9/11 Terrorists to Have Criminal Case; Holder to Graham: “It Depends”

400 responses to 9/11 Terrorists to Have Criminal Case; Holder to Graham: “It Depends”

1. On November 14th, 2009 at 8:04 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/6501604/Barack-Obamas-father-beat-me-claims-half-brother.html

   Barack Obama’s father beat me, claims half-brother

   President Barack Obama’s half-brother Mark Ndesandjo has claimed their father physically abused him as a child. Mr Ndesandjo, who lives in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen, is the son of Barack Obama senior and his third wife, Ruth Nidesand, an American.

   In a rare appearance to promote his semi-autobiographical novel, Nairobi to Shenzhen, Mr Ndesandjo said: “My father beat me. He beat my mother. You just do not do that.

   “I remember in my house, I would hear the screams. I would hear my mum’s pain. As a child, I could not protect her,” he said, breaking into tears.

   “I could not remember any good things about my father. My skin had turned hard emotionally for so many years.”

   President Barack Obama refers to Mr Ndesandjo simply as “my brother” and says he was the only uncontested heir after their Kenyan father died in a car crash in 1982.

   Mr Obama’s own mother separated from their father two years after he was born in Hawaii in 1961. Mr Obama senior went on to have at least six other children in Kenya.

   The president has written of his fatherless childhood in his book, Dreams of my Father. In it, he described a visit to Kenya to learn more about him, and described his father as a gifted man but an abusive alcoholic.

   “I knew that he was a drunk and showed no concern for his wife and children. That was enough,” he wrote.

   Until now, Mr Ndesandjo has refused to capitalise on his family connection and has maintained a low profile. He has declined to discuss his earliest memories of the president or describe their relationship over the years.

   However, he said on Wednesday that he hopes to meet his brother in Beijing when the president makes his first visit to China at the end of next week. “My plan is to introduce my wife to him. She is his biggest fan,” he said.

   (This brother is Jewish)
   http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?p=4259
   More information needed on Mark Okoth Obama Ndesandjo

   All that is “known” about this half-brother is that he was born in Kenya, the son of Barack Obama Sr., the same father as the president, and his father’s third wife, Ruth Nidesand, the daughter of Jewish-Lithuanian immigrants.

   I think we should do some more research and maybe just maybe it would be a good idea for Rev. Manning to invite him alongside Granny Obama. One never knows what could come from that. Obviously the usurper hasn’t been all that hot on meeting with him.

   - David Crockett

   Geir: this proves Obama is the Jewish Antichrist.
   Obama’s meeting his brother today.

   http://www.telegraph.co.uk/expat/6560654/Obama-to-meet-half-brother-on-China-visit.html

   Obama to meet half-brother on China visit
   US President Barack Obama hopes to meet his half-brother Mark Ndesandjo and his sister-in-law during his first official visit to China.

   Ndesandjo and his Chinese wife live in Shenzhen – a southern city neighbouring Hong Kong – and plan to fly to Beijing to meet his famous relative.

   “It will be the first time for Mark to introduce his wife to President Obama,” a spokeswoman for AmCham in South China said.

   Ndesandjo told China’s state-run Xinhua news agency that he wanted his wife, who is from the central eastern province of Henan, to meet the US president as “she is one of Obama’s loyal fans”.

   Ndesandjo, son of Obama’s late father and his third wife, Ruth Nidesand, also said that he was delighted that the president was taking the opportunity to see China for himself during his first visit to Asia.

   “I am very glad that he is coming here himself to experience Chinese culture,” he was quoted as saying.

   Having lived in China for seven years and speaking fluent Putonghua, Ndesandjo said at the launch of his first novel earlier this month that he hoped Obama would appreciate the importance Chinese people attach to family.

   “I would encourage not only my brother, President Obama, but also American people, [to understand] that China is about family. Family is a recurrent theme here,” he said in his first address to the media since Obama was elected last year.

   The half-brother, who reportedly runs a business consultancy in Shenzhen, last met Obama when he visited the United States during the presidential election.

   At the book launch earlier this month, Ndesandjo also spoke of his relationship with his abusive father and how Obama’s election victory helped him come to terms with his unhappy childhood.

   “My father beat me. He beat my mother. You just do not do that,” he said as tears ran down his cheeks.

   But he said his emotional hardness towards his family “peeled away” after he saw the hope in the eyes of Obama’s supporters on election night at Chicago’s Grant Park.

   Obama’s Kenyan father and American mother separated when Obama was just two and the president has spoken about the problems children face growing up with an absent father.

   Ndesandjo said he would publish his autobiography in the next few months.
2. On November 14th, 2009 at 8:23 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

   http://www.canadaeast.com/news/article/845913

   Obama’s half brother publishes novel that describes abusive father they shared

   GUANGZHOU, China – President Barack Obama’s half brother has broken his media silence to discuss his new novel – the semi-autobiographical story of an abusive parent patterned on their late father, the mostly absent figure Obama wrote about in his own memoir.

   THE ASSOCIATED PRESS/Vincent Yu
   In this Oct. 27, 2009, photo Mark Ndesandjo, one of President Barack Obama’s half-siblings, receives an interview from The Associated Press in Guangzhou, southern China.

   In his first interview, Mark Ndesandjo told The Associated Press that he wrote “Nairobi to Shenzhen” in part to raise awareness of domestic violence.

   “My father beat my mother and my father beat me, and you don’t do that,” said Ndesandjo, whose mother, Ruth Nidesand, was Barack Obama Sr.’s third wife. “It’s something which I think affected me for a long time, and it’s something that I’ve just recently come to terms with.”

   Like his novel’s main character, Ndesandjo had an American mother who is Jewish and who divorced his Kenyan father. The novel, which goes on sale Wednesday by the self-publishing company Aventine Press, is one of several books in the works by relatives of the president.

   President Obama’s parents separated two years after he was born in Hawaii in 1961. The senior Obama, a Kenyan exchange student, divorced the president’s mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, in 1964 and had at least six other children in his native Kenya.

   For the past seven years, Ndesandjo has been living in the booming southern Chinese city of Shenzhen, near Hong Kong, and has refused all interview requests until now.

   Ndesandjo, who said he attended Obama’s inauguration as a family guest, declined to discuss his earliest memories of the president or describe their relationship over the years. However, he said he plans to meet his brother in Beijing when the president makes his first visit to China on Nov. 15-18.

   “My plan is to introduce my wife to him. She is his biggest fan,” he said.

   Shortly after divorcing the president’s mother, Obama Sr. met Nidesand while studying as a graduate student at Harvard University. Nidesand returned with Obama Sr. to his native Kenya in 1965, where Mark and his brother David were born and grew up. David later died in a motorcycle accident.

   In Kenya, Obama Sr. also had four children with his first wife, Kezia, some of them while he was still married to Nidesand. Nidesand and Obama Sr. eventually divorced amid allegations of domestic abuse. Nidesand returned to the United States and later married a man whose surname Mark Ndesandjo took.

   Obama Sr. died in an automobile accident in 1982 at age 46.

   President Obama saw his father only once after his parents’ divorce, when he was 10 years old. In a best-selling memoir, “Dreams from My Father,” Obama wrote about his fatherless upbringing and search for identity.

   In it, Obama described a visit to Kenya to meet his half siblings and learn more about his father. While painting his father as abusive, he called Obama Sr. a gifted but erratic alcoholic who never lived up to his intellectual promise or his family responsibilities.

   Obama, in his book, also quotes Ndesandjo criticizing their father, saying, “I knew that he was a drunk and showed no concern for his wife and children. That was enough.”

   Ndesandjo, who is an American citizen, spent most of his childhood in Kenya before moving to the U.S. to go to college and work in telecommunications and marketing. He has a bachelor’s degree from Brown University in physics and a master’s degree in the same subject from Stanford University. He also earned an MBA from Emory University in Atlanta, he said.

   “I see myself in many ways as a person who has many places, has feet in many places,” he said.

   Intensely private, Ndesandjo declined to answer several questions about himself. He even refused to give his age, saying only that “I’m younger than Barack.”

   With a trim, athletic physique, he has a strong resemblance to his taller brother in Washington. His left ear is pierced, and he wore a black crew neck shirt under a dark jacket to the interview last week.

   Ndesandjo moved to China after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks when his job was cut in the rocky U.S. economy. He taught English, immersed himself in the study of Chinese culture and volunteered as a piano teacher at an orphanage.

   He now speaks Mandarin and said he earns a living as a consultant in strategic marketing, though he would not elaborate on his business.

   Ndesandjo said the White House was aware of the book project. A White House spokesman declined to comment on Ndesandjo’s interview or to discuss President Obama’s relationship with his half brother.

   The author said 15 per cent of the book’s proceeds would be donated to charities for children.

   Closely patterned on Ndesandjo’s own life, the novel depicts David, an American who leaves the U.S. corporate world after the 9/11 attacks to create a new life in China. He falls in love with a Chinese dance instructor and develops a bond with an orphan who is a gifted pianist battling a serious illness.

   In the book, David also writes letters to his American mother asking for details about her failed marriage to his late abusive Kenyan father.

   In one passage, Ndesandjo writes, “David easily remembered the hulking man whose breath reeked of cheap Pilsner beer who had often beaten his mother. He had long searched for good memories of his father but had found none.”

   Ndesandjo said such passages were drawn from his own experience.

   “I remember situations when I was growing up, and there would be a light coming from our living room, and I could hear thuds,” he said in the interview, tears welling in his eyes. “I could hear thuds and screams, and my father’s voice and my mother shouting. I remember one night when she ran out into the street and she didn’t know where to go.”

   Ndesandjo said his mother often called Obama Sr. “a brilliant man but a social failure.”

   The novel never mentions other wives David’s father might have had. Nor does it include a half brother who would become the first black U.S. president.

   On Wednesday, a week after speaking to the AP, Ndesandjo said at a book-launching news conference that his brother’s election victory, among other recent events, helped “peel away the hardness” that he developed emotionally during his difficult childhood.

   “I became proud of being an Obama,” he said.

   Since the election, he said the extra attention has changed his life, but he has coped by focusing on things that are important to him: music, writing, calligraphy and teaching piano to disadvantaged children.

   “The simple things sort of help pull you through,” he said.

   Ndesandjo told the AP he didn’t want to touch on any political themes in the book. “I think my brother’s team is doing an extraordinary job and I really don’t want to cause him additional heartburn,” he said.

   Besides the inauguration, he said he last visited his brother in Austin, Texas, before a debate last year with then-Democratic rival Hillary Rodham Clinton.

   “He came up to me, and we hugged. I gave him a gift, a gift of calligraphy,” Ndesandjo told the AP. “I was just thinking of how happy I was and how proud and how much I loved him.”

   “It was a very powerful experience.”

   Another of the president’s half brothers, George Obama, 27, of Huruma, Kenya, has penned a memoir that will be published by Simon and Schuster in January 2010.

   Other Obama relatives working on books include a half sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, daughter of Obama’s mother and her second husband, Lolo Soetoro; and Craig Robinson, first lady Michelle Obama’s brother.

   -

   Associated Press Writer Beth Fouhy in Washington and Tom Maliti in Nairobi, Kenya, contributed to this report.

   (The Antichrist Obama, is Jewish, and the above article shows his Jewish brother. 666 777 9. Those numbers will not go away.)
3. On November 14th, 2009 at 8:31 am , GEORGE said...

   as usual, the obama administration looks to hurt our country by creating un-needed “show trials”!! they & these liberal lawyers & marxists will try to slam ex-president bush, the c.i.a., dick chaney, carl rove etc for “torture” etc…this is going to be “grandstanding” at it’s finest at the expense of our country!!!! these “terorists” should be left in guantanamo, tried by “military tribunals” & executed there!!!!! (buried in pig fat!!)folks, elections have consequences! i hope we have learned a hard lesson & correct this situation in 2010 especially 2012 before this communist completely ruins our country!!! let’s start correcting this in 2010!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thank you for reading this…george d.
4. On November 14th, 2009 at 9:36 am , siseduermapierda said...

   This is exactly what our Constitution prescribes:

   Article III, Section 2:

   “The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed.”

   You believe in the Constitution don’t you? Then let it work for us. We could have had these guys tried and convicted years ago, and probably executed by now, if the Bush Administration had just followed the Constitution. Holding people for 8+ years without even charging them with a crime is beneath us. Due Process, Trial By Jury. This case will show the world we believe in our system of justice, that it works, and that even in the face of a hideous crime, we are a nation of laws.
5. On November 14th, 2009 at 9:56 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

   http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_n45/obama-ndesandjo-father.html

   Just about all the articles about Obama’s brother Mark Ndesandjo, with this excerpt:
   >Ndesandjo, who is described as bearing a striking resemblance to his half-brother in terms of ”’height, complexion and gait”’ by the NYT, also shares other deeper similarities. Ndesandjo”’s mother, Ruth, is a white American, nee Nidesand (she became the elder Obama”’s third wife and moved with him to Kenya, where she still lives).>

   His Jewish mother, Ruth Nidesand, still lives in Kenya.
   Obama’s Jewish link above with Mark Ndesandjo, is seamless. But then look at his insult to Jews and Israel which is blatant to see with Capers Funnye below, the clown from Chicago, saying white Jews are NOT JEWS.

   http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/05/magazine/05rabbi-t.html?pagewanted=2

   excerpt:

   >During a summer job in Chicago, some friends introduced Funnye to Rabbi Robert Devine, the spiritual leader of the House of Israel Congregation. Devine preached that Africans were the true descendants of the biblical Hebrews, and that Jesus, the Messiah, was a black man. The message appealed to Funnye….But he eventually became uncomfortable with the hybrid nature of Devine’s theology. As his interest in Judaism deepened, Funnye was increasingly drawn to the more conventional teachings of a black, Brooklyn-based rabbi named Levi Ben Levy, the spiritual leader of the Hebrew Israelite movement. “He taught me that real Judaism isn’t mixed in with Christianity,” Funnye says. He studied with Levy for five years, long distance from Chicago; the curriculum included Biblical Hebrew, liturgy, standard rabbinic texts and Jewish history from the perspective of African originalism. In 1985, Levy ordained Funnye as a rabbi, although no mainstream denomination accepted the title or Levy’s right to confer it…Very few white rabbis were even aware of the existence of the Hebrew Israelites. The movement was established in the early 20th century by Wentworth Matthew, a charismatic figure who arrived in Harlem at the end of World War I, claiming to be from Africa, although he was more likely born in St. Kitts. Matthew proclaimed himself a rabbi and founded a congregation in New York called the Commandment Keepers. He was influenced by the idea that blacks were the original Hebrews; but unlike William Saunders Crowdy, who lived in rural Kansas, Matthew modeled his congregation on the white Judaism he saw around him in New York. He called his a storefront a shul, introduced a standard Hebrew prayer book and weekly Sabbath Torah readings, discouraged excessive shows of emotion during worship, insisted on separate seating for women and men and instituted a modified version of kosher dietary laws. He also, and crucially, denied the divinity of Jesus and the truth of the New Testament.

   As Matthew’s group grew, it became far more “orthodox” in its Jewish ritual and code of conduct than the average Reform temple. Still, Matthew held some highly unorthodox beliefs. Chief among them was the doctrine that many white Jews are descended not from the ancient Israelites but from the Khazars, a tribe of Turkic nomads who, according to legend, converted to Judaism in the eighth or ninth century. Mainstream scholars say there is no historical evidence for such a claim, but it remains an article of faith for many Black Jews. (The claim is also a staple of anti-Israel rhetoric, a fact that Funnye, who like most Black Jews supports Israel, says makes him uneasy.). Matthew didn’t express animosity toward white Jews. On the contrary, he saw and appreciated them as temporary placeholders, people who kept the faith of Israel going while the Black Jews were lost in bondage. He sought to make common cause with and be included in the wider Jewish community: twice he applied for membership to the mainstream New York Board of Rabbis, but he was turned down. The Orthodox rabbis were flabbergasted that any gentile, black or white, would have the chutzpah to declare himself to be a Jew, let alone a rabbi. Some of the more liberal rabbis were intrigued by the Hebrew Israelites but were not willing to fully embrace them as fellow Jews.>

   Geir: Don’t believe the NYT’s lip-service to Obama. The so-called Rabbi Funnye, above is such a nice man, right ? Hahaha ! So why does he lead a synagogue founded by Mathews who says
   a. white Jews are NOT JEWS
   b. they’re simply temporarily upholding the Jewish faith until the rightful blacks take it back.

   Come on !

   Barack Obama is
   a. Jewish
   b. an Antisemite black.
6. On November 14th, 2009 at 10:02 am , tminu said...

   Sise the Constitution is for US Citizens. Really, how dumb can you be? And how hypocritical to call up (albeit inappropriately) a document for which you hold such disdain and contempt and crap all over on a daily basis by defending the Usurper puppet head for the marxist coup.

