261 thoughts on “#eligibility: No Deal Response; More States Create Bills; Arizona Responds”

  1. Linda – in case you missed my comment on the other thread, I will repeat it here for you. I think this closes the case and I think you owe me an apology:

    I have now received a response from the South Dakota Dept of Health (impressively quick response), confirming you made up the birth certificate statutes you talked about.

    Here is my email:

    Dear Sir/Madam

    I would very much appreciate it if you could clarify the situation regarding the birth of a child in South Dakota to non-US citizens.

    1 When applying for a birth certificate for a child born in SD, it is necessary for one or both parents to be a US citizen?

    2 Does a child born to non US citizens have exactly the same citizenship status as a child born to one or more US citizens?

    3 Do you differentiate in any way in the documentation required or the birth certificate issued, when the child has one, two or no citizen parents.

    Thank you very much for taking the time to clarify this issue for me.

    ………………………………….

    Here is the response:

    Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 07:54:40 -0600 [08:54:40 EST]
    From: Susan.Wayrynen@state.sd.us
    To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX (redacted)
    Subject: birth certificate

    Your questions regarding children born in the US to non US citizens:

    1) no
    2) yes
    3) no

    The status of parent’s citizenship is not addressed in our laws;
    therefore, a child born to anyone in SD is considered a US citizen.
    Also, our laws are very specific regarding what is required for ordering a birth record and, again, citizenship is not addressed. I hope this answers your questions. Please contact me if you have any further questions.

    Susan
    SD Vital Records

    ………..

    Linda that is pretty conclusive refutation isn’t it? Are you now ready to apologise and admit you made it all up?

  2. Bry – I predict Linda is going to have very heavy work commitments until Phil saves her by removing this thread.

    1. bystander,

      Bry – I predict Linda is going to have very heavy work commitments until Phil saves her by removing this thread.

      I don’t remove threads; I kick rude commenters who are too uncivil off my site :)

      -Phil

  3. ROFL, qwerty spent a whole 5 min searching the Sd state site. This just proves how little these drones put into their efforts to learn the law, but they comment as if they are experts in it.

    No, I spent 5 minutes searching Lexis and Westlaw for SD statutes. The SD site was much more difficult to navigate, and Lexis contains just the text of statutes.

    I don’t consider myself an expert in SD vital records statutes, but I did skim through the entire section regarding birth certificates, and nothing came close.

    But please, feel free to educate me. Tell me what SD statute requires that newborns in SD will not receive birth certificates unless both parents produce naturalization records.

  4. OK Linda.

    I have now spent two hours trawling the South Dakota statutes. I have read every statute that shows up on a “birth certificate” word search. For completeness I also searched “birth”, “parent nationality”, “non-citizen parent”, “citizen” and many more. There is nothing in these statutes that supports your claim that one parent must be a citizen. Nothing Linda. For an example here is the statute dealing with the documentation required to register the birth of a child born outside of an institution. This is the category of birth that requires the highest burden off proof:

    http://legis.state.sd.us/rules/DisplayRule.aspx?Rule=44:09:02:13

    Please read it Linda and show me where it says parents have to provide anything relating to their citizenship status. The father isn’t even mentioned in the statute – the mother only has to prove she was a state resident at the time of birth.

    Now are you going to laugh this off – or will you finally admit you lied?

  5. Linda says:
    January 28, 2010 at 2:01 am

    ROFL, qwerty spent a whole 5 min searching the Sd state site. This just proves how little these drones put into their efforts to learn the law, but they comment as if they are experts in it.

    As far as my reply, it was completely coherent, but since you only spent 5 min on my state site, I am not surprised you have such difficulty understnding US laws.

    Thanks for the bedtime chuckle. I can now go to sleep with a smile.
    ……..

    Spoke to soon – here she is again not backing up her claims.

    Linda do you think we are 5 years old and don’t understand what you are doing? If you had the statutes you would be waving them from the rooftops because they would prove your theory. But since spending 5 minutes on research isn’t sufficient to get you to respond – tell me how long is. I will volunteer to spend up to 10 hours searching the South Dakota legislation – if I don’t find it will you then admit you made the whole thing up?

