#eligibility: No Deal Response; More States Create Bills; Arizona Responds
Thursday, January 21, 2010 Update:
Commenter “slcraig” received the following response from sources in Arizona via email:
“To: SL Craig
Thank you so much for your great efforts to assist us in our understanding(s) as again evidenced by the detail of what you wrote below.
In my prepared statement which will be delivered before the committee(s) of the Az. Legislature, I do cite Vattel and the four Supreme Court cases that both you and the Post & Email (which I have mostly read) have mentioned. However, your summaries of them below are so precise and succinct that understandings become even easier.
I think the biggest matter you have raised for us is whether or not to go more than “halfway” as you put it and place the actual definition of natural born citizen directly into our proposed legislation HB2441
—-
Back on Friday, January 8, Georgia GOP Representative and gubernatorial candidate Nathan Deal had sent a letter to the President, presumably to ask him about his birth certificate (to date, the actual content of that letter is still unknown).
Today, at a University of Georgia gubernatorial debate, Mr. Deal downplayed both the letter and the entire eligibility question. From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:
– The next shot came from state Rep. Austin Scott of Tifton, who said it was “childish” to question President Barack Obama’s birth certificate. That, of course, was aimed at U.S. Rep. Nathan Deal of Gainesville, who has written a letter to the White House on that very same topic.
Deal responded that he had no interest in Obama’s birth certificate, and that his letter was “not an issue in the governor’s race.” The congressman said his letter only asked Obama to “tell me where I can refer the people” who are asking him questions.
Obama had not answered, he noted.
The Athens Banner-Herald reported more specifics from the Congressman:
Deal, who represents North Georgia in Congress, sent Obama a letter in December asking him to address lingering concerns that he actually was born in Kenya and thus is constitutionally barred from being president.
“I think that is a reasonable proposition, and certainly something I think the president should respond to, although at this point, he has not,” Deal said.
Deal said he was responding to constituents’ questions, and the letter should not be an issue in a state-level campaign.
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At the State level, Arizona Republican State Representative Judy Burges and 39 other State Legislators had filed a candidate eligibility bill for consideration of the 2010 Legislature. Now, as WorldNetDaily reports, several other States are also considering various eligibility initiatives:
The demand for documentation of Barack Obama’s eligibility to occupy the Oval Office is surging, with lawmakers in several states now working on legislation that could be used to require future presidential candidates to reveal precisely how they are qualified under the U.S. Constitution’s demand for a “natural born citizen.”
WND already has reported on a bill co-sponsored by some three dozen lawmakers in Arizona who want to require candidates not only to submit the information, but state officials to independently verify the accuracy.
Bill sponsor Rep. Judy Burges, R-Skull Valley, told WND she already has started getting questions from other states who want details about the proposal.
A separate proposal has been created by a freedom of information action group in New York state, and now the National Conference of State Legislatures, which monitors and tabulates the work of legislative bodies, confirms through its database that several other plans are in the works.
Some of the proposals are very clear even without the full text. In New Hampshire, for example, a pending plan would require “certified copies of birth certificates for nominees for president and vice president.”
Others are a little more oblique. In Georgia, for example, lawmakers propose a bill “relating to procedures for qualification of candidates generally, so as to require each candidate for public office to be in compliance with certain disclosure requirements.”
There is no definitive word on what that would mean to presidential candidates.
An Indiana proposal is equally unclear, because it “authorizes a challenge to a candidate’s eligibility to seek an office to be filed by a registered voter of the jurisdiction conducting the election.” It could apply only to local elections.
In Virginia, a summary says the proposal “provides that candidates shall provide evidence of their qualifications for office to have their names printed on the ballot. The State Board of Elections shall provide a list of acceptable forms of evidence.”
And in the New York state plan proposed by a freedom of information organization to state lawmakers would provide that “an individual seeking placement on the New York State’s election ballot(s) for the office of president or vice president of the United States must present proof of eligibility, as per requirements that are stated in Article 2, section 1, paragraph 5 of the U.S. Constitution.”
WND followed up on legislator thoughts regarding the Arizona bill:
In Arizona, state Sen. Sylvia Allen, R-Snowflake, said the controversy over Obama and his birth certificate has raised questions.
“It just makes sense and will stop any controversy in the future to just show you are a natural born citizen,” she told the Arizona Capitol Times.
If states start adopting such election requirements, their laws possibly could have an impact similar to federal legislation, since the information submitted to meet the requirements presumably would be public.
As referenced, above, the Database of Election Reform Legislation is relatively simple to use in looking up bills. Go to the link and then select “Candidates-Qualifications for Office” in the “Subtopic” multi-select form.
The New York proposition reads as follows:
The Accountability Bill
A Bill To Be Entitled
New York State Presidential Candidate Qualification Verification
Accountability To NYS Citizens Act1 Section 1: An individual seeking placement (ISP) on New York State’s election ballot(s) for the
2 office of President or Vice President of the United States must present proof of eligibility, as per
3 requirements that are stated in Article 2, section 1, paragraph 5 of the U.S. Constitution.