   And here lil miss board commie enemy of USA, Obama just appointed Robert Bauer. Know what his job is?
   BAUER’S JOB IS TO CONTINUE TO HIDE OBAMA’S BONAFIDES.
   http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1109/29498.html
   Tells you the eligibility issue is really grating on Obama, he needs a personal ARMY to keep his crimes and secrets under cover…but as we all know, “The Truth Has A Life All Its Own” hehehe
   you will lose

   The Canadian Government just classified Obama’s biographical data, so it can use his ineligibility for blackmail/leverage later.
   http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2199765

   One can guarantee that Putin (gee Obama just gave up missile shields and US weapons), Mossad, Achmedinejad (gee Obama just turned a blind eye to democracy demonstrators in Iran), Qadaffi (gee Obama just gave Qadaffi $2.5million) ETC are successfully employing this blackmail information. Thanks to criminals like Sise,Lion,Sam who support their fellow criminal.
7. On November 14th, 2009 at 10:12 am , tminu said...

   Obama Brings 9/11 Plotter To New York City

   CNSNews.com is reporting that self-proclaimed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other Guantanamo Bay detainees will be sent to New York to face trial in a civilian federal court, an Obama administration official said Friday.

   The official said Attorney General Eric Holder plans to announce the decision, to bring the man who decapitated Richard Pearl to New York City, later in the morning.

   The official is not authorized to discuss the decision before the announcement, so spoke on condition of anonymity.

   Bringing such notorious suspects to U.S. soil to face trial is a key step in Obama’s plan to close the terror suspect detention center at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Obama initially planned to close the detention center by Jan. 22, but he is no longer expected to meet that deadline

   It is also a major legal and political test of Obama’s overall approach to terrorism. If the case suffers legal setbacks, the administration will face second-guessing from those who never wanted it in a civilian courtroom. And if lawmakers get upset about notorious terrorists being brought to their home regions, they may fight back against other parts of Obama’s agenda

   And Obama is bringing four other terrorists with him.

   Continue reading here . . .
   http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/57107

   Update:
   http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/13/quotes-of-the-day-196/
   Charles Krauthammer said, “Most Americans, we suspect, can overlook the legal niceties and see this episode through the lens of common sense. Foreign terrorists who wage war on America and everything it stands for have no place sitting in a court of law born of the values they so detest. Mr. Holder has honored mass murder by treating it like any other crime.”
   http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703683804574533622533459520.html?mod=rss_opinion_main

   And these 5 guys now have all of the rights you do. The first thing the lawyers will do is ask the judge to throw out all the evidence against them because it was obtained through coercion.

   ———

   Obama has released over 3,400 terrorists, including top Qud terrorists responsible for killing hundreds of Americans, as well as Iraqi terror captives (without permission from the Iraqi government), he’s placed Guantanomo prisoners at over $1million per head in Palau and Bermuda, he’s given $900 MILLION to Hamas, $2.5 to Qadaffi.

   But the most precious gift and assistance he gave to terror was in his diminishment of their acts by softening the reality of the Hasan terror attack, and now by giving them all the coveted rights of any US citizen. Their defense will be paid for by the people whom they victimized.
8. On November 14th, 2009 at 10:43 am , siseduermapierda said...

   tminu says:
   November 14, 2009 at 10:02 am
   Sise the Constitution is for US Citizens. Really, how dumb can you be?

   It is you who is dumb, tminu. The US Constitution applies to EVERYONE on US soil: citizens, legal visitors, illegal ones and criminals from anywhere who commit a crime on US soil. You, tminu, are an embarrassment. Your lack of even the most basic understanding of our Constitution is stunning. How did you get out of the 8th grade if this is the extent of your knowledge of Civics? Shocking and sickening that you so proudly display your ignorance.
9. On November 14th, 2009 at 10:46 am , siseduermapierda said...

   tminu says:
   November 14, 2009 at 10:02 am

   *Thanks to criminals like Sise,Lion,Sam who support their fellow criminal.*

   How dare you, you ignorant, arrogant, disgusting, Unamerican little pig. That is completely beyond the pale.
10. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:02 am , tminu said...

    Sise, really you’re not only an enemy of the USA and support the criminal usurpation — you’re stupid.
    Now you’re saying somewhere in the Constitution (we’ll wait for your quote) that anyone who sets foot on US soil, and in some cases never does (because some of those terrorists coming to NY never did, ever) that suddenly they’ve achieved the same stature and rights as a US citizen.

    Get real, dolt-commie. Go read your little red book, sharpen your plowshare, but stop pushing your criminal mentality as if it were the law of the land.
11. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:10 am , 9/11 Trials, NY City, Terrorists, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Daniel Pearl decapitation, New York terrorists trial, Obama and Eric Holder, Left wing socialist agenda, Obama supporters, Forum on CIA waterboarding and America, Terrorist training camps « C said...

    [...] http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=7572 [...]
12. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:13 am , siseuduermapierda said...

    tminu says:
    November 14, 2009 at 11:02 am
    Sise, really you’re not only an enemy of the USA and support the criminal usurpation — you’re stupid.

    That’s it, keep displaying your complete ignorance. You really must not spend much time around people with more than a 7th grade education. Yes, the Constitution and US law apply to anyone who commits a crime in this country. Do you live under a rock? Does Omar Abdel-Rahman ring a bell? You are a shameful example of the failure of the American education system. Continuing to post about this just makes you look dumber and dumber.
13. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:17 am , jvn said...

    Hey Phil,

    Are you happy with the right wing views being posted on your board?

    Bet you appreciate us “obamatons” a bit more now, right?
14. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:18 am , siseduermapierda said...

    tminu says:
    November 14, 2009 at 11:02 am
    Sise, really you’re not only an enemy of the USA and support the criminal usurpation — you’re stupid.

    Are you going to keep standing up and showing us how poorly educated you are? You apparently don’t spend much time with anyone with more than a 7th grade education. Of course the Constitution and US law applies to anyone who commits a crime in this country. The fact that you don’t know this and keep insisting it is not so is a sad example of the failure of the education system. You are so arrogant, you have no idea how stupid your posts show you are.
15. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:36 am , siseduermapierda said...

    Tminu’s Saturday Civics Lessons:

    Lesson 1: The US Constitution doesn’t give anyone any rights. It is all about what the government may and may not do. Pick any clause, any amendment, and it’s all about the government.

    Example:
    First amendment – “Congress shall make no law….”

    Fourth amendment – “The right of the people to be secure in their persons….shall not be violated”

    Lesson 2: The equal protection clause in the 14th amendment applies to all “persons” within its jurisdiction, not just citizens.
    “nor shall any state deprive any PERSON of life, liberty or property without due process of law”

    Now shut up about who is stupid tminu. The stupid one is YOU.
16. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:43 am , Black Lion said...

    It is kind of interesting that as much as the right is as usual ripping any decision that the Obama Administration makes, that there are military and conservatives that support the decision to try these 5 individuals here in the US….Note some of the people that signed and support trying the individuals here in the US…They include people like Sessions, the former director of the FBI…And note the section of the Constitution (that sise noted) that allows for this to occur….

    From the Constitution Project…

    http://www.constitutionproject.org/

    “The largest bipartisan group of prominent Americans to propose a plan for closing the Guantanamo Bay detention facility has backed a single scheme for the disposition of cases of current and future detainees. Former members of Congress, diplomats, federal judges and prosecutors, high-level military and government officials, as well as national security experts today (November 4, 2009) backed a plan for the handling of detainees when the detention facility is closed.”

    Declaration Supporting Federal Court Prosecution of Terrorism Suspects and Opposing Indefinite Detention Without Charge

    We, the undersigned, urge Congress and the President to support a policy for detention treatment and trial of suspected terrorists that is consistent with U.S. treaty obligations and constitutional principles. As it moves to close Guantanamo and develop policies for handling terrorism suspects going forward, the government should rely upon our established, traditional system of justice. We are confident that the government can preserve national security without resorting to sweeping and radical departures from an American constitutional tradition that has served us effectively for over two centuries.

    Civilian federal courts are the proper forum for terrorism cases

    Over the last two decades, federal courts constituted under Article III of the U.S. Constitution have proven capable of trying a wide array of terrorism cases, without sacrificing either national security or fair trial standards.

    Prosecutions for terrorism offenses can and should be handled by traditional federal courts, which operate under statutes and procedures that provide the tools necessary to try such complex cases. Moreover, the War Crimes Act explicitly gives federal courts jurisdiction to try certain war crimes.

    Terrorism suspects should be criminally tried, not detained without charge

    We believe it is unconstitutional to detain indefinitely terrorism suspects in the United States without charge, either for the purposes of interrogation and intelligence-gathering or solely on the basis of suspected dangerousness. There are limited times when preventive detention, subject to required procedural protections, is appropriate in the context of armed conflict. However, the continued detention without charge of the detainees remaining in Guantanamo is not appropriate and is contrary to American values. [Beyond Guantanamo, The Constitution Project]

    Declaration signed by numerous retired generals, admirals, legal experts, and conservatives. Below is an excerpted list of signers of the Constitution Project’s Beyond Guantanamo: A Bipartisan Declaration, which includes Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform; former Rep. Thomas B. Evans Jr. (R-DE), a former co-chairman of the Republican National Committee; Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union and board member of the National Rifle Association, and former Reps. Goldwater (R-CA) and Bob Barr (R-GA):

    Bruce Fein, former Associate Deputy Attorney General and Assistant Director, Office of Legal Policy, U.S. Department of Justice; former General Counsel, Federal Communications Commission; former Research Director for the Joint Congressional Committee on Covert Arms Sales to Iran; former Executive Director, World Intelligence Review; Adjunct Scholar, American Enterprise Institute; Resident Scholar, Heritage Foundation; Lecturer, Brookings Institute; Adjunct Professor, George Washington University

    Eugene R. Fidell, President, National Institute of Military Justice; Florence Rogatz Lecturer in Law, Yale Law School; Of Counsel, Feldesman Tucker Leifer Fidell LLP

    Louis G. Fisher, Specialist in Constitutional Law, Law Library, Library of Congress

    Sam Gardiner, Colonel (Ret.), U.S. Air Force
    Philip Giraldi, Francis Walsingham Fellow, American Conservative Defense Allliance; Former CIA counter-terrorism specialist and military intelligence officer

    Michael S. Greco, President, American Bar Association, 2005-2006

    David C. Miller, Jr., Special Assistant to the President, National Security Affairs, National Security Council for President George H. W. Bush, 1989-1990; Ambassador to Zimbabwe, 1984-1986; to Tanzania, 1981-1984

    William S. Sessions, Director of the FBI, 1987-1993; Chief Judge, 1980-1987, and Judge, 1974-1987, U.S. District Court for the Western District of Texas; U.S. Attorney, Western District of Texas, 1971-1974
17. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:58 am , misanthropicus said...

    God damn’ America!
    Bringing the terro-s to NY for trial – a fine day for reverend Wright, a fine day for Bill Ayers, a fine day for Phlegger, a fine day for Tom Hayden, a fine day for Jane Fonda, a fine day for the Nobel Prize committee, a fine day for Chavez, a fine day for Fidel Castro, a fine day for Cindy Sheehan, a fine day for Mumia Jabal, a fine day for Michael Moore, a fine day for all who so tirelessly work at this country’s destruction -

    A fine day for dba Obama, who, after setting this infamy in motion, now can freely talk about himself and his vision in Japan, Singapore, China, etc. -

    Yet another ugly,ugly day for our fellow Americans serving in the military forces in Afghanistan, whose needs are cynically ignored by Obama whose chief political objective is to have the name of Kandahar be replaced by Saigon #2, no matter what –

    Phenomenal is mister Obama’s despise for America, and the persistence he shows in inflicting damaging acts upon this nation is equally formidable -

    Bringing the terro-s to New York, on America soil for a long, unnecessary and damaging for America trial is beyond pale – it’s an authentic act of sedition -

    And this gross, anti-American mascarade that the dba Obama administration is goes on relentlessly – the fall guy, Eric Holder (who anyway has good credentials when it comes to freeing terrorists to fulfill Democrat party needs), after moving to harass the CIA and thus diminishing our country’s defense, is now giving the dream break to Taliban to exercise (via American taxpayers’ money), their propaganda from an US District Court -

    And this anti-American move occurring on the same pattern – dba Obama away, somewhere in the world, ranting about being the first American Pacific president (??), while his minions in the country, Holder, Bauer and Cie. are dilligently implementing here an agenda that the 3rd. Reich, the 1940-s Japan, or the Khruschov’s Soviet Union never dared to dream that would be possible –

    Yes, we can! Boy, pround I am I am not a democrat – and does Obama fulfill the worst expectations ever projected on him!
18. On November 14th, 2009 at 12:00 pm , Black Lion said...

    Another supporter of the decision to bring these individuals to justtice in the US is Rep. Joe Sestak (D-PA). Of course he was attacked by the right and their spokesperson Rush Limbaugh…

    “Rush Limbaugh attacked the “dangerous” “ideologue” Rep. Joe Sestak (D-PA), who in a Fox News interview that day discussed his support of Holder’s decision.”

    Rush believes this because Congressman Sestak stated that he is “expressing faith in the U.S. criminal justice system, saying that “we don’t have to bend our ideals to defend them.”

    “What does Congressman Sestak know about defending America and its ideals?” It turns out, a bit more than Rush Limbaugh. See, prior to joining Congress, Sestak spent 31 years in the U.S. Navy, retiring as a two-star admiral. During his career, Sestak rose to the rank of three-star admiral where he commanded an aircraft carrier group, in part conducting combat operations in Afghanistan. On point to the current discussion, in the aftermath of the September 11 terrorist attacks, Sestak was put in charge of “Deep Blue,” a Naval think tank devoted to anti-terrorism. You know, thinking about ways to defend America and its ideals from terrorists.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5G-pifXhwG4

    It looks like people with actual military and law enforcement knowledge actually think that this is a good idea. Maybe they like the Obama administration has faith in our criminal justice system and feel that these individuals will be tried by a system that they tried to destroy and face the punishment that they truly deserve, to be put to death…
19. On November 14th, 2009 at 12:10 pm , Black Lion said...

    misanthropicus says:
    November 14, 2009 at 11:58 am
    God damn’ America!
    Bringing the terro-s to NY for trial – a fine day for reverend Wright, a fine day for Bill Ayers, a fine day for Phlegger, a fine day for Tom Hayden, a fine day for Jane Fonda, a fine day for the Nobel Prize committee, a fine day for Chavez, a fine day for Fidel Castro, a fine day for Cindy Sheehan, a fine day for Mumia Jabal, a fine day for Michael Moore, a fine day for all who so tirelessly work at this country’s destruction -
    ____________________________________________________________________
    Wow…As usual disparaging the President. Wow…Is that not a surprise…Unfortunately if we go by your standards, then the following individuals must also work tirelessly for this country’s distruction…

    “Take for instance the “Bipartisan Declaration” by the Constitution Project, “Beyond Guantanamo,” which states that “[c]ivilian federal courts are the proper forum for terrorism cases.” And what kind of pinko-commie leftists would sign such a declaration? Just to name a few: Americans for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist, former Rep. Thomas B. Evans Jr., a former co-chairman of the RNC, David Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union and National Rifle Association board member, and former Reps. Bob Barr and Barry Goldwater Jr.”

    Wow…Look at the people that hate America…Bob Barr, Barry Goldwater, Grover Norquist, David Keene, and former director of the FBI William Sessions. Not to mention Rep. Sestak, a man who served his country for over 30 years. If this means that you hate America and your country, then there are a lot of us out there. You are pathetic because you allow your hate to cloud your common sense. You dare to link the President with Castro and Chavez? You disparage the Nobel Peace Prize, that true Americans like Dr. King have won because you hate the President? Fortunately there are true Americans like the ones mentioned earlier that see our country differently…
20. On November 14th, 2009 at 12:20 pm , Black Lion said...

    Some articles regarding this issue…

    Andrew Cohen of the Washington Post…

    “It’s official. Sooner rather than later, Khalid Sheik Mohammed, an al-Qaeda leader who by all accounts spearheaded planning for the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, will stand trial in a federal civilian court near the scene of the crime. A Mohammed trial for Sept. 11 crimes — the case might actually be styled United States v. Mohammed — could be one of the biggest legal landmarks in American history. It’s not surprising that bringing one of the “faces of terror” to within blocks of Ground Zero would generate a lot of fear, trepidation and political hysteria. So let’s try to separate sizzle from steak. Here are six myths about Mohammed and his trial that ought to be destroyed:”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/13/AR2009111303586.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

    “To many, it felt exquisitely right: This is where it began. This is where it must end.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/nyregion/14york.html?_r=1&hp
21. On November 14th, 2009 at 12:29 pm , misanthropicus said...

    RE Black Lion:

    [...] It looks like people with actual military and law enforcement knowledge actually think that this is a good idea. Maybe they like the Obama administration has faith in our criminal justice system and feel that these individuals will be tried by a system that they tried to destroy and face the punishment that they truly deserve, to be put to death… [...]