  6. I think it is safe to assume that Linda has retreated to lick her wounds, and it is now finally dawning on her that her 2 citizen parents theory is nothing more than a fantasy. I am expecting a deluge of new 18th century gibberish in 4..3….2….

    Just imagine – the law requires two citizen parents but has no way of establishing that because every single state forgot to ask for the parents nationality on their birth certificates! You couldn’t make it up …. except that the birthers did. And they wonder why we laugh at them.

    1. bystander,

      …And they wonder why we laugh at them.

      I already know why the opposition to questioning Mr. Obama’s eligibility as President laugh of folks such as myself. Rudeness, meanness and ugliness, simply put.

      There have been so many “armchair attorneys” — and a few real ones — who have given so many interpretations of the law that it’s almost an issue that one person’s facts are another person’s opinion.

      Here’s the bottom line. SCOTUS has never made a ruling on American citizenship of any sort with respect to presidential eligibility. Most discussions on this blog and other sites have commenters regurgitating, ad nauseum, their opinion that the high Court has done so when, in fact, it has not.

      So, as I have just said, the only other thing that many opposition commenters fall back on is pejoratives.

      -Phil

  7. ROFL, qwerty spent a whole 5 min searching the Sd state site. This just proves how little these drones put into their efforts to learn the law, but they comment as if they are experts in it.

    As far as my reply, it was completely coherent, but since you only spent 5 min on my state site, I am not surprised you have such difficulty understnding US laws.

    Thanks for the bedtime chuckle. I can now go to sleep with a smile.

  8. Now, when I check the latest information required by my state, one requirement is parents who were born out of country must provide a copy of their naturalization papers.

    Linda, I remember you saying you were from South Dakota. I’ve spent about 5 minutes searching through the SD statutes on birth certificates, and there is absolutely nothing about requiring naturalization papers. Are you seriously suggesting that a hospital will refuse to issue a birth certificate to a newborn in your state unless both the parents are US citizens?

    Yes, I cited from US code which is code for those not born to 2 US citizens on US soil. They are laws made by Congress and a ‘NBC’ needs no law. That is the definition per Congress who wrote & adopted the 14th, not some fisticious one I made up. I’m not into fiction, have always been a real life, no holds barred, tell the truth no matter how much you hate it, gal.

    If this wasn’t completely incoherent I’d attempt a response. This paragraph doesn’t even make sense.

  9. Linda you said this:

    How can a non citizen claim US citizneship for thier child, when the current law states atleast 1 parent must be a US citizen unless the child is found and no parents are able to be located aka abandoned baby.

    Now, when I check the latest information required by my state, one requirement is parents who were born out of country must provide a copy of their naturalization papers.

    ……….

    You can’t back it up – don’t tell me I know where to look for it – you made the claim, you back it up. And it certainly isn’t where you said it is. Plus stop repeating the outright lie that I have ever claimed any expertise of detailed knowledge whatsoever of US law. Show me the statute Linda or have the good grace to admit you made it up.

  10. byst: A simple link will do. Still waiting

    As I stated, its Title 8 of US code. Since you say you are so familiar and learned in our laws, I expect you know where to find them.

    byst: Q – I have a suspicion Linda might have had the sense to gracefully withdraw from this thread before she makes any more unsupportable claims.

    ROFL, you wish. Some people actually have to work for a living and just because we own the business doesn’t mean we can always play whenever it is convenient for you.

    qwerty: Linda attempted to cite 8 USC 1401(a), using her completely incorrect interpretation of “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”

    Congress was only vested with immigration & naturalization, hence Title 8 of the US code, so…

    Yes, I cited from US code which is code for those not born to 2 US citizens on US soil. They are laws made by Congress and a ‘NBC’ needs no law. That is the definition per Congress who wrote & adopted the 14th, not some fisticious one I made up. I’m not into fiction, have always been a real life, no holds barred, tell the truth no matter how much you hate it, gal.