4 A) Hard-copy proof is to be submitted to the New York State (NYS) Board of Elections
5 Executive Director(s) office.
6 B) Determination of age, natural born citizenship and past fourteen years residency is by
7 information on or within an individual’s official birth certificate, school and work records, social
8 security information, documentation of international travel history that the ISP knows of to
9 the best of his/her ability and his/her past seven years of tax records.
10 (1) Written and signed permission by an ISP must be granted to the NYS Board of Elections
11 Executive Director(s) office to obtain proof of documents submitted to its office from various
12 sources listed within the documents.
13 C) The NYS Board of Elections Executive Director(s) office is to make its determination
14 within four weeks from the date of an individual’s full submission of documents, confirmation of
15 such full submission by the ISP and his/her signed statement, granting the office
16 permission to obtain proof of documents submitted to its office, as per Section 1 B (1).
17 D) With the exclusion of social security numbers, contained on documents, all pertinent
18 information obtained and pertinent findings that are obtained from such documents of
19 an ISP who is approved are to be made available to the public for viewing, in order for
20 the office’s approval to be enacted and the ISP to be placed on New York State’s ballot(s),
21 pending the fulfillment(s) of other current and future New York State requirement(s).
22 (1) An ISP must first view the information and findings of the NYS Board of Elections
23 Executive Director(s) office that it deems pertinent and approve such findings to be made
24 public, in order for such to be made available to the public for viewing.
25 E) Compliance with this act and the burden of proof of eligibility is fully on the ISP.
26 F) Disputes are to be handled through the New York State courts, with all legalities applicable.
27 Section 2: This act will be instituted in the State of New York.
28 Section 3: This act is to be instituted on or before November 1, 2010.
Written by Debra J.M. Smith – September 17, 2009
References: The U.S. Constitution
Charles Kerchner, lead Plaintiff in Kerchner v. Obama, has announced that attorney Mario Apuzzo has filed an Opening Brief with the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals:
Kerchner v Obama & Congress – U.S. 3rd Circuit Appeal – Appellant’s Opening Brief – Filed 19 Jan 2010
Attorney Mario Apuzzo has filed the Appellant’s Opening Brief in the Kerchner et al v Obama et al lawsuit appeal. The Brief was filed with the U.S. 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia PA. See this link to download and read it:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/25461132/Kerchner-v-Obama-Appeal-Appellant-s-Opening-Brief-FILED-2010-01-19We look forward to the U.S. 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals reviewing this matter and ordering a trial on the merits as to the Article II Constitutional eligibility of Obama to serve as President and Commander-in-Chief of the military.
We say Obama is not a “natural born Citizen” of the USA and thus is not eligible to serve in the Oval Office. Obama is a Usurper and must be removed to preserve the integrity and fundamental law of our Constitution and our Republic.
“We the People” will be heard on this matter! As the People in Massachusetts have demonstrated, “We the People” are the Sovereigns in this country and the Constitution is the fundamental law of our nation, not Obama or Congress. We will not be silenced. The chair Obama sits in in the Oval Office is not his throne. It is the People’s seat too. And Obama despite all his obfuscations to date must prove to Constitutional standards that he is eligible to sit in that seat.
This is not going to go away until Obama stops hiding ALL his hidden and sealed early life documents and provides original copies of them to a controlling legal authority and reveals his true legal identity from the time he was born until the time he ran for President. Obama at birth was born British and a dual-citizen. He holds and has held multiple citizenship during his life-time. He’s a Citizenship chameleon as the moment and time in his life suited him and he is not a “natural born Citizen” with sole allegiance andUnity of Citizenship at Birth to the USA as is required per the Constitution per the intent of our founders and the meaning of the term “natural born Citizen” to Constitutional standards.
Attorney Apuzzo will comment more on this Appellant’s Brief in the next few days.
Charles F. Kerchner, Jr.
Commander USNR (Retired)
Lead Plaintiff
Kerchner v Obama & Congress
http://www.protectourliberty.org
See the following links regarding the eligibility saga:
- The background:
- The questions:
-Phil
Subscriptions -=- Twitter: @trsol -=- email: phil [at] therightsideoflife [dot] com










Linda – in case you missed my comment on the other thread, I will repeat it here for you. I think this closes the case and I think you owe me an apology:
I have now received a response from the South Dakota Dept of Health (impressively quick response), confirming you made up the birth certificate statutes you talked about.
Here is my email:
Dear Sir/Madam
I would very much appreciate it if you could clarify the situation regarding the birth of a child in South Dakota to non-US citizens.
1 When applying for a birth certificate for a child born in SD, it is necessary for one or both parents to be a US citizen?