    BL, I saw yesterday the debate on PBS, Lehrer, Mark Shields and Brooks, people who can hardly be called conservatives – all three were completely dismayed by this decision.

    And by Obama’s cowardice, too – instigating & timing Holder’s starting this second WTC destruction, firing Craig, then fleeing at the antipodes to give speeches about himself to some (thanks god!) skeptical Japanese, Chinese and so on -

    I know that your job is to defend the indefensible, i.e. defending dba Obama, but this time I sensed in your post some vacillation – hey, looks like this action will help a few liberals to recover -
22. On November 14th, 2009 at 12:40 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

    jvn, have you ever wondered why we don’t talk much and it’s you couple of hysterical people piping up with your high pitches who are here ?

    It’s because we’re VERY busy trying to get something that’ll stick to this Antichrist.

    We’re actually doing our testing on this alien.

    You know the saying: “Barking dogs don’t bite.”

    It’s true we don’t bark much, and we are off doing things here and there.

    But watch out for the saying: “Dogs smile and wag their tails so as to bite; and just so does the Lord of Death: when he comes to take you.” Sakya Leshe by Sakya Pandita, Tibet’s most famous saint and author.

    When we’ve dug up the thing that will stick and down Obama the Antichrist, we’ll come that day and say:

    “jvn, folks, no hard feelings, we became good friends, right ? Despite all this, let’s say we’re still friends and no hard feelings. Bye now.”

    It’ll be so fast you’ll not even see it and it’ll be curtains. Rome was not built in a day, but fell pretty damn fast.
23. On November 14th, 2009 at 12:44 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    misanthropicus says:
    November 14, 2009 at 11:58 am
    *it’s an authentic act of sedition*

    It’s an act of patriotism because it follows the Constitution. You should be proud your government has decided to follow the Constitution. Of course, if you’ve never read it, but you claim to stand for it, here is what the Constitution has to say:

    Article III, Sec 2 -
    “The trial of all crimes, except in the case of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed.”

    Amendment V -
    No PERSON shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

    Amendment VI –
    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him,; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

    Amendment VIII –
    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    Amendment XIV -
    No state shall make or enforce any law which…deprive any PERSON of life, liberty or property without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    NOTE TO TMINU: These are not reserved to Citizens, they say PERSON. That means ANYONE.
24. On November 14th, 2009 at 12:47 pm , Pete said...

    >>>Phil says:
    God forbid, the case could actually get thrown out on a technicality — something that readers of this site are all too familiar with concerning the Judiciary! That certainly wouldn’t make some 9/11 victims’ families too happy.<<<<

    Truly Phil, the only thing that the last year has taught me is that the Judicial system is a facade. Yep, totally fake, totally politically controlled, not at all concerned with the Constitution. The Trail Lawyers need more revenue, so they will try battlefield combatants as war criminal in civil court. The Judges will give whatever decision the administration and higher ups tell them to give and make up legal speak, no matter how ludicrous, to attempt to cover it up.

    Will the terrorists be found guilty? Some of the more high profile ones, otherwise the outrage would be politically damaging. Will the Obama team use it to attack GB? Yes, that is a secondary goal. Was this done to take the spot light off of the debacle at Fort Hood? I think it is fair to say, they are still getting the 'story straight' and don’t want an outside investigation until they decide (not discover) what happened.

    All you need to do is ask who benefits from this move, politically or financially. Do We the People benefit financially or politically—-NO. Does it make our children safer or return or civil rights—-NO. Does the Obama Administration take the spotlight off of Fort Hood—YES! Do the Trail Lawyers open up a huge new avenue for revenue—YES!

    There are two things that I am certain of: The American People and the families of the 9/11 dead have nothing to gain—AND I MEAN NOTHING–from this move. This is more about political payoffs to the Trail Lawyers, and distracting from Fort Hood, then it is about bringing anyone to justice.

    Take heart, you can count on the next administration to be twice as ruthless and illegal as this one!!! We are way, way, way down the rabbit hole now, and just look at the potential future doorways! Do you think it is likely that the next POTUS will take over industries, fire their union employees, and then have them arrested for loosing their health care coverage? Who knows, with control of the media, and lots of foreign money, and ACORN, perhaps Khalid Sheikh Mohammed can be the next POTUS!
25. On November 14th, 2009 at 1:15 pm , bob strauss said...

    If anyone had any doubt that Obama is a usurper this should clear it up for them. He doesn’t give a shit about this country or it’s citizens. The only thing he cares about is what people think of him.

    The bringing of those terrorists to this country for a “show trial” should cement Obama in the minds of most Americans, excluding Black Lion, as the worst piece of crap DC has ever seen.

    I can hardly wait to see the new poll numbers. After those numbers are released the popularity of what Obama is doing will be realized and the usurper will see a new all time low.

    He may think he is going to please certain people by this move but I believe he has just pissed off a much larger group of people who were sitting on the fence as to his eligibility to be President.

    This move will bring those undecided on the issue of Obama’s citizenship out into the open and will renew the demand to see proof that Obama meets the qualifications to be President and to make the kind of decisions that brings terrorists to this country.

    I hope the backlash from this decision, to bring terrorists to this country for a show trial, is the straw that breaks the camel’s back. It is time for “change”, from a usurper to a real President that has America’s best interest at heart.
26. On November 14th, 2009 at 1:27 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    bob strauss says:
    November 14, 2009 at 1:15 pm
    *The bringing of those terrorists to this country *

    Article III, Section 2:
    ” The trial of all crimes shall be by jury”
    ” and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed.”

    Obama is following the Constitution.
27. On November 14th, 2009 at 2:01 pm , Jack said...

    Since his transferring the 9/11 Terrorist case to the US Criminal Court in NYC now manifests, as nothing has to date, that Obama is, or is acting as, Commander-in-Chief of a Fifth Column rather than of the United States of America, Robert Bauer’s becoming White House Counsel is more than pivotal as to Obama’s legal representation in the only remaining Constitutional Eligibility case (for damages by Keyes), Keyes v. Obama, USDC, CA — that is, the only remaining Obama Constitutional case addressing the dual loyalties prohibition under the Article 2 “natural born citizen” (two citizen parents) requirement inserted in the Constitution to avert the very threat manifested by Obama’s latest 9/11 actions.

    Assuming the Alan Keyes suit or cause of action for tort fraud against Candidate (Pre-President) Obama survives in Judge Carter’s court (e.g., leave to file second amended complaint), Bauer, in his official Government capacity as White House Counsel (as well as the Justice Dept. for that matter) cannot appropriately represent Obama in a Government capacity.

    Although service of process on Obama occurred the day before the 1/21/09 valid Oath of Office, even if service occurred after Oath of Office, Obama would not have Presidential immunity for personal torts. (Any Presidential immunity is even less than Congressional immunity.)
28. On November 14th, 2009 at 2:02 pm , misanthropicus said...

    Re siseduermapierda RE

    * Misanthropicus: [...] it’s an authentic act of sedition [...]
    * Sise: [...] It’s an act of patriotism because it follows the Constitution. [...]

    Curious act, Sise, acclaiming as constitutional the first step in a process that clearly aims to make out of some terrorists heroes and martyrs, then set them free – since this will be the outcome of the travesty that Obama and Holder -

    But, since the coverage of this situation uniformly shows that the Democrats will soon pay a steep price for Obama’s and Holder’s attempt to inflict upon this nation their anti-American agenda, I look at the silver lining of this situation -

    Which is not only the destruction of the Democrat party, but also the positioning of dba Obama for the well deserved judicial exploration & the ensuing punishment for his usurpation of the CEO position of this country -

    Can’t say that I am not trying to apply the constitution here -
29. On November 14th, 2009 at 2:15 pm , tminu said...

    BOMBSHELL VIDEO FROM FROM 2006 OF OBAMA

    HE HAS NO INTENTION OF TRYING THE TERRORISTS

    IT IS THE UNITED STATES HE IS PUTTING ON TRIAL

    http://caosblog.com/archives/13095
    “This priceless clip is from the Debate of the Military Commisions Act of 2006-to authorize trial by military commission for violations of the law of war.
    This guy isn’t black – he is Red-Red-Red. Communist, lying POS!

    Obama and his merry band of America Haters are putting the CIA, FBI, and the American Military on trial. They’re not trying the effing terrorists! ”
    http://www.breitbart.tv/bombshell-uncovered-obama-statement-ksm-will-get-full-military-trial/
    OBAMA HATES THE MILITARY, HATES THE CIA, HATES AMERICA
    HE’S TRYING HIS BEST TO GET MILITARY KILLED, DEMORALIZED
    DEMORALIZE THE CIA
    KILL AMERICANS WITH OBAMACRYPT EMBALMACARE DEATH PANELS

    Sise, Black, Sam…..all America haters themselves

    watch them spin their reasoning to try FOREIGN ENEMY COMBATANTS on US SOIL, just like Obama they have nothing in mind except to excoriate the USA and weaken her defenses.

    You idiots need to stop trying to lecture about rights of foreign enemy combatants caught on foreign soil who were never American nor were never here, nor non-US citizens committing acts of war on the US, it’s shit. You are ALL the enemy of America and we see your ugliness.
30. On November 14th, 2009 at 2:24 pm , misanthropicus said...

    … after rigging the trial of the 9/11 Islam terrorists for their absolution and relese, now dba Obam has turned his affectionate attention to mister Hasan who is evidently maligned and misunderstood by America:

    “Obama Urges Congress to Delay Fort Hood Investigation”/ AP

    On an eight-day Asia trip, President Obama turned his attention home and pleaded for lawmakers to “resist the temptation to turn this tragic event into the political theater.”
    President Obama on Saturday urged Congress to hold off on any investigation of the Fort Hood rampage until federal law enforcement and military authorities have completed their probes into the shootings at the Texas Army post, which left 13 people dead. [...]
    On an eight-day Asia trip, Obama turned his attention home and pleaded for lawmakers to “resist the temptation to turn this tragic event into the political theater.” He said those who died on the nation’s largest Army post deserve justice, not political stagecraft. [...]
    Several members of Congress, particularly Michigan Rep. Peter Hoekstra, the top Republican on the House Intelligence Committee, have also called for a full examination of what agencies knew about Hasan’s contacts with a radical Muslim cleric in Yemen and others of concern to the U.S.
    Hoekstra confirmed this week that government officials knew of about 10 to 20 e-mails between Hasan and the radical imam, beginning in December 2008. [...]

    More @http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/14/obama-urges-congress-delay-fort-hood-investigation/
    ———*
31. On November 14th, 2009 at 2:34 pm , misanthropicus said...

    RE Bob Strauss:

    [...] I can hardly wait to see the new poll numbers. [...]

    Bob, good news for you, Obama’s numbers are awful – check this:
    “Obama is Losing Independent Voters” – Scott Rasmussen & Doug Schoen/WSJ @:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574525543109875438.html

    Also, what’s beautiful here is that these numbers were built before Obama rigged the 9/11 trial, before he fired Craig, and before any of his awful idiocies spewn in his Pacific tour popped out -

    @ idiocies in Obama’s Pacific tour – check this photo with Obama licking the shoes of the Japanese Emperor: http://www.drudgereport.com/http:/
32. On November 14th, 2009 at 2:43 pm , bob strauss said...

    sise, I was going tell you that the Constitution is there for the benefit of US citizens but I decided it would be a waste of time. I realized you only apply the parts of the Constitution that are helpful to your arguments while ignoring the parts that aren’t.
33. On November 14th, 2009 at 2:46 pm , Kenneth said...

    The issue is not whether or not the U.S. Court in New York could handle the trial effectively; IT IS WHETHER OR NOT THIS TRIAL WOULD BE OF ANY BENEFIT TO THE U.S., AND HOW THE U.S. WOULD DEAL WITH AN ACQUITTAL–which is possible.

    Were these combatants read their Miranda rights? If not, that could torpedo the case. Are confessions that were not made in a U.S. Court valid? What if the Combatant claims he was only boasting to gain prominence because his religion does not make it necessary to speak the truth to the “infidels”? How would his confessions obtained with use of waterboarding, which the current administration criticizes hold up in a U.S. Court of Law?

    If there is an acquittal can the combatants seek financial redress; and would they not be freed on to the streets of New York? How could the U.S. hold a fair trial and deny the production of some evidence, under the claim of national security, in a way that would be acceptable to the entire world?

    IS THIS TRIAL IN A N.Y. COURT WORTH THE RISK????
34. On November 14th, 2009 at 2:57 pm , bob strauss said...

    Kenneth, NO. It is not worth the risk. Obama appears to be working for the enemy and their ideology.
35. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:14 pm , JeffM said...

    siseduermapierda,

    Thank you for clarifying the Constitution because you’ve just touched on a very important aspect on the “War on Terror” that was sanctioned by our beloved CONgrass and dictator Bush. This applique continues with the Afghanistan “Mole hunt”. Soetoro who is not only illegal in his eligibility, continues to command an illegal war without approval from Congress because we cannot wage a Constitutional War with a criminal element.

    The real issue is that CONgrass has been currently funding an UNCONSTITUTIONAL war against CRIMINAL factions, i.e. terrorists. To be tried for war crimes against the U.S. as covered in the Constitution, one must follow laws created and passed by Congress as granted in Article I of the U.S. Constitution.

    These trials are to be held under the auspices stated under USC § 948c:

    Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter.

    Amendment 5 says:

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury

    CONgrass and this Unconstitutional White House can’t use “war on terror” in once sentence, then hen pick parts of the Constitution for criminal trials in the next. Either they are criminals and this war on terror is illegal, or the White House is guilty of high treason for aiding comfort to the enemy by granting them leniency by affording them rights not granted under the Constitution.

    This is why we continue to have serious issues. It’s called Selective Constitutionalism. Your fanboy continues what Bush did. What Soetoro is doing now is TREASON because he declares war on terrorists but aids them when they are captured by granting them protection they are not legally allowed to receive.
36. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:16 pm , keokuk said...

    Kenneth, NO. It is not worth the risk. Obama appears to be working for the enemy and their ideology.

    How do you figure? Since 9/11, civilian courts have a higher conviction rate of terrorists than military tribunals. If anything, it sounds like YOU, by OPPOSING the use of civilian courts, are standing up to support terrorists going free.

    Civilian courts have a better track record than military courts on this.
37. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:20 pm , tminu said...

    keokuk, Obama already admitted his agenda
    http://www.breitbart.tv/bombshell-uncovered-obama-statement-ksm-will-get-full-military-trial/
    to try the USA under the ruse of putting enemy combatants on trial, his purpose is not conviction of terrorists hell he can’t even mutter that word
    no his purpose is conviction of the USA and freeing and funding terrorsits

    he has freed 3,400 terrorists worldwide, he has funded them over $1 billion dollars of OUR money, his agenda is quite clear
38. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:25 pm , JeffM said...

    keokuk,

    It doesn’t matter what the success rate is. It matters what the jurisdiction is.

    Civil courts are meant for criminals. Military courts are meant for enemy combatants.

    Which one is it? Are we talking about criminals or enemies of the U.S.? You can’t have it both ways and neither can Soetoro. Doesn’t matter anyway. Everything he commands is illegal because he shouldn’t be there.
39. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:31 pm , keokuk said...

    Which one is it? Are we talking about criminals or enemies of the U.S.? You can’t have it both ways and neither can Soetoro.

    Why can’t it be both? Why is it not possible for a person to be both a criminal and an enemy of the United States? This is the first time I’ve ever heard such an argument; even the Bush Administration never contested that it could have put enemy combatants on trial if it wanted. Do you have any legal precedents where you can point to support your conclusion that a person cannot be both a criminal and an enemy combatant?
40. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:34 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    bob strauss says:
    November 14, 2009 at 2:43 pm
    sise, I was going tell you that the Constitution is there for the benefit of US citizens

    You could try to tell me that, but you’d be completely wrong. You say you’re for the Constitution but you don’t even know what it really says. READ the 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14th amendment as well as Article III, Section 2. They refer to “Persons”, not to citizens. “We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal”. How sad that you don’t realize the power of your own Constitution.
41. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:48 pm , Black Lion said...

    misanthropicus says:
    November 14, 2009 at 2:34 pm
    RE Bob Strauss:

    [...] I can hardly wait to see the new poll numbers. [...]

    Bob, good news for you, Obama’s numbers are awful – check this:
    “Obama is Losing Independent Voters” – Scott Rasmussen & Doug Schoen/WSJ @:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704402404574525543109875438.html

    Also, what’s beautiful here is that these numbers were built before Obama rigged the 9/11 trial, before he fired Craig, and before any of his awful idiocies spewn in his Pacific tour popped out -
    _______________________________________________________________________
    I was waiting for you to to quote the most biased poll ever, Rasmussen…He hasn’t got anything right in years…It seems like the President’s numbers are not as bleak as they like to make it out to be…Obama’s numbers are as bleak as Reagan was during his Presidency…So he must really be doing a horrible job…

    “Continuing his obsession with documenting how supposedly weak Obama’s polling numbers are, the GOP’s favorite ‘independent’ pollster Scott Rasmussen teams up with colleague Douglas Schoen in the WSJ today to (surprise!) try to detail how weak Obama’s polling numbers are. And yes, this is the same duo that teamed up in the winter in the pages of the WSJ to…try to detail how weak Obama’s polling numbers were. (See a pattern? And did these two ever weigh in as Bush’s polling numbers cratered?)”