    You should try it more often, especially when you try to explain WKA and state the SCOTUS delared WKA to be a NBC, when in fact they did not.

  11. Q – I have a suspicion Linda might have had the sense to gracefully withdraw from this thread before she makes any more unsupportable claims. It is quite funny that she seems to have no idea at all how us furriners function in the US, and jumps to bizarre conclusions.

  12. Can’t wait to read the statute Linda – where did you find it? A simple link will do.

    Linda attempted to cite 8 USC 1401(a), using her completely incorrect interpretation of “subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”

    Apparently she doesn’t realize that if that’s how the government interpreted that statute, citizenship would be retroactively removed from millions of US citizens. Linda is apparently also unaware that it is in no way unusual for green card holders or immigrants in the US on work visas to have a social security number.

    Linda is unable to cite a single judge, member of Congress, current law professor or constitutional scholar who agrees with her viewpoint that the child of a US citizen born on US soil is not a natural born citizen.

  13. byst: Then you are losing. You continually lie – poor character trait.

    No, I was merely stating a fact.

    No Linda you haven’t stated any facts. This whole thread has been one long epic fail for you as all your claims have whither under scrutiny. You lied about the birth certificates, you lied about SS numbers, and now you appear to be lying about those statutes and laws in your deep red state. Because you have yet to produce them, despite appearing to refer to them just a few hours ago. Are they with the super secret kenyan Government document you lost the other day?

    Really Linda this must be humiliating for you – why don’t you just come clean and admit you thought it was the law, but you never checked, and now you know you are wrong? I might respect that.

    Plus I have to say, for someone who prides themselves on their researching skills, your responses on the SS stuff were pathetic.

  14. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 3:35 am

    My children are nb citizens because they were born on US soil. Now please back up the following claims:

    US law states 1 parent has to be a US citizen, go read the statutes

    …………………………

    Can’t wait to read the statute Linda – where did you find it? A simple link will do. Still waiting ………..

  15. No Linda – I wanted to annoy you. I did. I am pleased.

    I am not interested in your misinterpretation of the constitution. Living in the US means you are “under the jurisdiction of”. Now where is that statute you claimed to have? Why is it taking you so long to produce it? Surely you had it in front of you when you claimed:
    ……….
    How can a non citizen claim US citizneship for thier child, when the current law states atleast 1 parent must be a US citizen unless the child is found and no parents are able to be located aka abandoned baby.

    Now, when I check the latest information required by my state, one requirement is parents who were born out of country must provide a copy of their naturalization papers.
    ………..

    You said you checked the latest information – where is it?

  16. Linda says: I could care less how this Ed dude is. Does that make you some sort of special person that is better than everyone else? In our country, status does not make the person, character does.

    ……………………………
    byst: Then you are losing. You continually lie – poor character trait.

    No, I was merely stating a fact.

    You thought by citing some dudes name and the fact you bypassed immigration and was whisked off in a limo gave more weight to your argument.

    it only shows your arrogance towards Americans & American law, especially conservative Americans.

  17. bystander,

    Do you not know what ‘subject to the jurisdition’ means. US law does not automatically confer citizenship.

    If US laws were the same as Englands as statist such as yourself claim, then why are US children born overseas not automatically granted US citizenship unless meeting sertain criteria and even then, the parents must fill out legal forms to gain that status legally.

    Title 8

    (a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;this is verbatum of the 14th Amendment. You must also know that according to our constitution, Congress only held the power to natualize emmigrant

    Senator Reverdy Johnson of Maryland (the lone Democrat among the Senators quoted; all the others were Republicans in this Reconstruction Senate) was less certain than his colleagues that the proposed amendment clearly excluded Indians not taxed, but wished to clarify how American citizenship was created. He accepted that birthright citizenship for the children of U.S. citizens was natural and the appropriate norm, but worried that the proposed amendment might be read too broadly:

    Now, all this amendment provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign power – for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us – shall be considered as citizens of the United States. … I am, however, by no means prepared to say, as I think I have intimated before, that being born within the United States, independent of any new constitutional provision on the subject, creates the relation of citizen to the United States.