2 Does a child born to non US citizens have exactly the same citizenship status as a child born to one or more US citizens?
3 Do you differentiate in any way in the documentation required or the birth certificate issued, when the child has one, two or no citizen parents.
Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify this issue for me.
………………………………….
Here is the response:
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:54:40 -0600 [08:54:40 EST]
From: Susan.Wayrynen@state.sd.us
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (redacted)
Subject: birth certificate
Your questions regarding children born in the US to non US citizens:
1) no
2) yes
3) no
The status of parent’s citizenship is not addressed in our laws;
therefore, a child born to anyone in SD is considered a US citizen.
Also, our laws are very specific regarding what is required for ordering a birth record and, again, citizenship is not addressed. I hope this answers your questions. Please contact me if you have any further questions.
Susan
SD Vital Records
………..
Linda that is pretty conclusive refutation isn’t it? Are you now ready to apologise and admit you made it all up?
bystander,
I don’t remove threads; I kick rude commenters who are too uncivil off my site
-Phil
bystander,
I already know why the opposition to questioning Mr. Obama’s eligibility as President laugh of folks such as myself. Rudeness, meanness and ugliness, simply put.
There have been so many “armchair attorneys” — and a few real ones — who have given so many interpretations of the law that it’s almost an issue that one person’s facts are another person’s opinion.
Here’s the bottom line. SCOTUS has never made a ruling on American citizenship of any sort with respect to presidential eligibility. Most discussions on this blog and other sites have commenters regurgitating, ad nauseum, their opinion that the high Court has done so when, in fact, it has not.
So, as I have just said, the only other thing that many opposition commenters fall back on is pejoratives.
-Phil
Bry – I predict Linda is going to have very heavy work commitments until Phil saves her by removing this thread.
No, I spent 5 minutes searching Lexis and Westlaw for SD statutes. The SD site was much more difficult to navigate, and Lexis contains just the text of statutes.
I don’t consider myself an expert in SD vital records statutes, but I did skim through the entire section regarding birth certificates, and nothing came close.
But please, feel free to educate me. Tell me what SD statute requires that newborns in SD will not receive birth certificates unless both parents produce naturalization records.
OK Linda.
I have now spent two hours trawling the South Dakota statutes. I have read every statute that shows up on a “birth certificate” word search. For completeness I also searched “birth”, “parent nationality”, “non-citizen parent”, “citizen” and many more. There is nothing in these statutes that supports your claim that one parent must be a citizen. Nothing Linda. For an example here is the statute dealing with the documentation required to register the birth of a child born outside of an institution. This is the category of birth that requires the highest burden off proof:
http://legis.state.sd.us/rules/DisplayRule.aspx?Rule=44:09:02:13
Please read it Linda and show me where it says parents have to provide anything relating to their citizenship status. The father isn’t even mentioned in the statute – the mother only has to prove she was a state resident at the time of birth.
Now are you going to laugh this off – or will you finally admit you lied?
Linda says:
January 28, 2010 at 2:01 am
ROFL, qwerty spent a whole 5 min searching the Sd state site. This just proves how little these drones put into their efforts to learn the law, but they comment as if they are experts in it.
As far as my reply, it was completely coherent, but since you only spent 5 min on my state site, I am not surprised you have such difficulty understnding US laws.
Thanks for the bedtime chuckle. I can now go to sleep with a smile.
……..
Spoke to soon – here she is again not backing up her claims.
Linda do you think we are 5 years old and don’t understand what you are doing? If you had the statutes you would be waving them from the rooftops because they would prove your theory. But since spending 5 minutes on research isn’t sufficient to get you to respond – tell me how long is. I will volunteer to spend up to 10 hours searching the South Dakota legislation – if I don’t find it will you then admit you made the whole thing up?
I think it is safe to assume that Linda has retreated to lick her wounds, and it is now finally dawning on her that her 2 citizen parents theory is nothing more than a fantasy. I am expecting a deluge of new 18th century gibberish in 4..3….2….
Just imagine – the law requires two citizen parents but has no way of establishing that because every single state forgot to ask for the parents nationality on their birth certificates! You couldn’t make it up …. except that the birthers did. And they wonder why we laugh at them.
ROFL, qwerty spent a whole 5 min searching the Sd state site. This just proves how little these drones put into their efforts to learn the law, but they comment as if they are experts in it.
As far as my reply, it was completely coherent, but since you only spent 5 min on my state site, I am not surprised you have such difficulty understnding US laws.
Thanks for the bedtime chuckle. I can now go to sleep with a smile.
Linda, I remember you saying you were from South Dakota. I’ve spent about 5 minutes searching through the SD statutes on birth certificates, and there is absolutely nothing about requiring naturalization papers. Are you seriously suggesting that a hospital will refuse to issue a birth certificate to a newborn in your state unless both the parents are US citizens?
If this wasn’t completely incoherent I’d attempt a response. This paragraph doesn’t even make sense.