    “Meanwhile, the big problem with the column is that much of it is built around Rasmussen’s own polling data; data which few people besides GOP partisans take seriously. (Here’s a prime example why.) Secondly, Rasmussen, so busy pointing to a blizzard of numbers that supposed illustrate how Obama’s presidency is crashing, barely has time to acknowledge that, oh yeah, the president’s job approval ratings remains steady and strong, which of course, undercuts the at-times doomsday rhetoric used in the column.”

    “Again, you can pretty much throw out the Rasmussen numbers in terms of Obama’s job approval since they’re trending nearly ten points lower than many other pollsters’ data. In truth, Obama at this point in his presidency is just about where Ronald Reagan was eight months into his first term. And yes, Reagan is often pointed to by pundits as being one of the most successful presidents of the last half-century. But Rasmussen ignores that point, and instead claims Obama’s job approval ratings are “relatively low.”

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/200911140001
42. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:48 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    Kenneth says:
    November 14, 2009 at 2:46 pm
    *IS THIS TRIAL IN A N.Y. COURT WORTH THE RISK????*
    Absolutely. If you want to hide under the bed and suck your thumb, go right ahead. What? You don’t trust in the Constitution?
    Federal Court = 100% conviction rate of terrorists including
    Sheik Rahmed, Moussaui, Padilla.

    Military Tribunals = 0% conviction rate of terrorists.

    Total G’mo Detainees = 750
    G’mo Detainees Released by Bush Admin = 250
    G’mo Detainees Released by Obama Admin = 60 cleared for release, 4 Uygurs to Bermuda, 6 Uygurs to Palau
    G’mo Detainees Died in Detentio =2-3
43. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:51 pm , JeffM said...

    keokuk,

    The law is very clear on this. You can be both a criminal and an alien enemy combatant, but you cannot be charged in a criminal court for an act of hostility as an alien combatant for anything that is covered under the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

    Regardless of what Soetoro believes his power is, he’s in direct violation of this WAR act passed by Congress under the power vested in them by Article I of the United States Constitution. The Act is also very clear that it supports all the statutes mentioned in the Geneva Convention and the Hague Convention.
44. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:54 pm , misanthropicus said...

    1) Dba Obama and his minions have set up the venue and background for the greatest judicial farce ever – when Holder says that he will ask for death penalty he knows that the terro will be set fee for some technicality.
    Also, as dba Obama wants, NYC and the federal government will have to pay reparations and to apologize for this, yet another act of American oppression – good job!

    God! And dba Obama was voted in office by 56 million people – and they watch TV now!

    2) And for all Obama’s shameless apologets – stop arguing about that guys constitutional rights! He ain’t got none – and watch bellow Krauthammer well arguing this:

    “Giving KSM The Rights Of An American Citizen is Unconscionable” -
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/11/14/krauthammer_
45. On November 14th, 2009 at 3:58 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    Black Lion says:
    November 14, 2009 at 3:48 pm

    But BL, without the Rasmussen numbers, the average of polls of President’s approval rating would be mid to high-50s! Rasmussen tells them what they want to hear.
46. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:04 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    For some G’mo detainees, the only evidence against them is they were wearing a Casio F91W watch when arrested. The Casio F91W cost 7.50 to 12.00. It had been used as a timer by some terrorists. You think those guys could be convicted on that evidence? When he was arrested, Tim McVeigh was wearing a tee shirt that said “The tree of liberty needs to be occasionally watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.” Any of you have a shirt or banner or button with that saying on it? Would you feel it was right if you were arrested and held without a charge for 8 years because you were wearing a shirt or a button with a phrase once worn by a terrorist?
47. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:04 pm , bob strauss said...

    sise, Our Constitution is for the benefit of the citizens of the USA and doesn’t apply to the citizens of foreign countries. They live under the rules, or lack of rules, of their own country.

    Is this your day job? sitting around all day trying to convince anyone reading this blog that what you say is fact. You’re failing miserably.

    You cite all parts of the Constitution that guarantee Americans get a fair and speedy trial but your argument that it pertains to foreigners because it says persons instead of citizens is just more of your doublespeak. When the Constitution was written those persons described are the Americans governed by this Constitution. It does not mention guarantees for foreign citizens. They are not under the jurisdiction of the USA.
48. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:05 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

    tminu, do u know some communists are good and some republicans are bad, but this obama is not only communist he’s also got the antichrist’s beast’s seven heads too, including communism that’s also Judaism, christianity, islam
    add to that black nationalism
    radicalism
    and black liberation theology

    why do i think he’s the antichrist ?
    why am i SURE ?

    because on election day 666 777 9 were drawn in Illinois’ Lottery

    he’s the antichrist allright

    he fakes and betrays all those seven beliefs and creeds because he mixes them all up like creole cooking which tastes like crap and is basically uneatable

    see my u tube pages for all these elements gathered together

    he’s a mess and we’re in HIS MESS NOW
    It’s only getting out backwards now
    because the further we try to get out forward, the worse the traps rips off our leg
    we got to oust him, lock him up and court-martial him for nuclear secrets’s breaching
49. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:06 pm , keokuk said...

    The Military Commissions Act does not restrict the jurisdiction of federal district courts to hear original criminal matters. It only eliminates civilian courts (with the exception of the DC Circuit Court) of jurisdiction over applications for a writ of habeas corpus from enemy combatants. It creates an alternative of military commissions but does not remove the right of the government to seek ordinary criminal trials.
50. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:08 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    misanthropicus says:
    November 14, 2009 at 3:54 pm
    *Krauthammer*

    Apparently Krauthammer doesn’t know his Constitution any better than you people do. Read the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th amendment. They apply to “persons” not citizens. Persons being anyone under the jurisdiction of the US.

    Article III, Section 2 – “The trial of all crimes shall be by jury..in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed”
51. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:11 pm , bob strauss said...

    misanthropicus, they already scrubbed Krauthammer clip.
52. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:15 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    bob strauss says:
    November 14, 2009 at 4:04 pm
    sise, Our Constitution is for the benefit of the citizens of the USA

    No it isn’t. You think it’s a mistake that it refers to “persons” instead of “citizens”? The Constitution applies to all people under it’s jurisdiction: citizens, aliens, and committers of crimes in the US. Man, you people are misinformed about your Constitution. Where do you get your nonsense? Go read it bob! 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th 8th amendment refer to Persons. Aren’t you glad it covers anyone in the US? Why do you think Massoui got due process? He’s not a citizen. Sheik Rahmed got a criminal trial. He was an illegal alien. Look at the mother of the balloon boy, she’s a Japanese citizen and she received due process too. Why would that be if the Constitution only applies to citizens? Use your brain bob. Our laws and Constitution apply to anyone under US jurisdiction.
53. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:31 pm , JeffM said...

    keokuk said:

    The Military Commissions Act does not restrict the jurisdiction of federal district courts to hear original criminal matters

    This is not a criminal matter. It is a military one because the attacks were considered an “Act of War” against the United States. If it was a criminal matter, then the attacks could not have been considered an act of war like it was, and therefore Soetoro couldn’t use it as a crutch to keep troops in countries in the Far East for the sake of combatting criminal Al Qaeda organizations.

    Even if what Soetoro was doing was Constitional, it would be Unconstitutional until a decision is made by the Supreme Court against the Constitutionality of the Military Commissions Act of 2006. It’s not Constitutional until the law is repealed.
54. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:38 pm , Kenneth said...

    siseduermapierda wrote:

    “Absolutely” (the trial is worth the risk) “If you want to…What? You don’t trust in the Constitution?.

    _________________________________________________________________

    Yes I trust in the Constitution (Especially Article 2); and in the law that flows from the Constitution that could result in an acquittal on the basis of failure to administer Miranda Rights; and evidence coerced by waterboarding.
55. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:42 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    JeffM says:
    November 14, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    *This is not a criminal matter. It is a military one because the attacks were considered an “Act of War” against the United States.*

    The Bush Admin called them an act of war. The Obama administration calls the attacks of 9/11 3000 pre-meditated murders. The act doesn’t require trials by military commissions, it allows them if government chooses.
56. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:46 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    Kenneth says:
    November 14, 2009 at 4:38 pm
    *acquittal on the basis of failure to administer Miranda Rights; and evidence coerced by waterboarding.*

    And whose fault was that? People who thought they were clever enough to avoid this nation’s laws. And who still think they can disrupt Obama’s administration by planting seeds of doubt in people who don’t understand the beauty of our Constitution. KSM is on tape before his arrest claiming responsibility for 9/11.
57. On November 14th, 2009 at 4:48 pm , bob strauss said...

    sise, The people you cite were all IN this country committing crimes, that is why they were under the jurisdiction, they were allowed into the country, the terrorists were picked up outside of the US and were never under the jurisdiction of the USA.

    Why are you so quick to side with the terrorists? Where do your loyalties lie? You’ve already declared them innocent, is this what we have to look forward to, at trial? Quit defending the enemy and start defending America.
58. On November 14th, 2009 at 5:00 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    bob strauss says:
    November 14, 2009 at 4:48 pm
    *You’ve already declared them innocent, is this what we have to look forward to, at trial? Quit defending the enemy and start defending America.*

    How dare you, you disgusting troll. You are a filthy nasty liar. I demand an apology you dirty scumbag. You can’t find ANYTHING in ANY post where I declared these scum innocent!

    Article III, Sec 2 The trial for the crimes is to be held where the crime was committed. I am right. You are wrong. Because you don’t know what your own Constitution says.
59. On November 14th, 2009 at 5:05 pm , bob strauss said...

    sise wasn’t it you that said the only evidence the government had against the terrorists was that they were wearing a certain kind of watch? KSM cut off Pearls head and all we have on him is that he was wearing a watch?
60. On November 14th, 2009 at 5:23 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    bob strauss says:
    November 14, 2009 at 5:05 pm
    *sise wasn’t it you that said the only evidence the government had against the terrorists was that they were wearing a certain kind of watch?*

    thank you for clarifying. I wasn’t talking about the 5 being brought to NY, I was talking about the whole population at G’mo. I think the ones coming to NY are guilty as hell. The 5 who are accused of plotting 9/11 should be tried as criminals for mass murder but given due process. There are hundreds of others at G’mo who were arrested for various reasons in foreign countries. For a few, it was because of what watch they were wearing. Others, it was because their neighbors turned them in for the ransom. Half of the original 750 at G’mo have already been released. Another quarter are scheduled to be released when they find a country to take them. I assume the ones with the watches are being or have been released. Some of the people taken to G’mo were guilty of nothing but being in the wrong place at the wrong time. That’s why so many have been released. But the ones that killed 3000 Americans right here? I think our justice system can take care of them. I don’t think they should get special treatment, I think they should be treated as the mass murderers they are and tried by a jury. I am totally confident a NY jury will convict them and the only question would be if they get the death penalty. No one is going to walk free from that bunch. The military commissions have convicted no one. The federal courts have won convictions for every terror-related case they’ve ever prosecuted. Let’s go with the winners!
61. On November 14th, 2009 at 5:56 pm , bob strauss said...

    sise, Remember their convictions can be overturned if our illegal President is removed from office. It’s all a matter of timing. It can be argued that we do not have a legal government with which to prosecute these people.
62. On November 14th, 2009 at 6:16 pm , Nick said...

    Despite my beliefs about what I think happened on 9/11 — it will suffice here to say that I don’t believe the official story — to make a legal point, this may technically be the correct decision. The Constitution describes “offenses against the law of nations” as one of the few crimes that fall under federal jurisdiction; a foreign entity carrying out an act of war or other extreme violence against the United States apart from a formal declaration of war by a legitimate government might be construed as an offense against the law of nations.

    While it may also be correct that offenses against the law of nations could be tried by a tribunal, because an independent terrorist group is not part of any foreign military, trying them in a military tribunal may not be appropriate; instead, they could be tried as a rogue entity who carried out an act of war or some other form of actual or intended fatal attack independent of a foreign government and a formal declaration of war.

    And even if these trials did take place in tribunal, evidence gained from torture (and note that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was allegedly waterboarded many times, I believe well over 100) still ought not be admissible based on the inherent principles of justice. When we apply God’s standards of justice from the Old Testament, we see that they uphold principles like innocent until proven guilty, proof beyond a reasonable doubt, etc., and you cannot objectively and morally really reach those standards with torture and coerced information, and certainly a confession obtained in that course of action cannot be trusted.
63. On November 14th, 2009 at 6:36 pm , misanthropicus said...

    “Bush Attorney General: 9/11 Trial Offers Jihadists Platform”/by FOXNews.com

    * Lead: Michael Mukasey, the final attorney general in the Bush administration, defended military tribunals, asserting that they were created for this kind of case and noting that they were used during and after World War II. *

    Michael Mukasey, the attorney general at the end of President Bush’s second term, ripped his successor’s decision to prosecute the Sept. 11 conspirators in a federal court, saying the trial will give jihadists a forum and could compromise delicate intelligence.

    Mukasey, in an interview with Fox News, called the civilian trial announced Friday by Attorney General Eric Holder “the wrong place, under the wrong circumstances, in the wrong forum.”

    “After 9/11, we recognized that we were at war,” he said, arguing that military tribunals were created for this kind of case and noting that they have been used since the Revolutionary War and during and after World War II.

    “There are forums that allow the presentation of evidence in a controlled atmosphere, where you can limit access to classified information, and where you can receive evidence gathered on the battlefield, not necessarily under the kinds of conditions in which police gather evidence in a conventional case,” he said. “That’s not true in federal court.”

    On Friday, Holder announced that the self-proclaimed Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other Guantanamo detainees will be tried in federal court in New York for their alleged role in the attacks that killed 2,976 American civilians — saying the U.S. will seek the death penalty against the defendants.

    Holder said he decided to seek justice against the suspects in federal court rather than a military tribunal because the attacks targeted civilians on U.S. soil. But Mukasey and other critics say the attack was an act of war that should be prosecuted in a military tribunal.

    Mukasey said it’s unlikely that Mohammed will be acquitted because of his confession and other evidence linking him to the attack. But he added that same evidence could present problems in federal court.

    “The real problem is that there is other evidence that may very well come from classified sources, that would be easier to handle in a military tribunal, much harder to handle in a civilian tribunal,” Mukasey said.

    He added that the trial also puts the terrorists on the kind of stage they seek.

    “They want to be on a big stage and there’s no bigger stage than New York,” he said.”
    ————————-*—————

    Sad lot you are, Obamatons! Your rabid sycophancy – sincere or paid by piece? – for dba Obama makes you no better than the terrorists’ enablers who created in the first place the conditions for the attentats to succeed.

    Obamatons, a subclass of Hyenas – where SanDiegoSam to correct me regarding his lineage?
64. On November 14th, 2009 at 6:47 pm , misanthropicus said...

    How can we expect something right happen during the watch of the mystery man dba Obama?

    Obama is 48 years old yet simply there is no paper trail to track his existence, achievements (or failures), nothin’ -

    * Birth certificate: Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released (lawyers’ fees = $2,000,000 ~ birth certificate = $15)
    * Certification of Live Birth — Released — Counterfeit
    * Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released (if one exists)
    * Obama/Dunham divorce — Released (by independent investigators)
    * Kindergarten records — Records lost
    * Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released
    * Soetoro adoption records — Not released
    * Fransiskus Assisi School School application — Released (by * independent investigators)
    * Punahou School records — Not released
    * Soetoro/Dunham divorce — Released (by independent investigators)
    * Selective Service Registration — Released — Counterfeit
    * Social Security Number — Under suspicion
    * Occidental College records — Not released
    * Passport — Not released and records scrubbed clean by Obama’s terrorism and intelligence adviser.
    * Columbia College records — Not released
    * Columbia thesis — “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament” — Not released
    * Harvard College records — Not released
    * Harvard Law Review articles — None
    * Illinois Bar Records — Not released.
    * Baptism certificate — None
    * Medical records — Not released
    * Illinois State Senate records — None
    * Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost
    * Law practice client list — Not released
    * University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

    … the entire Obama body of knowledge consists of 3 documents — “Dreams From My Father” — “The Audacity of Hope” — and the latest — “Change We Can Believe In” written by Bill Ayres, a man whose file is still open at the San Francisco PD and FBI for terrorist charges -

    … in addition to this, we can mention the current attorney General contribution at the well being of this country by releasing in 2000 the Porto Rican terrorists -

    Quite a crew -
65. On November 14th, 2009 at 6:52 pm , misanthropicus said...

    More grief for dba Obama fresh from the bloggers:

    “The Kerchner v Obama & Congress lawsuit has been appealed and is now formally Docketed by the U.S. 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia PA as docket number 09-4209.”