    Johnson went on to quote from the Civil Rights Act of 1866, which had just passed. He considered that its wording better expressed what the Citizenship Clause was meant to achieve: “That all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign Power, excluding Indians not taxed, are hereby declared to be citizens.” None of his colleagues, not least Senator Howard, the Citizenship Clause’s proponent, disagreed.

    more from title 8:

    (b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
    (c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
    (d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
    (e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
    (f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;

    § 1433. Children born and residing outside the United States; conditions for acquiring certificate of citizenship
    How Current is This? (a) Application by citizen parents; requirements
    A parent who is a citizen of the United States (or, if the citizen parent has died during the preceding 5 years, a citizen grandparent or citizen legal guardian) may apply for naturalization on behalf of a child born outside of the United States who has not acquired citizenship automatically under section 1431 of this title. The Attorney General shall issue a certificate of citizenship to such applicant upon proof, to the satisfaction of the Attorney General, that the following conditions have been fulfilled:
    (1) At least one parent (or, at the time of his or her death, was) is a citizen of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization.
    (2) The United States citizen parent—
    (A) has (or, at the time of his or her death, had) been physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years; or
    (B) has (or, at the time of his or her death, had) a citizen parent who has been physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.
    (3) The child is under the age of eighteen years.
    (4) The child is residing outside of the United States in the legal and physical custody of the applicant (or, if the citizen parent is deceased, an individual who does not object to the application).
    (5) The child is temporarily present in the United States pursuant to a lawful admission, and is maintaining such lawful status.
    (b) Attainment of citizenship status; receipt of certificate
    Upon approval of the application (which may be filed from abroad) and, except as provided in the last sentence of section 1448 (a) of this title, upon taking and subscribing before an officer of the Service within the United States to the oath of allegiance required by this chapter of an applicant for naturalization, the child shall become a citizen of the United States and shall be furnished by the Attorney General with a certificate of citizenship.

    § 1431. Children born outside the United States and residing permanently in the United States; conditions under which citizenship automatically acquired
    How Current is This? (a) A child born outside of the United States automatically becomes a citizen of the United States when all of the following conditions have been fulfilled:
    (1) At least one parent of the child is a citizen of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization.
    (2) The child is under the age of eighteen years.
    (3) The child is residing in the United States in the legal and physical custody of the citizen parent pursuant to a lawful admission for permanent residence.
    (b) Subsection (a) of this section shall apply to a child adopted by a United States citizen parent if the child satisfies the requirements applicable to adopted children under section 1101 (b)(1) of this title.

    In every instance, atleast 1 parent must be a US citizen, so where do you fit in? If a US citizen abroad does not automatically gain US citizenship, then why would anyone think give precedent to tamporary visitors whos babies are by chance born on our soil.

    Now, if subject to the jurisdiction meant merely born on soil, then there would have never been any exclusion for Indians that were also born on the soil now would there have been. They held allegiance to a foreign sovereignty aka Indian nation.

    “Subject to the Jurisdiction = complete allegiance, both locally & politically. There has been no amendment to our constitution(though there have been several attempts in the past 4 decades) therefore, until there is, your children are NOT lawful US citizens and should they be brought into a US court of law, a very good case could be made to strip them of that staus you think they hold. There are current cases pending all over the US. it is only a matter of time before we restore order under the rule of US LAW.

  18. Linda – I’m off to walk my dogs now – I look forward to reading the mythical statue on my return.

  19. Linda: I already have. Just because a govt agency turns a blind eye to the law, doesn’t make it law.

    …………….

    Oh really, this is just fantasy now. Immigration is ahuge issue in the uS, agreed? It is one of the main policy planks of the GOP, agreed?

    So where are the conservative and republican politicians and lawyers on this issue. They want to change thehlaw – they are not claiming it is simply being over looked. I can’t believe you are continuing with this ridiculous charade. Now show me the statute.

  20. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 3:37 am

    I could care less how this Ed dude is. Does that make you some sort of special person that is better than everyone else? In our country, status does not make the person, character does.

    ……………………………
    Then you are losing. You continually lie – poor character trait.

  21. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 3:43 am

    Can you explain why my children hold US passport if they are not citizens?

    Because the parents provided thier working SSI#’s on the form. Did you tell the state officials when you filled out the forms that you were not US citizens, but merely UK residents on work visas?

    I already have. Just because a govt agency turns a blind eye to the law, doesn’t make it law.

    ……………..

    Which state officials are you talking about? The reason birth certificate don’t ask for nationality of the parents is because it is irrelevant. This is the whole purpose of this exchange. Do you think it is an over sigth that throughout the USA no birth certificate asks this if as you say, it is a prerequisite for citizenship – and that nobody other than you has ever pointed it out and tried to rectify it?

    Is it finlaly dawning on you that you are wrong. Now show me that statute.

  22. Can you explain why my children hold US passport if they are not citizens?

    Because the parents provided thier working SSI#’s on the form. Did you tell the state officials when you filled out the forms that you were not US citizens, but merely UK residents on work visas?

    As I have said: Just because a govt agency turns a blind eye to the law, doesn’t make it law.

  23. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 3:35 am

    My children are nb citizens because they were born on US soil. Now please back up the following claims:

    US law states 1 parent has to be a US citizen, go read the statutes

    ……………………………

    No the burden is on you – you prove your case by showing me the statutes. I already know I’m right – the passport is sitting on my desk as I type.

  24. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 3:33 am

    Original Social Security Card
    To apply for an original card, you must provide at least two documents to prove age, identity, and U.S.
    citizenship or current lawful, work-authorized immigration status. If you are not a U.S. citizen and do not
    have DHS work authorization, you must prove that you have a valid non-work reason for requesting a
    card. See page 2 for an explanation of acceptable documents.

    ________________________________________________________

    So you also worked while here in the US.

    No, I had a valid reason. I had a valid visa. It was quite a long time ago, but I think the reason I needed it was to open a US bank account and get US credit cards. If you don’t believe I have one I can email it to you.

    By the way, this exchange isn’t doing much to burnish you reputation as a researcher.

  25. I could care less how this Ed dude is. Does that make you some sort of special person that is better than everyone else? In our country, status does not make the person, character does.

  26. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 3:29 am

    So you checked the box, “legal alien allowed to work”. Still doesn’t make your children eligible to be president, let alone US citizens. Your SSI records are proof that you were not here with intentions to naturalize as full fledge US citizens.

    …………………………………………

    You don’t have to intend to naturalise Linda. In fact work visas are for a specified time precisely to prevent it. If you want to naturalise you have to go through various pother processes. Can you explain why my children hold US passport if they are not citizens?

  27. My children are nb citizens because they were born on US soil. Now please back up the following claims:

    US law states 1 parent has to be a US citizen, go read the statutes

  28. Original Social Security Card
    To apply for an original card, you must provide at least two documents to prove age, identity, and U.S.
    citizenship or current lawful, work-authorized immigration status. If you are not a U.S. citizen and do not
    have DHS work authorization, you must prove that you have a valid non-work reason for requesting a
    card. See page 2 for an explanation of acceptable documents.

    ________________________________________________________

    So you also worked while here in the US.

  29. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 3:24 am

    read it wrong, my mistake.

    but again, acquiring a US SSI# does not make one a citizen and therefore eligible to pass US citizenship onto the child.

    …………………………………………….

    Linda I’m embarrassed for you. Of course having a SS card doesn’t have anything whatsoever to do with citizenship. My children are nb citizens because they were born on US soil. Now please back up the following claims:

    Linda: How can a non citizen claim US citizneship for thier child, when the current law states atleast 1 parent must be a US citizen unless the child is found and no parents are able to be located aka abandoned baby.

    Now, when I check the latest information required by my state, one requirement is parents who were born out of country must provide a copy of their naturalization papers.