    Eppur si muove -
66. On November 14th, 2009 at 7:01 pm , misanthropicus said...

    dba Obama ridiculed by Japanese for primitive manners (Michelle told us a few about this last year):

    Poor Obama, he tried to be mighty sensitive and multicultural when meeting the Emperor and did a deeeeeeeeeeeeeep bow while shaking the emperor’s hand – which in Japan is considered very rude, because the etiquette goes either/ or in this situation:
    1) when one bows, he/she doesn’t touch to other person’s hand, arm etc.
    2) and when one plans to bow, he/she reads the other party’s attitude because a bow MUST be reciprocated, and only AFTER perceiving a confirmation proceeds – if you proceed alone, this is interpreted as rudeness or mockery -

    We got some cultural ambassadors, here, don’t we – I remember Michelle grabbing the Queen’s shoulder as well -
67. On November 14th, 2009 at 8:18 pm , NewEnglandPatriot said...

    If we don’t do something soon, we will all be killed. If Obama is actually HELPING the enemy, which I suspect he is, then there will be a lot of information coming out of the trial to move their agenda forward and launch another large-scale attack.

    What is it going to take for Obama to be stopped? There are 305,000,000 of us and 546 of THEM…(Congress, Obama and the Supreme Court). If Obama is removed from office, then all of his appointees become illegitimate as well.

    If people can’t see what Obama and Eric Holder are doing, they’re blind. I know we’re leaving the Northeast, and soon. I don’t want to be here when all —- breaks loose.
68. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:07 pm , Phil said...

    siseduermapierda,

    This is exactly what our Constitution prescribes:

    Article III, Section 2:

    “The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed; but when not committed within any state, the trial shall be at such place or places as the Congress may by law have directed.”

    You believe in the Constitution don’t you? Then let it work for us. We could have had these guys tried and convicted years ago, and probably executed by now, if the Bush Administration had just followed the Constitution. Holding people for 8+ years without even charging them with a crime is beneath us. Due Process, Trial By Jury. This case will show the world we believe in our system of justice, that it works, and that even in the face of a hideous crime, we are a nation of laws.

    Please show me where the Constitution applies to individuals who are not American citizens.

    Let’s take this a step further:

    Please show me where the Constitution applies to individuals who are not only not American citizens, but are also terrorists whose sole mission with respect to such terrorism is to completely obliterate the nation.

    Really, I don’t expect you to actually answer these questions. My mind is already completely made up. The son-of-a-b**** is responsible for the deaths of approximately 3,000 civilians (their actual nationalities or possible military links are irrelevant in this situation). There is only one way to deal with this kind of scum:

    Kill him the same way he lead the killing of so many others: throw him solo into an airplane and aim that plane straight into a large enough object that will instantaneously cause the airplane to burst into flames upon impact.

    -Phil
69. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:12 pm , Phil said...

    jvn,

    Hey Phil,

    Are you happy with the right wing views being posted on your board?

    Bet you appreciate us “obamatons” a bit more now, right?

    I’m just waiting for you to read my comment made just before this one; I have a feeling you’re really going to appreciate it.

    Other than that, regarding this posting, I could not agree with Gov. Palin more:

    Hang ‘em high.

    And do it publicly and quickly.

    -Phil
70. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:18 pm , Phil said...

    siseduermapierda,

    misanthropicus says:
    November 14, 2009 at 11:58 am
    *it’s an authentic act of sedition*

    It’s an act of patriotism because it follows the Constitution. You should be proud your government has decided to follow the Constitution. Of course, if you’ve never read it, but you claim to stand for it, here is what the Constitution has to say:

    Article III, Sec 2 -
    “The trial of all crimes, except in the case of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed.”

    Amendment V -
    No PERSON shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

    Amendment VI –
    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him,; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

    Amendment VIII –
    Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

    Amendment XIV -
    No state shall make or enforce any law which…deprive any PERSON of life, liberty or property without due process of law; nor deny to any PERSON within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    NOTE TO TMINU: These are not reserved to Citizens, they say PERSON. That means ANYONE.

    Excellent. Now you’re delving into opinions on the Constitution.

    So, in this case, please show me the SCOTUS decision(s) whereby Supreme Court Justice(s) have ruled that any or all of the Constitution applies to non-American citizens (of any sort) and/or terrorists and/or enemies of the country.

    Armchair opinions don’t mean squat until you can show an official opinion as deliberated by the Judiciary.

    -Phil
71. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:20 pm , Pat Smith said...

    Phil says:
    November 14, 2009 at 11:07 pm

    Kill him the same way he lead the killing of so many others: throw him solo into an airplane and aim that plane straight into a large enough object that will instantaneously cause the airplane to burst into flames upon impact.

    ———————————————————–

    Phil, That would be a waste of an airplane. I vote for beheading him the same way Danny Pearl and Nick Berg were beheaded.

    Also, if, per chance this Terrorist wins an acquittal, I vote to send him to Siseduermapierda’s neighborhood so she can nurture him.

    SisBoomBa…Change We Can Believe In…Yes, We Can
72. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:29 pm , keokuk said...

    So, in this case, please show me the SCOTUS decision(s) whereby Supreme Court Justice(s) have ruled that any or all of the Constitution applies to non-American citizens (of any sort) and/or terrorists and/or enemies of the country.

    Could you clarify your specific question? Are you asking for a case explicitly stating that all of the Constitution applies to non-American citizens, or just certain relevant parts?

    My first instinct is to point to Boumediene v. Bush, 128 S. Ct. 2299, 2262 (2008). In Justice Kennedy’s opinion for the Court, he wrote: “It is true that before today the Court has never held that noncitizens detained by our Government in territory over which another country maintains de jure sovereignty have any rights under our Constitution. But the cases before us lack any precise historical parallel. They involve individuals detained by executive order for the duration of a conflict that, if measured from September 11, 2001, to the present, is already among the longest wars in American history. The detainees, moreover, are held in a territory that, while technically not part of the United States, is under the complete and total control of our Government. Under these circumstances the lack of a precedent on point is no barrier to our holding. We hold that Art. I, § 9, cl. 2, of the Constitution has full effect at Guantanamo Bay. If the privilege of habeas corpus is to be denied to the detainees now before us, Congress must act in accordance with the requirements of the Suspension Clause.”
73. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:41 pm , Phil said...

    keokuk,

    So, in this case, please show me the SCOTUS decision(s) whereby Supreme Court Justice(s) have ruled that any or all of the Constitution applies to non-American citizens (of any sort) and/or terrorists and/or enemies of the country.

    Could you clarify your specific question? Are you asking for a case explicitly stating that all of the Constitution applies to non-American citizens, or just certain relevant parts?

    My first instinct is to point to Boumediene v. Bush, 128 S. Ct. 2299, 2262 (2008). In Justice Kennedy’s opinion for the Court, he wrote: “It is true that before today the Court has never held that noncitizens detained by our Government in territory over which another country maintains de jure sovereignty have any rights under our Constitution. But the cases before us lack any precise historical parallel. They involve individuals detained by executive order for the duration of a conflict that, if measured from September 11, 2001, to the present, is already among the longest wars in American history. The detainees, moreover, are held in a territory that, while technically not part of the United States, is under the complete and total control of our Government. Under these circumstances the lack of a precedent on point is no barrier to our holding. We hold that Art. I, § 9, cl. 2, of the Constitution has full effect at Guantanamo Bay. If the privilege of habeas corpus is to be denied to the detainees now before us, Congress must act in accordance with the requirements of the Suspension Clause.”

    Great start. So, with respect to Congress, if habeas corpus is suspended, exactly how is it that “Congress must act?”

    -Phil
74. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:51 pm , misanthropicus said...

    RE jvn:

    [...] Hey Phil, Are you happy with the right wing views being posted on your board? Bet you appreciate us “obamatons” a bit more now, right? [...]

    Hey, Jvn:

    1) Buddy, I bring to your attention that I just integrated you in a new zoological category: Obamatons (a term of mine also), a subclass of Hyenas –
    Print a T shirt for yourself with this logo -

    2) [...] right wing views being posted on your board? [...]
    Jvn, bellow is a Time On line link that leads to an article that shows that those who post here “right wing views” are remarkably standard Americans, and that the loons and creeps are actually you, Obamatons (a Hyena subclass):

    Read this:
    “Fury at plan to try September 11 mastermind near Ground Zero”/Tim Reid in Washington

    The self-confessed mastermind of the September 11 terror attacks and four alleged co-conspirators are to be moved from Guantánamo Bay and tried in a civilian court in New York. The move was denounced angrily yesterday by victims’ relatives and Republicans on Capitol Hill.

    The extraordinary announcement of the trial was made by Eric Holder, the Attorney-General, who said that he would seek the death penalty for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four others when they face prosecution in a court in lower Manhattan.

    The court sits a few blocks from where the twin towers collapsed after the 2001 attack and where nearly 3,000 people died. The trial will prove to be an enormous legal, political and popular test of President Obama’s methods of dealing with terrorism.

    The cases will be beset by evidence problems, not least because Mohammed was tortured by the CIA soon after his capture in Pakistan. He was subjected to simulated drowning (waterboarding) 183 times in March 2003, making any evidence obtained from him then, and since, almost definitely inadmissible. [...]

    Mr Holder said that he would not be bringing the prosecutions unless he thought the outcome would be successful. He added that he had seen evidence not in the public domain that bolstered such confidence. He said that the men would be charged with masterminding and carrying out the September 11 attacks and “I fully expect to direct prosecutors to seek the death penalty”.

    Yet trials are unpredictable, and Mr Holder did not address what would happen to Mohammed if he was acquitted and presumably allowed, under US law, to walk free. [...]
    more@
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us

    ———-*————–

    [...] and Mr Holder did not address what would happen to Mohammed if he was acquitted [...]

    … situation whose first phase has already & INTENTIONALLY fulfilled by Obama and Holder by moving the trial to NYC, the MSM and you, Obamatons (a subclass of Hyena), steadfastly working for the scheme’s accomplishment -

    I insist on my previous “situation whose first phase has already & INTENTIONALLY fulfilled by Obama and Holder” and bellow is Roger Kimball’s (PJM) excellent description of the larger design behind this misery:

    “This administration is devoted to transforming the jihadist war against the West into a civilian conflict.”
    PJM, “Fort Hood, KSM, and Obama’s 9/11 mentality”
    http://pajamasmedia.com/
75. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:51 pm , jvn said...

    Phil -

    You know darned well that I was talking about the hate filled rhetoric that your compadres here have been spewing.

    They are accusing a whole lot of people of treason and seeking further terrorist attacks on this country.

    But, in reading your responses, it seems that you are of a mind with them, apparently believing that many of your fellow Americans are terrorist sympathizers.

    I pity the lot of you for your shallowness of thought and the emptiness in your souls.
76. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:55 pm , jvn said...

    Miss, let’s be clear on something.

    I am NOT your “buddy.”

    You may not have faith in the American Justice system, but I and many others do.

    Fortunately, the majority in the country agrees with me…
77. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:55 pm , Pat Smith said...

    Jvn….Good grief….do you want some Cheese with your Whine?

    If you do not like what is Posted on this Board you can always find another venue.
78. On November 14th, 2009 at 11:58 pm , keokuk said...

    Great start. So, with respect to Congress, if habeas corpus is suspended, exactly how is it that “Congress must act?”

    Justice Kennedy is saying that only Congress can suspend habeas corpus, through the means provided in the Suspension Clause. The clause states: “The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.” (Perhaps it was unclear because I quoted the opinion out of context. But it has been well-established since the Civil War that only Congress can suspend habeas.)

    In order to constitutionally suspend habeas rights, there must be a rebellion or invasion. There’s actually a very good discussion of it in the context of an American citizen being held at Guantanamo Bay in Justice Scalia’s dissenting opinion in Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 542 U.S. 507, 554 (2004).
79. On November 15th, 2009 at 12:07 am , misanthropicus said...

    For BL Re Obama’s popularity:

    Viral Prayer For Obama:”Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8 – LOL” (We do not endorse this prayer):

    From Audacity Of Hypocrisy:

    Posted by adminat November 14, 2009:
    A friend and I were away for the weekend and we left to come home on Sunday. Traffic was moving slow & a car in front of us had an Obama bumper sticker on it. It read: “Pray for Obama. Psalm 109:8″.

    His bible was lying on the dash board & he got it & opened it up to the scripture & read it. He started laughing & laughing. Then he read it to me. I couldn’t believe what it said. I had a good laugh, too. Psalm 109:8 “Let his days be few; and let another take his office. ”
    http://www.audacityofhypocrisy.com/
80. On November 15th, 2009 at 12:20 am , Phil said...

    jvn,

    Phil -

    You know darned well that I was talking about the hate filled rhetoric that your compadres here have been spewing.

    They are accusing a whole lot of people of treason and seeking further terrorist attacks on this country.

    But, in reading your responses, it seems that you are of a mind with them, apparently believing that many of your fellow Americans are terrorist sympathizers.

    I pity the lot of you for your shallowness of thought and the emptiness in your souls.

    My rational response to the above: Yeah, and?

    My irrational response to the above: I’m picturing the above being said by a native French individual head and nose up in the air sounding very nasal.

    -Phil
81. On November 15th, 2009 at 1:18 am , tminu said...

    Holder’s Hidden Agenda [Andy McCarthy]

    This summer, I theorized that Attorney General Eric Holder — and his boss — had a hidden agenda in ordering a re-investigation of the CIA for six-year-old alleged interrogation excesses that had already been scrutinized by non-partisan DOJ prosecutors who had found no basis for prosecution. The continuing investigations of Bush-era counterterrorism policies (i.e., the policies that kept us safe from more domestic terror attacks), coupled with the Holder Justice Department’s obsession to disclose classified national-defense information from that period, enable Holder to give the hard Left the “reckoning” that he and Obama promised during the 2008 campaign. It would be too politically explosive for Obama/Holder to do the dirty work of charging Bush administration officials; but as new revelations from investigations and declassifications are churned out, Leftist lawyers use them to urge European and international tribunals to bring “torture” and “war crimes” indictments. Thus, administration cooperation gives Obama’s base the reckoning it demands but Obama gets to deny responsibility for any actual prosecutions.

    Today’s announcement that KSM and other top al-Qaeda terrorists will be transferred to Manhattan federal court for civilian trials neatly fits this hidden agenda. Nothing results in more disclosures of government intelligence than civilian trials. They are a banquet of information, not just at the discovery stage but in the trial process itself, where witnesses — intelligence sources — must expose themselves and their secrets.

    Let’s take stock of where we are at this point. KSM and his confederates wanted to plead guilty and have their martyrs’ execution last December, when they were being handled by military commission. As I said at the time, we could and should have accommodated them. The Obama administration could still accommodate them. After all, the president has not pulled the plug on all military commissions: Holder is going to announce at least one commission trial (for Nashiri, the Cole bomber) today.

    Moreover, KSM has no defense. He was under American indictment for terrorism for years before there ever was a 9/11, and he can’t help himself but brag about the atrocities he and his fellow barbarians have carried out.

    So: We are now going to have a trial that never had to happen for defendants who have no defense. And when defendants have no defense for their own actions, there is only one thing for their lawyers to do: put the government on trial in hopes of getting the jury (and the media) spun up over government errors, abuses and incompetence. That is what is going to happen in the trial of KSM et al. It will be a soapbox for al-Qaeda’s case against America. Since that will be their “defense,” the defendants will demand every bit of information they can get about interrogations, renditions, secret prisons, undercover operations targeting Muslims and mosques, etc., and — depending on what judge catches the case — they are likely to be given a lot of it. The administration will be able to claim that the judge, not the administration, is responsible for the exposure of our defense secrets. And the circus will be played out for all to see — in the middle of the war. It will provide endless fodder for the transnational Left to press its case that actions taken in America’s defense are violations of international law that must be addressed by foreign courts. And the intelligence bounty will make our enemies more efficient at killing us.
82. On November 15th, 2009 at 1:25 am , Black Lion said...

    JeffM says:
    November 14, 2009 at 4:31 pm

    This is not a criminal matter. It is a military one because the attacks were considered an “Act of War” against the United States. If it was a criminal matter, then the attacks could not have been considered an act of war like it was, and therefore Soetoro couldn’t use it as a crutch to keep troops in countries in the Far East for the sake of combatting criminal Al Qaeda organizations.

    Even if what Soetoro was doing was Constitional, it would be Unconstitutional until a decision is made by the Supreme Court against the Constitutionality of the Military Commissions Act of 2006. It’s not Constitutional until the law is repealed.
    ___________________________________________________________________
    Everyone seems to forget that we have tried terrorists here in the federal system before. And we have tried ones that had not committed crimes in the US or who were not captured in the US. So what is the difference now? Because Obama is now the President and it is about being against anything he is for?

    Let us take a look at the past…

    “Zacarias Moussaoui tried, convicted, and imprisoned through federal justice system. Moussaoui was found guilty by a federal court jury for his role in the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. As The New York Times reported, the jury voted “to send him to prison for the rest of his days rather than condemn him to death for the carnage of Sept. 11, 2001.” Moussaoui is serving his sentence at the ADX Florence prison, commonly referred to as Supermax, in Florence, Colorado.”

    I believe that this happened under former President Bush. I don’t recall anyone calling Bush a traitor and saying that he was trying to help the terrorists…Interesting…

    “Shoe bomber” Richard Reid is serving life sentence in Colorado. On January 31, 2003, as The New York Times reported, Richard Reid pleaded guilty in federal court “to trying to blow up a trans-Atlantic flight with explosives concealed in his shoes” and “was sentenced today to life in prison.” Reid had claimed “he was a member of Al Qaeda.” Reid is serving his sentence at the Supermax facility in Florence.”

    Again under Bush and tried in federal court….Interesting…

    “John Walker Lindh serving sentence in Indiana. As CNN.com reported, on October 4, 2002, “Walker Lindh, the so-called ‘Taliban American,’ told U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III that he ‘made a mistake by joining the Taliban’ and ‘had I realized then what I know now about the Taliban I would never have joined them,’ ” before being sentenced for his crimes. CNN.com reported that in July, Lindh pleaded “guilty to one count of supplying services to the Taliban and a criminal charge that he carried a rifle and two hand grenades while fighting on the Taliban’s front lines in Afghanistan against the Northern Alliance.” Lindh was once held at the Supermax facility and is now being held at the Federal Correctional Institute in Terre Haute, Indiana.”

    Again tried in federal court and convicted. And Lindh was captured in Afganistan…Again no outcry…

    “East African embassy bombing perpetrators were tried in U.S. and held at Supermax. As the National Security Network has noted, “Wahid el-Hage, Mohammed Sadiq Odeh, Mohammed Rashed al-Owhali, and Khalfan Khamis Mohammed are all serving in ADX Florence.” The New York Times reported that the four men, who were “convicted of conspiring with Osama bin Laden in the 1998 bombings of two American Embassies in Africa,” were “moved to the most secure federal prison in the United States.” The men were indicted in 1998 under the Clinton administration and tried, convicted, and sentenced in 2001.”

    “First World Trade Center bomber, Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, was tried and convicted in the federal justice system. Ramzi Ahmed Yousef was found guilty of conspiring to bomb airlines on September 5, 1996, and was convicted on November 12, 1997, of, in the words of The New York Times, “directing and helping carry out” the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. The New York Times separately reported on January 9, 1998, that “Ramzi Ahmed Yousef, the man who masterminded the World Trade Center bombing five years ago, was sentenced yesterday to spend life plus 240 years in prison.” Yousef reportedly is being held at the Supermax facility in Colorado.”

    “Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman was tried and convicted in federal court and is serving sentence in federal prison. As The New York Times reported, “Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and nine other militant Muslims were convicted” on October 1, 1995, “of conspiring to carry out a terrorist campaign of bombings and assassinations intended to destroy the United Nations and New York landmarks, kill hundreds of people and force America to abandon its support for Israel and Egypt.” A January 1996 New York Times article reported: “Last October, culminating a nearly nine-month trial, a Federal jury convicted Mr. Abdel Rahman and the nine others of planning to wage a ‘war of urban terrorism’ against America, whose central element was to have been a cataclysmic day of terror in and around New York City: five bombs that were to blow up the United Nations Building, the Lincoln and Holland Tunnels, the George Washington Bridge and the main Federal office building in Manhattan.” Rahman was sentenced to life in prison and reportedly is serving his term at the Supermax facility in Colorado.”

    It looks like the Federal Court system has done a pretty good job of convicting terrorists without any problems. I don’t see any recruiting in the prisons or anyone breaking out of the prison. It is interesting that now we have all of these concerns that we did not have with these other cases…

    Also an interesting article from Slate….

    There are already more than 350 terrorists in U.S. prisons; none has ever escaped. According to data from the U.S. Bureau of Prisons, “federal facilities on American soil currently house 216 international terrorists and 139 domestic terrorists. Some of these miscreants have been locked up here since the early 1990s. None of them has escaped. At the most secure prisons, nobody has ever escaped.”

    http://www.slate.com/id/2219268/
83. On November 15th, 2009 at 1:43 am , Black Lion said...

    For those who say that being in Gitmo is worse that being in a prison here in the US, lets take a look at that…

    “The 490-bed prison, formally known as the Administrative Maximum Facility, holds some of the country’s most infamous prisoners, including Mohammed’s nephew Ramzi Yousef, who was convicted in the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center; the Unabomber, Theodore J. Kaczynski; FBI agent-turned-Soviet mole Robert P. Hanssen; and Terry L. Nichols, who was convicted in the 1995 bombing of an Oklahoma City federal building. Thirty-three international terrorists are held there.”

    “Based on what is known about restrictions in the country’s highest-security federal prisons, Mohammed and other terrorism suspects would face profound isolation in the United States.”

    “If sent to a facility such as the federal supermax prison in Florence, Colo., they would be sealed off for 23 hours a day in cells with four-inch-wide windows and concrete furniture. If they behave, and are allowed an hour’s exercise each day in a tiny yard, they will do so alone. They will have little or no human contact except with prison officials. And the International Committee of the Red Cross, the only outside group with access to Camp 7, will no longer have contact with them.”

    “You will die with a whimper,” U.S. District Judge Leonie M. Brinkema told Zacarias Moussaoui, before the Sept. 11 conspirator was taken to the supermax facility in Florence to serve a life sentence. “You will never again get a chance to speak.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/10/03/AR2009100303028.html?sid=ST2009100303034

    Interesting article from a Navy lawyer regarding this issue…

    In an October 29 NPR interview, Charles Swift, an attorney who took the case of a Guantánamo detainee to the Supreme Court in 2006, said that “[a]nyone knowledgeable about al-Qaida operations will tell you that there is no increased threat posed to the United States by bringing some of the detainees to the U.S. for trial.” Swift added that “[Suspected terrorists] Ali Saleh Kahlah al-Marri, Yaser Esam Hamdi and Jose Padilla were held and, in Hamdi and al-Marri’s case, eventually tried in the United States without any consequence.”

    “There is no increased threat posed to the United States by bringing some of the detainees to the U.S. for trial.”

    So what we have is 2 schools of thought. Some experts believe that the best thing is that we try these evil individuals here in the US and either put them to death or in prison for the rest of their lives, just like we have done with others in the past. Others think they should stay in Gitmo forever or try them in front of a military tribunal. Either way for some here to imply that this is some conspiracy by our President to help the terrorists or that Eric Holder is trying to bring down our country is ridiculous. The hate of the President has allowed every decision to become partisan and divide this country in ways that may take years to heal.

    At the end of the day it is the decision of the President. Just like President Bush made decisions that some may have disagreed with, no one assumed that he had anything less that the best interests of the country at heart. But the birthers and other wingnuts have taking hatred to another level to make ever decision about the President hating or undermining the United States.
84. On November 15th, 2009 at 5:32 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

    See the bigger picture, you guys are actually talking about the historic Antichrist, Obama.

    Check out my page; three new links today

    1. Obama’s Jewish link to brother
    2. Obama’s so-called Jewish link to fake antisemite cousin
    3. meteorite announcing the Antichrist Obama – the
    21st century’s longest total solar exclipse.

    http://www.youtube.com/user/EndOfTimesApocalypse
85. On November 15th, 2009 at 8:03 am , Sharon 2 said...

    Just like President Bush made decisions that some may have disagreed with, no one assumed that he had anything less that the best interests of the country at heart.

    No one?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
86. On November 15th, 2009 at 8:48 am , Sharon 2 said...

    People can oppose Obama for reasons other than race. No other President was asked about birth but there was never any questions about place of birth or the nationality of the parents. Leo made this statement on his blog about Chester Arthur:

    Thank you for ignoring the important fact of American history unearthed by this blog in December 2008 when we exposed that Chester Arthur lied about his parents heritage and that his lie kept the nation from knowing that he was a British subject at the time of his birth. Your mention of him in Footnote 16 makes it appear as if the nation was aware of Chester Arthur’s dual nationality, but there was not one single reference to this fact in all of American recorded history until that news was broken here. Your decision gives our work true meaning and depth. For anyone who has come into contact with our reporting thereto knows – whether they support Obama or not – that you have disgraced your robes and oaths by playing fanciful with the facts and portraying that which was hidden from the voters, the media and American history – until we discovered it last year – as if it were known to the public at large the whole time. Your disgrace is my potential realized.

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/11/14/thank-you-from-leo-donofrio-to-the-indiana-court-of-appeals/#comments

    Can you refute this with proof?

    In the last presidential election cycle, McCain’s eligibility was questioned, as it should have been. I don’t think Berg was in the picture until after the McCain eligibility question, and he supported Hillary. He obviously did not support Bush. He was a truther, not a racist. I have a friend who is a truther. We disagree completely with each other about Bush, but she is not a racist to any degree. I supported Alan Keyes when he ran, but I thought no one would ever go along with the radical changes he was proposing (getting rid of the Federal Income Tax). How was anyone to know what was going to occur in 2009 with government takeover of automobile companies and everything else going on? I am sorry that I didn;t take more stock in Keyes’ proposals for radical change.

    The McCain eligibility issue never received an official answer before the election. There still is no answer. The Ankeny decision is not binding.

    Eligibility is not about race. Because of the changing demographics of our country, the issue was bound to arise.

    IF you check out this transcript of the oral argument before the Supreme Court, you’ll clearly notice that Justice Ginsberg, when discussing the issue of presidential eligibility, focused on her grandson, not any kind of legal reasoning. She ASSUMED that children born of American parents overseas were considered natural born without any explanation as to why, except that she was worried about grandsonny (later she even worried that he could be denaturalized.) Justice Breyer was not so direct in his familial reasoning, but he indicated his daughter was born overseas. He was talking about the issue at hand wheras J. Ginsberg spoke off issue on the matter.

    Justice Breyer: The problem with those things is usually, is insofar as you get a lesser degree of, for example, procedural protections, in certain instances there are conflicts about what the facts are, and insofar, if it is ever true that a person who is involved in naturalization gets less than full judicial review, would that same be true of, say, my daughter or millions of others, say, servicemen’s children who are born abroad and who the children of servicemen and women who are abroad and not born in the United States?

    http://www.oyez.org/cases/2000-2009/2000/2000_99_2071/argument
    I didn’t read the opinion, but it appeared J. Scalia was concerned about the seeming unfairness of military children born overseas being disqualified from running for president in the case mentioned by Judge Carter. Whether that would tip him into defining a NBC as jus sanguinis, I don’t know. I think he would write that it is up to Congress to handle the issue of military children deemed NBC. I’ll have to look up what he said in that case. I am going by what I remember from the case before Judge Carter.
87. On November 15th, 2009 at 8:57 am , Sharon 2 said...

    I think Breyer’s wife may be British as well. I can’t tell for sure from what I have read.
88. On November 15th, 2009 at 9:06 am , siseduermapierda said...

    Phil says:
    November 14, 2009 at 11:18 pm

    There’s no need to cite SC opinions. It’s right in the Constitution. The article and amendments I cited refer to “persons” not just citizens. It is a sad reflection on your knowledge of the law in this country that you insist that non-citizens are not entitled to due process. Non-citizens are given due process every day in this country. The Constitution applies to anyone within its jurisdiction. And the 5 being brought to NYC for trial are within the jurisdiction of the United States because they are accused of committing crimes on US soil. The precedents are every non-citizen arrested and tried in this country especially those non-citizens already convicted of terrorism like Moussaui and Sheik Rahmed. They were given due process and found guilty nonetheless. The federal prosecutors have a 100% conviction rate of terrorists, military commissions – 0%, in 8 years they haven’t convicted a single person. I like the odds in federal court. And it follows Article III, Section 2 of the Constitution – ” the trial of all crimes, except impeachment, shall be by jury…shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed.” Our Constitution could not be more clear on this issue. And it certainly doesn’t distinguish between citizens and non-citizens. Read your Constitution. It doesn’t give rights to anyone. It prescribes what the government may and may not do. The 5th amendment is especially clear ” No PERSON shall be… deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.” Shout to the mountains ” but but but, persons means citizens”. You will look like a dumba$$.
89. On November 15th, 2009 at 9:11 am , Sue said...

    “Armchair opinions don’t mean squat until you can show an official opinion as deliberated by the Judiciary”

    How many birther cases have been dismissed now by how many judges who have all pretty much provided the same decision; yet, “patriots” don’t appear to respect the Judiciary either, now do they because they keep going back to the “armchair opinions” of Donofrio, Apuzzo, Taitz, Keys, Berg, Dumbar, etc., etc. who have provided nothing more than “armchair opinions”, and are not constitutional lawyers or experts to begin with.

    Amazing.
90. On November 15th, 2009 at 10:40 am , misanthropicus said...

    … and then, Obama’s perverse timing of this operation, Holder triggering the explosion exactly when he is/will be safely away, at the antipodes, engaged in some upliftng business – yes, Obama’s style is identical with a terrorist recruiter’s scheme:

    1) After identifying Holder as fit for the job,
    2) after prepping him with more motivating speeches,
    3) after prividing him with the dynamite-lined jacket and the clear details and timing of his mission,
    4) then setting him on his trajectory,
    5) Obama quickly took off, away, to a remote, safe place from where to assist via TV at Holder fulfilling his destructive assignement…

    Obama certainly has studied the terrorist recruiter’s manual and has absorbed a few notions about how to properly run such an operation -

    Which shows again how dangerous can be a man like Obama (who harbors so much antipathy for America and the Western World), when an accident brings him in the proximity of our national security switches –

    We’ll see more of these – after all aren’t we living a transformational presidency?
91. On November 15th, 2009 at 10:52 am , Observer said...

    yet, “patriots” don’t appear to respect the Judiciary either

    You appear to wish everyone to make some kind of idol out of the “Judiciary” to the point of worship and deny its very purpose to serve justice. Those being served have every right to pursue justice within the openings they find within the law. We should all fear such prejudicial desire for power of control through and by those who should be the most benign in their overseeing of the plights of plaintiffs through a required blindness. Shame on you who would force such an imbalance in the scales against the citizenry who depend on truthful consideration under the Constitution. Apparently your “Judiciary” is beyond ignorance and grave error itself. You had better study your history more thoroughly. Others refuse to adopt the lemming approach.
92. On November 15th, 2009 at 11:05 am , Sue said...

    Observer,

    “You appear to wish everyone to make some kind of idol out of the “Judiciary” to the point of worship and deny its very purpose to serve justice. Those being served have every right to pursue justice within the openings they find within the law. We should all fear such prejudicial desire for power of control through and by those who should be the most benign in their overseeing of the plights of plaintiffs through a required blindness. Shame on you who would force such an imbalance in the scales against the citizenry who depend on truthful consideration under the Constitution. Apparently your “Judiciary” is beyond ignorance and grave error itself. You had better study your history more thoroughly. Others refuse to adopt the lemming approach.”

    You should study your Constitution more thoroughly. Shame on you.
93. On November 15th, 2009 at 11:20 am , misanthropicus said...

    RE Sue, Sise, and other Obamatons (a subclass of Hyenas) -

    Looking at the recent posts on this thread, I found it funny (or sinister?) how the Obamatons are constantly trying to railroad the discussion about this horrible decision in technical, i.e. constitutional details – and their exercise perfectly announces the direction the terro-s trials will take, constitutional ratiocinating irreversibly substituting the authentic issues -

    Yes, the 9/11 terro-s will walk out free, and will be granted substantial repairs for the abuse and injustice they suffered –

    The city of New York and the families of the 9/11 victims to foot the bill -
94. On November 15th, 2009 at 12:15 pm , misanthropicus said...

    … and the greatest irony of all is that all the terro-s who declared themselves as BELONGING TO AND SERVING NO COUNTRY have received the benefits (and many & obvious they are), of being treated AS US CITIZENS from no other person THAN OBAMA, whose citizenship status is UNCERTAIN, and whose presidential legitimacy is EVEN MORE UNCERTAIN -
95. On November 15th, 2009 at 12:20 pm , siseduermapierda said...

    misanthropicus says:
    November 15, 2009 at 11:20 am
    *Obamatons are constantly trying to railroad the discussion about this horrible decision in technical, i.e. constitutional details*

    We are a nation of laws. What other way is their to discuss this than in terms of the technical aspects of the law and the Constitution that prescribes exactly what Holder decided to do:

    “The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury…and such trial shall be held in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed.”

    You want to couch it in terms of your thumb-sucking fear of the “terrists”. Let KSM try to grandstand. Have you seen him lately? He has become a laughable caricature of crazy fundamentalist muslim hatred gone wrong. Let him harangue all he wants about the evil Americans, the only downside will be when he mentions how the CIA tortured him. Are you afraid our system of justice can’t stand up to the likes of KSM? How little faith you have in your country and its laws and its beautiful Constitution. And yet, you describe yourselves as patriots.
96. On November 15th, 2009 at 12:51 pm , kj said...