  30. So you checked the box, “legal alien allowed to work”. Still doesn’t make your children eligible to be president, let alone US citizens. Your SSI records are proof that you were not here with intentions to naturalize as full fledge US citizens.

  31. Linda – from the first page of your link:

    How do I apply for a Social Security number and card?

    Unless you are a noncitizen who wants to work in the United States, you probably do not need a Social Security number.

    Generally, only noncitizens authorized to work in the United States by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) can get a Social Security number.

    ………..

    Linda let me explain this for you really simply. When you go to the US for work you get a working visa and a green card sponsored by your employer (Edmund Saffra – google him). You don’t just turn up on a flight and expect to be admitted. The paperwork is all in order before you travel, issued by the US embassy in London, and when you arrive you trot along to the local SS office and present it. They then issue you with a SS card. Oddly enough there is no box asking if you are usurping the system,, because you aren’t. The US needs the expertise of foreign workers, especially in banking. There are many thousand of British bankers working in the States – it is so ordinary I can’t imagine why you think it is against the law.

  32. read it wrong, my mistake.

    but again, acquiring a US SSI# does not make one a citizen and therefore eligible to pass US citizenship onto the child.

  33. You were not required by law to provide SSI# if you were an alien resident with no intentions to remain & naturalize.

    The SSI gov page is very clear on that

  34. Having a SSI# does NOT make one a citizen, therefore without knowing the specifics as to how & why bystander got her SSI#, I can not further weigh in on this topic except to say that according to US law, it is not the NORM to issue SSI3’s to non-citizens.

    So bystander, if you want to keep holding to your claims, you might want to fess up as to just how you obtained a legitimate US social security number because according to what I am reading, what I have been saying all along still stands.

    Did you apply stating you had intentions to emmigrate to usurp our system?

    http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10096.html

  35. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 2:55 am

    Furnishing parent(s) Social Security Number(s) (SSNs) is required by Federal Law, 42 USC 405(c)(section 205(c) of the Social Security Act).

    Linda : Will you stop repeating back to me things I have already explained to you as if it is some kind of victory? I told you that was on the birth certificate two days ago. We did supply our SS numbers. I referred to the LAST 3 paragraphs and asked for evidence – can you do that?

  36. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 2:57 am

    byst,

    So you are saying that you are also a US citizen and you file annual income tax forms with the US.

    No Linda – I am a UK citizen as is my husband. If you earn money in the US you file US tax returns. So when my husband was working in the US, we paid US income taxes. We also had to pay UK taxes, but the US employer in these situations usually equalises the tab. If we rented out our US property we would pay US tax on the income even though we live in the UK – even so we obviously pay property taxes in the US. We still filled out a US tax return for many years after returning to the UK, because once you are in the system they never let go of you!

  37. Linda this is just for you – hold both sides of your head to prevent explosion.

    I first immigrated to the US as a three week old baby – still have my green card that allowed me to do so. Ironically, my parents held off moving until after I was born in order for me NOT to become a US citizen – so the process was well understood back in 1958.

    I went back for the third time when I was 7 months pregnant. This is the bit that might cause an explosion. Not only was I not prevented from doing so in order to avoid what you like to call an anchor baby – we were actually met on the tarmac and didn’t even have to wait in line at immigration! We were whisked to a side office, 5 minutes later we were collecting our luggage and off to our limo. Mind you having Edmund Saffra personally arrange your immigration does help – I recommend it to anyone!

  38. Furnishing parent(s) Social Security Number(s) (SSNs) is required by Federal Law, 42 USC 405(c)(section 205(c) of the Social Security Act).

  39. Linda says:
    January 27, 2010 at 2:40 am

    byst,

    Another question.

    Do your children hold US social security numbers and if so, do you as parents pay into the system for them?

    Of course they do. When living in the US we paid US taxes. I see you really don’t understand this at all do you? Perhaps living in the reddest state in the US you have never even met a foreigner! You should try and travel more – it broadens the mind.

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