    All posturing for political advantage or to punish members of the Bush administration: the country and Constitution be damned!

    See this video of Senator Obama in 2006:

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/11/senator_obama_in_2006_try_ksm.html
97. On November 15th, 2009 at 12:56 pm , Black Lion said...

    misanthropicus says:
    November 15, 2009 at 11:20 am
    RE Sue, Sise, and other Obamatons (a subclass of Hyenas) -

    Looking at the recent posts on this thread, I found it funny (or sinister?) how the Obamatons are constantly trying to railroad the discussion about this horrible decision in technical, i.e. constitutional details – and their exercise perfectly announces the direction the terro-s trials will take, constitutional ratiocinating irreversibly substituting the authentic issues -

    Yes, the 9/11 terro-s will walk out free, and will be granted substantial repairs for the abuse and injustice they suffered –
    __________________________________________________________________
    I am curious. As I pointed out earlier in the thread that the federal government has prosecuted many terrorists that had no country affiliation and no one had a problem when whe did that before. We convicted the so called 20th hijacker. We convicted Richard Reid. So what is the problem now? Do you have so little confidence in our judical system? And we convicted many non-citizens of crimes in this country so to all of a sudden say that the Constitution does not apply to non-citizens is foolish. It is interesting that no one here can refute the fact that the US has convicted terrorists in the past. The people that are against the President ignore that simple fact. So ask yourself, what is different now? The only thing different is who the President is.
98. On November 15th, 2009 at 1:33 pm , Kenneth said...

    I have seen the AG on television guaranteeing that the perpetrators will be found guilty. How does he know this? Is some sort of fix in? Has the Jury already been selected?

    Remember almost everyone believed that O.J. killed his wife, but he was not found guilty because a glove, which he would have worn on his bare hands, did not fit easily when it was tried on in the court room with O.J wearing protective latex (or some other material) gloves to preserve the evidence.

    What does the AG know, and if he has advance knowledge, would real justice be served?
99. On November 15th, 2009 at 1:41 pm , misanthropicus said...

    Obama apologizing for Pearl Harbor, Midway and Hiroshima!
    Obama licking shoes in Tokyo! More later!

    “How Low Will He Go?”
    Excellent text & juxtaposition of pictures in LA Times (of all!) of Obama & mikado and Dick Cheney & mikado – Cheney is class act.

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html
100. On November 15th, 2009 at 1:55 pm , Black Lion said...

     From today’s Washington Post….Good Article…

     “Part of the Obama administration’s message is a symbolic break with the most controversial policies of President George W. Bush. Where Bush used the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, as a fortress against domestic and international law, President Obama is bringing the Sept. 11 defendants into independent constitutional courts.”

     “But Friday’s announcement that the cases of Mohammed and four other accused Sept. 11 plotters would be tried in civilian court brought no broad departure from Bush’s legal bequest. Holder and Obama have only gradually shifted course from “never” to “hardly ever” in granting Guantanamo Bay detainees access to what the attorney general described as a 200-year-old tradition of “faithful adherence to the rule of law” in the judicial branch.”

     “Bush allowed more than 800 terrorism indictments to be handed up by federal grand juries, resisting constitutional protections only for those he declared to be “unlawful enemy combatants.” The current administration has granted such rights to six of the 241 detainees who were at Guantanamo Bay when Obama took office, and senior government lawyers have said there is next to no prospect of bringing more than 20 more to trial in any tribunal, civilian or military.”

     “For all that, according to Georgetown University law professor David Cole, Mohammed’s civilian trial marks “a sea change, and an extremely important one, because it’s absolutely critical that whatever sentence is imposed . . . be seen around the world as legitimate and not fixed, and the military commissions have been so fraught with difficulties that the presumption in world opinion is that they are going to be unfair.”

     “For a domestic audience, the case enables the government at last to hold someone responsible for the catastrophe. Prosecutors will tell a story of innocence and evil, of indiscriminate mass murder that struck down foreigners as well as Americans, Muslims as well as adherents of other faiths. Mohammed’s conviction would offer an antidote to the narrative of weakness that left the world’s last superpower helpless to find and punish the ultimate perpetrator of the crime, al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden.”

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/14/AR2009111402566.html?hpid=topnews
101. On November 15th, 2009 at 1:56 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE Black Lion:

     * [...] Do you have so little confidence in our judical system? [...]
     Our judicial system hasn’t been set up and honed just to ACCOMMODATE political moves like Obama’s instructing Holder to do, BL – and whether a trial in NY might do the job of a military commission is out of question, too.
     This move is a best a frivolous one – but as more and more people see it, it part and parcel of a larger political scheme.
     No need to add anything about this – check the outcry around the country regarding this. Also, Obama’s desigation of Holder as the fall guys speaks a lost about their worries about this issue, too.

     * [...] And we convicted many non-citizens of crimes in this country so to all of a sudden say that the Constitution does not apply to non-citizens is foolish. It is interesting that no one here can refute the fact that the US has convicted terrorists in the past. [...]
     Yeah, dope smuglers, big time schemers, murderers and a bunch of, thanks god! unsuccessful terrorists – but we never handled so big fish tlike the 9/11 crew who simply cannot be given the legal cover which we provide to someone who brought in the country 100 lb of coke.

     * [...] The only thing different is who the President is. [...]
     Here is where I agree with you. Obama is indeed an unique figure by his deep contempt for this nation and by his relentless work to ruin it in any possible manner – and the decision of moving the terros trial in Manhattan is an excellent illustration of this

     Best regards -
102. On November 15th, 2009 at 2:04 pm , keokuk said...

     Yeah, dope smuglers, big time schemers, murderers and a bunch of, thanks god! unsuccessful terrorists – but we never handled so big fish tlike the 9/11 crew who simply cannot be given the legal cover which we provide to someone who brought in the country 100 lb of coke.

     What do you mean “we never handled so big fish tlike the 9/11 crew who simply cannot be given the legal cover which we provide to someone who brought in the country 100 lb of coke”? Zacarias Moussaoui, the would-be 20th hijacker, was tried and convicted in a civilian court in Virginia. Was he not part of “the 9/11 crew”?
103. On November 15th, 2009 at 2:56 pm , GeorgetownJD said...

     Phil said:

     “What’s more, since a civilian Court would be given jurisdiction, that means that KSM shall have all of the Constitutional rights at trial that any other American citizen has.”

     Phil, remind me why this is a bad thing?
104. On November 15th, 2009 at 3:01 pm , misanthropicus said...

     The Commemorative Licking Shoes Tournament Hussein Obama continues:

     “Obama Refuses To Defend Bombing Of Hiroshima, Nagasaki”

     http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/11/13/obama_refuses_to_defend_bombing_of_hiroshima_nagasaki.ht

     Obama’s right – Pearl Harbor and Midway are other proof of the deep rottennness of this country -
105. On November 15th, 2009 at 3:17 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     misanthropicus says:
     November 15, 2009 at 1:56 pm
     *the outcry around the country*

     The only “outcry” is the whining from the thumb-sucking, bed-wetting cowards who bought into the Cheney/ neocon fear-mongering for 8 years and taught you when Cheney grimaced and said “terrists”, you were supposed to hide under your bed and snivel. We are going to try the mass murderers right here where they mass murdered thousands. That’s all they are is mass murderers, not some higher life with super powers.

     And to whoever tried to compare this to the OJ trial – the jurors in the OJ trial ignored the evidence. It was about getting back at the City of LA for the Rodney King riots, not about OJ. Blame Marcia Clark and Chris Darden for letting OJ try on a brittle, dried up glove.
106. On November 15th, 2009 at 4:01 pm , kj said...

     Phil: Please repost. I think this video needs exposure and the first comment is now buried by the flame wars which forced a new comments page. You might want to link to this video in an update. KJ

     All posturing for political advantage or to punish members of the Bush administration: the country and Constitution be damned!

     See this video of Senator Obama in 2006:

     http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/11/senator_obama_in_2006_try_ksm.html
107. On November 15th, 2009 at 4:12 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     kj says:
     November 15, 2009 at 4:01 pm
     *Constitution be damned!*

     Not at all. Obama is exactly following the Constitution.

     US Constitution Article III, Section 2
     “The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment shall be tried by a jury; and such trial shall be held in the state in which the crime shall have been committed.”

     As for your video, who really cares what the junior senator from Illinois said in 2006?
108. On November 15th, 2009 at 5:22 pm , Observer said...

     GeorgetownJD says:
     November 15, 2009 at 2:56 pm
     Phil said:

     “What’s more, since a civilian Court would be given jurisdiction, that means that KSM shall have all of the Constitutional rights at trial that any other American citizen has.”

     Phil, remind me why this is a bad thing?

     The operative words here being “any other American citizen” … meaning an anointing declaring citizenship on the man now? Forget the illegals even … just terrorize citizens and now you too can become one! Congratulations! And I’m afraid this will linger beyond just another of Andy’s “15 minutes of fame”!!
109. On November 15th, 2009 at 5:27 pm , Observer said...

     “For all that, according to Georgetown University law professor David Cole, Mohammed’s civilian trial marks “a sea change, and an extremely important one, because it’s absolutely critical that whatever sentence is imposed . . . be seen around the world as legitimate and not fixed, and the military commissions have been so fraught with difficulties that the presumption in world opinion is that they are going to be unfair.”

     No chance of another OJ then – to “be seen around the world as legitimate and not fixed!!! And gee, isn’t bowing enough in itself to convince “the rest of the world” of our “legitimacy” re: just about anything we do??!!
110. On November 15th, 2009 at 5:31 pm , Observer said...

     You should study your Constitution more thoroughly. Shame on you.

     No, the shame remains where it was original put. The Constitution does not suggest anyone idolize the judiciary nor should it assume itself such power of the like.
111. On November 15th, 2009 at 5:47 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE kj,

     You link is so good! While I feel a bit guilty (considering the ugly affair which is under this), I enjoyed it enormously

     Re-posting in progress -

     Thanks & best regards -
     —————*————–
     Hey Obamatons,
     you have a good day for proving you keen semantics:
     1) try to explain why the name of Obamizing or Holderizing do not mean gross opportunism and incompetence in the current American English –
     2) and also, why Obamaton does not mean grief as well -

     Heh-hehg-heh – still yelping about constitutionality? Heh-heh-heh -
112. On November 15th, 2009 at 5:50 pm , Observer said...

     Obama’s models for his Utopia AFTER that wealth is “spread around”:

     Venezuela’s President Hugo Chavez says he will join a team of Cuban scientists on flights to “bomb clouds” to create rain amid a severe drought that has aroused public anger due to water and electricity rationing.

     Chavez, who has asked Venezuelans to take three-minute showers to save water, said the Cubans had arrived in Venezuela and were preparing to fly specially equipped aircraft above the Orinoco river.

     Oh, and btw, remember, Cuba is itself running out of toilet paper!!!

     The government has been criticized for, poor planning after it was forced to impose strict water rationing in the capital Caracas and power rationing in other parts of the country.
113. On November 15th, 2009 at 6:10 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE siseduermapierda:

     1) [...] The only “outcry” is the whining from the thumb-sucking, bed-wetting cowards who bought into the Cheney/ neocon fear-mongering for 8 years and taught you when Cheney grimaced and said “terrists”, you were supposed to hide under your bed and snivel. We are going to try the mass murderers right here where they mass murdered thousands. That’s all they are is mass murderers, not some higher life with super powers. [...]
     * Siserda at his most cryptic -

     2) [...] And to whoever tried to compare this to the OJ trial – the jurors in the OJ trial ignored the evidence. [...] Blame Marcia Clark and Chris Darden for letting OJ try on a brittle, dried up glove. [...]
     * Siser, we’ll have the opportunity to assist at more convinging demonstrations of innocence in NYC than pulling a glove on a hand. By the way, actually it wasn’t a little glove – the thing was that OJ had stopped for weeks before to take his arthritis medicine, the effect being swollen hands – nice trick -

     If it doesn’t fit acquit – and you, Obamatons, you are part and parcel of this already rigged, fraudulent and destructive arrangement of moving this trial from military jurisdiction under civilian authority -

     What a mockery!
114. On November 15th, 2009 at 6:21 pm , Observer said...

     Notice on the building here itself – the real power behind O’s buddies. And “he’s” being invited back to his scene of his crime along with “his” minion:

     http://www.poynterextra.org/extra/pdf/TheNewsJournalW.pdf
115. On November 15th, 2009 at 7:49 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE Observer:

     Easy, way too easy some people forget…

     Regards -
116. On November 15th, 2009 at 9:43 pm , qwertyman said...

     “Obama Refuses To Defend Bombing Of Hiroshima, Nagasaki”

     http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/11/13/obama_refuses_to_defend_bombing_of_hiroshima_nagasaki.ht

     Obama’s right – Pearl Harbor and Midway are other proof of the deep rottennness of this country -

     That’s good diplomacy. It would be extremely rude to say to your hosts that your country was right to drop atomic bombs on them while you were at war. It was one question out of several the journalist asked, and Obama answered the question in the spirit in which it was asked, and discussed the Japan-US alliance.

     Obama certainly didn’t say that the US was wrong to drop the atomic bombs on Japan to end WWII. You once again twist your words to reflect the reality you have created for yourself.
117. On November 15th, 2009 at 9:54 pm , Phil said...

     GeorgetownJD,

     Phil said:

     “What’s more, since a civilian Court would be given jurisdiction, that means that KSM shall have all of the Constitutional rights at trial that any other American citizen has.”

     Phil, remind me why this is a bad thing?

     While I think Observer has made what I would consider to be an agreeable response, I suppose it doesn’t mean a whole lot except for a vehement debate back and forth.

     After all, the trial is going to be in NYC, no matter what anyone thinks about it.

     Of course, there is always the concept that all illegal immigrants could instantaneously become legal American citizens by virtue of being on American soil if we’re going to use the same standard some are trying to use — terrorists on American soil = American citizens. If this were really true, then what would all the hubbub over illegal immigration be about?

     -Phil
118. On November 15th, 2009 at 10:07 pm , James said...

     “Never Forget”. an organization of the families of the victims of the events of 9/11 is asking the public to sign a letter to Mr. Obama requesting that these,”War Crimanals”, not be tried in a Civil Court. Scroll to the bottom of the page to view a copy of the letter. The you-tube interview on Fox explains their reasons why they do not want this trial to be held in a Civil Court. One thing you may want to know is upon signing, you will be registared to a New York Fire Department E-mail newsletter. Most likely you can opt out of the newsletter upon reciept. Upon signing you may comment your opinion of this display of disrespect to the families whose loved ones perished due to this Act of War. http://www.thebravest.com/neverforget
119. On November 15th, 2009 at 10:13 pm , qwertyman said...

     Of course, there is always the concept that all illegal immigrants could instantaneously become legal American citizens by virtue of being on American soil if we’re going to use the same standard some are trying to use — terrorists on American soil = American citizens

     Nobody is trying to use that standard.

     Saying that a terrorist in court will have the procedural rights of an American citizen in court is a far cry from saying that that terrorist is an American citizen.
120. On November 15th, 2009 at 11:13 pm , kj said...

     siseduermapierda says:
     November 15, 2009 at 4:12 pm

     kj says:
     November 15, 2009 at 4:01 pm
     *Constitution be damned!*

     Not at all. Obama is exactly following the Constitution.

     US Constitution Article III, Section 2
     “The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment shall be tried by a jury; and such trial shall be held in the state in which the crime shall have been committed.”

     Maybe the US should have had a civilian trial for the individuals who bombed Pearl Harbor. Perhaps the Japanese should have tried Harry Truman in Japan for giving the order to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima!

     Tell me where in the Constitution it says that non-citizens have to be brought into the US to stand trial in a civilian court for a military-like attack? This is not like someone mugging people in New York, or a psychopathic killer who preys on older single women one at a time. It was more like a military attack that destroyed two major buildings using fuel laden planes as bombs in NY, damaged and set fire to the Pentagon with another fuel laden plane, resulted in a plane crash into a Pennsylvania field and killed more than 3000 people in a few hours, some of whom waited for a death by fire with no possibility of escape (at least beheading is a quick death).

     The terrorism was not confined to New York. Why not have a military trial in DC or Pennsylvania?

     If individuals, who might be US citizens, can be charged secretly and tried secretly without seeing all the evidence against them via the Patriot Act, why is this trial of non-citizens going to conducted openly in a civilian court and evidence that may not be appropriate to broadcast to the world forced out into the open?

     I don’t agree with the Patriot Act which never should have been passed, and I don’t agree with some of the treatment of non-violent aliens by the immigration department. For the acts of September 11th which would be rightly considered an act of war, I certainly don’t agree with the tactic of trial for these non-citizens in a civilian court. It will probably backfire on the administration along the lines of that other civilian trial of the terrorists that made the first attempt on the WTC, and I just hope that the country is not damaged too severely in the process.
121. On November 15th, 2009 at 11:14 pm , kj said...

     misanthropicus,

     Are you an admin now?
122. On November 16th, 2009 at 12:19 am , SanDiegoSam said...

     misanthropicus:

     you have a good day for proving you keen semantics:

     What language was that?

     
123. On November 16th, 2009 at 2:10 am , misanthropicus said...

     RE kj:

     [...] Are you an admin now? [...]

     No – simply “je sème tout le vents” -
     Now go figure this –
     Best regards -
124. On November 16th, 2009 at 2:28 am , misanthropicus said...

     RE SanDiegoSam:

     [...] you have a good day for proving you keen semantics: What language was that? [...]

     Obamatonese – learned from my Austrian language professor at Princeton, where I also managed to amplify my level of comfort in a considerable measure -

     If you still have doubts about my language skills, check with Jack Cashill and Anderssen about this – they’ll vouch for me -
     As character wittnesses, you can check with Bill Ayres, Mumia Jabal, Larry Sinclair and Tony Rezko -

     Best regards -
125. On November 16th, 2009 at 3:32 am , tminu said...

     Misanth:
     Speaking of Austria (OT)…

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OYVws9uJbk&feature=player_embedded
     http://drkatesview.wordpress.com/?s=ukraine
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOm0eVlZinU&feature=player_embedded

     Thank you Baxter, Sebelius, Obama
     H1N1 is apparently a ruse, the vaccine no use against WYP
     Weaponized yersinia pestis is the 12 hour killer started in Ukraine spreading through Austria
     read it–over 1 million infected 160,000 deaths
     US media is silent

     we need more information on this real killer
126. On November 16th, 2009 at 3:46 am , tminu said...

     Is WYP the reason for the 50,000 tupperware coffins stacked up in Georgia that hold 4 bodies per?

     Who Killed Malcom Casadaban?
     here’s no sign of any spread after the rare, possibly plague-related death of a University of Chicago scientist, public health officials said Monday as federal authorities flew in to help investigate.
     As a precaution, antibiotics have been offered to about 100 co-workers, friends and family of genetics researcher Malcolm Casadaban, who died earlier this month after lab exposure to a weakened form of the bacterium that causes plague.

     Genetics researcher Malcolm Casadaban
     AP

     Malcolm Casadaban

     The strain is federally approved for lab studies. Dr. Kenneth Alexander, a UC infectious disease specialist, likened it to a “crocodile with no teeth” and called Casadaban’s death a mystery.
     Casadaban’s lab on the South Side campus has been sealed off while authorities investigate.
     Officials have said it’s unlikely anyone else would be infected, and a Chicago Department of Public Health spokesman said Monday the window for that happening was nearly over.
     The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention sent three scientists to Chicago on Monday to help with the investigation.
     “It is very rare for a scientist’s death to be linked to a pathogen he or she was studying,” said CDC spokesman Dave Daigle. He didn’t have information on any cases.
     Alexander said the last one he recalled was Howard Taylor Ricketts, a former University of Chicago scientist who did pioneering research on two other bacterial diseases — Rocky Mountain spotted fever and typhus. Ricketts died of typhus in 1910 while researching the organism.
     Casadaban, who studied the genetics of dangerous bacteria, was interested in what made such organisms so aggressive.
     He entered the University of Chicago’s emergency room on Sept. 13, complaining of shortness of breath, and died later that day. Blood tests turned up signs of the Yersinia (plague) bacteria he worked with but no other obvious signs of death, university officials said.
     Additional tests are being done this week, Alexander said.
     “It is a little bit of a mystery as to why him,” he said.
     Casadaban, 60, was otherwise healthy and vigorous, Alexander said, but he may have had an undetected underlying condition that made him susceptible to the weakened germ. The most likely culprit would be an iron metabolism disorder, and tests are being done to determine that, he said.
     About 10 to 15 people each year develop plague nationwide, in mostly rural areas, according to the CDC; one in seven U.S. cases is fatal. Antibiotics can effectively treat plague but without prompt treatment, it can cause severe illness and death.
     Plague can infect wild rodents including rats; affected U.S. areas are mostly in western states. Humans can get the disease by handling infected animals, from fleas that bite infected animals or from other people.
     According to the Chicago Department of Public Health, there has been no human-to-human transmission of plague in the United States since 1924.
     Symptoms can include swollen, painful lymph nodes, fever, chills, a cough and difficulty breathing.
127. On November 16th, 2009 at 8:45 am , Sharon 2 said...

     For Georgetown:

     Legitimate questions, I think. There is more here:

     http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704431804574537370665832850.html

     Credentials for Sue:

     Mr. Yoo is a law professor at the University of California, Berkeley. He was an official in the Justice Department from 2001-03 and is a visiting scholar at the American Enterprise Institute.

     *****

     Even more harmful to our national security will be the effect a civilian trial of KSM will have on the future conduct of intelligence officers and military personnel. Will they have to read al Qaeda terrorists their Miranda rights? Will they have to secure the “crime scene” under battlefield conditions? Will they have to take statements from nearby “witnesses”? Will they have to gather evidence and secure its chain of custody for transport all the way back to New York? All of this while intelligence officers and soldiers operate in a war zone, trying to stay alive, and working to complete their mission and get out without casualties.

     …

     For a preview of the KSM trial, look at what happened in the case of Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th hijacker who was arrested in the U.S. just before 9/11. His trial never made it to a jury. Moussaoui’s lawyers tied the court up in knots.

     All they had to do was demand that the government hand over all its intelligence on him. The case became a four-year circus, giving Moussaoui a platform to air his anti-American tirades. The only reason the trial ended was because, at the last minute, Moussaoui decided to plead guilty. That plea relieved the government of the choice between allowing a fishing expedition into its intelligence files or dismissing the charges.
128. On November 16th, 2009 at 8:51 am , siseduermapierda said...

     kj says:
     November 15, 2009 at 11:13 pm
     *Tell me where in the Constitution it says that non-citizens have to be brought into the US to stand trial in a civilian court for a military-like attack? *

     US Constitution Article III, Section 2
     “The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment shall be tried by a jury; and such trial shall be held in the state in which the crime shall have been committed.”

     There was nothing “military” about the attacks of 9/11. It was a hijacking, kidnapping and mass murder with commercial airplanes. Crimes. And the Constitution says crimes shall be tried by jury in the place they were committed. Obama is following the Constitution.
129. On November 16th, 2009 at 9:03 am , siseduermapierda said...

     Sharon 2 says:
     November 16, 2009 at 8:45 am
     *John Yoo*

     You left out, or you don’t know, John Yoo wrote the legal opinions that were used to allow harsh interrogation techniques by the military and the CIA. You may recognize his opinions by their more common name: the torture memos. Whenever John Yoo writes for the WSJ he is doing so to cover his a$$. He is still at risk of being arrested and tried for war crimes, and has been advised to not travel outside the United States because he could be arrested under international law for crimes against humanity. In December 2003, Yoo’s memo on permissible interrogation techniques was repudiated by the Office of Legal Counsel, then under the direction of Jack Goldsmith, as legally unsound. Take John Yoo with a big grain of sea salt. Berkeley would be happy to be rid of him, but he hasn’t been charged with a crime and they don’t fire professors for their political beliefs.
130. On November 16th, 2009 at 9:07 am , Sharon 2 said...

     I wanted to ask someone a little more objective about the legal ramifications. Your tirade dealt with none. I will wait for a more measured response that deals with the legal questions. The credentials were for Sue, who thinks to express an opinion, you must be a known lawyer.

     “international law for crimes against humanity.”

     You mean like in China? SHhh, can’t talk about that.
131. On November 16th, 2009 at 9:14 am , siseduermapierda said...

     Sharon 2 says:
     November 16, 2009 at 9:07 am
     *Your tirade*

     You had no idea who John Yoo was did you?
132. On November 16th, 2009 at 9:38 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     You guys know the film “2012″ is blaring the message of the end of the world all over the said “world” ?

     I’ve made myself heard enough on this website enough I think.

     Now face that heaven can also talk through Hollywood.

     The message is clear to understand.

     Obama 666 777 9

     Those are the Marks of the Beast.

     A meteorite announced him, the Antichrist, with the 21st century’s longest total solar eclipse.

     Address any one interested to my U Tube pages Phil, thanks.

     Obama’s also the Jewish person announced as his brother and cousin are both Jewish or simili-Jewish and are the Antisemite, predicted by the Bible, as is written on my page.
133. On November 16th, 2009 at 9:39 am , siseduermapierda said...

     I am curious whether Rupert Murdoch is going to use his WSJ to trot out a whole host of “who’s who in neoconism” over the next weeks and months to write opeds on these trials. We’ve heard from Giuliani and Yoo. Cheney is too obvious. Bill Kristol perhaps. My guess is we’ll hear from David Addington, maybe “AGAG” ( atty general Alberto Gonzalez) perhaps Douglas Feith. The point is, why didn’t the WSJ tell its readers that John Yoo has a personal stake in the outcome of these trials? And no one even mentions how dozens of the 215 remaining G’mo detainees have been quietly pleading their cases in federal courts for months.
     http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091116/ap_on_go_ot/us_guantanamo_judges;_ylt=AnE3NzO3ovjaQX5TR3.zv76s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTMyYTh2dm1nBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkxMTE2L3VzX2d1YW50YW5hbW9fanVkZ2VzBGNwb3MDMgRwb3MDNgRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDZG96ZW5zb2ZnaXRt

     The money quote: The evidentiary record “is surprisingly bare,”
134. On November 16th, 2009 at 10:27 am , Sharon 2 said...

     I remembered him being controversial, but didn’t remmember his role in the Bush adm, until you brought it up. It doesn’t change any of the questions raised about the battle field. Are you saying that the Constitution applies, but the defendant should only be given some of what normal defendants usually get?

     I may not be around to answer all of your further questions. Busy day…
135. On November 16th, 2009 at 10:39 am , kj said...

     siseduermapierda says:
     November 16, 2009 at 8:51 am

     kj says:
     November 15, 2009 at 11:13 pm
     *Tell me where in the Constitution it says that non-citizens have to be brought into the US to stand trial in a civilian court for a military-like attack? *

     US Constitution Article III, Section 2
     “The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment shall be tried by a jury; and such trial shall be held in the state in which the crime shall have been committed.”

     There was nothing “military” about the attacks of 9/11. It was a hijacking, kidnapping and mass murder with commercial airplanes. Crimes. And the Constitution says crimes shall be tried by jury in the place they were committed. Obama is following the Constitution.

     Maybe each “offense” alone could be considered non-military. But the focus of the attacks was obvious: a foreign entity intent on crippling our economy, crippling our military, probable destruction of the White House, and definite “shock and awe” on the US population. Doesn’t that sound like an act of “war”? Surely the attackers don’t have to bring their own weapons and wear uniforms to qualify as a military-like group: the hijackers had had combat training and completed a long and careful preparation program to assure the success of the attacks.

     Don’t you have to consider intent in any crime to classify it?
     Premeditated murder is handled differently from manslaughter although the result of each crime is the same: the death of a person.
136. On November 16th, 2009 at 11:05 am , qwertyman said...

     I wanted to ask someone a little more objective about the legal ramifications.

     The legal ramifications of Yoo’s torture memos? They provided a smokescreen for torture. They said that certain interrogations methods could be legal that even the Israeli Supreme Court were unlawful for use against HAMAS terrorists.

     And beyond that, Yoo wrote a memo discussing executive power and didn’t even cite Youngstown which is one of the leading cases on the subject. Yoo’s memo declared that the UN Convention Against Torture, which the US has signed and ratified, doesn’t apply in the war on terror, despite an explicit bar on that exception in the Convention itself.

     Again, John Yoo is not the sort of person that you should be relying on for an honest opinion here.

     Anyway, to be on topic here, I think this civilian court is a good move. Military tribunals are tainted by the actions of the Bush administration, and this could be a sign to the world that the U.S. can handle this.

     And while I’m generally against the death penalty, I have absolutely no problem with making an exception for a piece of shit like KSM.
137. On November 16th, 2009 at 11:12 am , Black Lion said...

     siseduermapierda says:
     November 16, 2009 at 9:39 am

     I am curious whether Rupert Murdoch is going to use his WSJ to trot out a whole host of “who’s who in neoconism” over the next weeks and months to write opeds on these trials. We’ve heard from Giuliani and Yoo
     ____________________________________________________________________
     Sise, of course our friend Rudy is just following the Neo-Con Rupert Murdoch FOX company line. Which is be against whatever the President and the Democratic party is for. But sometimes it causes people to directly contradict themselves….For instance it is interesting that a few years ago Rudy had a different view regarding trying terrorists in the US judical system….

     “When the 20th 9/11 bomber [Zacarias Moussaoui] was tried in Virginia, in a civilian court, and convicted, Mayor Giuliani testified in that case and he heralded the outcome,” Axelrod said on CNN.”

     “After Moussaoui was convicted in 2006, but spared the death penalty by a federal jury, Giuliani said he was “in awe of our system.” “It does demonstrate that we can give people a fair trial, that we are exactly what we say we are. We are a nation of law. . . .I think [Moussaoui's] going to be a symbol of American justice.”

     Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/11/16/2009-11-16_team_bam_rips_2face_rudy.html#ixzz0X2FqWqKZ
138. On November 16th, 2009 at 11:26 am , Black Lion said...

     siseduermapierda says:
     November 16, 2009 at 9:39 am

     I am curious whether Rupert Murdoch is going to use his WSJ to trot out a whole host of “who’s who in neoconism” over the next weeks and months to write opeds on these trials. We’ve heard from Giuliani and Yoo….
     ____________________________________________________________________
     What is even more interesting is that you didn’t hear a peep from any of these individuals before when other so called terrorists went on trial. You have idiots like Scarborough today on MSNBC saying that trying these suspects in the federal justice system is “unprecedented”….I think they are all reading from the same playbook and selectively forgetting that the Clinton and Bush administrations tried and imprisoned foreign terror suspects in our federal system of justice….

     “Bush administration used federal justice system to bring several foreign terrorism suspects to justice. During the George W. Bush administration, several foreign terrorists were brought to justice through the federal justice system, including 9-11 conspirator Zacarious Moussaoui, “Shoe bomber” Richard Reid and East African embassy bombing perpetrators Wahid el-Hage, Mohammed Sadiq Odeh, Mohammed Rashed al-Owhali, and Khalfan Khamis Mohammed.”

     “Clinton administration also used federal justice system to bring foreign terror suspects to justice. During the Clinton administration, 1993 World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Ahmed Yousef and “urban terrorism” plotters Sheik Oma Abdel Rahman and others were brought to justice through the federal justice system.”

     “There are already 216 international terrorists in U.S. prisons. A May 29 Slate.com article reported that according to data from the U.S. Bureau of Prisons, “federal facilities on American soil currently house 216 international terrorists and 139 domestic terrorists. Some of these miscreants have been locked up here since the early 1990s. None of them has escaped. At the most secure prisons, nobody has ever escaped.”

     In other words no issue or outcry when other terrorists that wanted to kill or had killed Americans were put on trial. Putting them in Gitmo and preventing them from lawyers was OK….But to finally try them for their heinous crimes all of a sudden we are giving in and doing something that we have never done before? The hypocrisy regarding this issue is astounding….
139. On November 16th, 2009 at 11:35 am , jvn said...

     I think that the hysteria from some on the right over this issue is because they still don’t want to admit that anything the Bush administration might have done could be wrong.

     If one part of that unravels, the whole thing might just unravel, all the way back to the invasion of Iraq.

     So they have to ratchet up the hyperbole about the decision to actually bring these guys to trial because they want people to forget how they blindly followed Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld into the abyss, into violating international treaty, into torture, into holding people in prison without charges, or even evidence in some cases, for years and years.

     The Bush era was a dark, dark time in American history. It’s defenders feel guilt that manifests itself in self righteousness…
140. On November 16th, 2009 at 12:06 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Apocalypse with 2012, the movie, is spreading message of the end of times worldwide but it’s today not 2012.
     Spread this:
     There are 4 topics about the Antichrist Obama.
     1. Obama-Antichrist’s Marks of the Beast drawn on election day 666 777 9

     2. Obama SODOMY AND INCEST ABOMINATION

     3. Obama is Jewish; by Jewish brother and by Antisemite so-called Jewish cousin.

     4. Meteorite announcing the Antichrist.

     http://www.youtube.com/user/KalachakraandOBeast
141. On November 16th, 2009 at 12:24 pm , James said...

     Thrity (30) Gitmo detainies have already been released due to the Courts finding the militaries cases wanting, according to the statement. The Federal Courts trials are closed to the public. Their is apparently no information forth-coming as to who these persons were being released, or as to, the proceedings and the Courts determination of the evidence provided. So much for transparency !!!!. http://countusout.wordpress.com/2009/11/15/dozens-of-gitmo-detainees-finally-get-day-in-court-30-detainees-released
142. On November 16th, 2009 at 12:54 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Is anybody else starting to get the feeling that Gerhardt is an Obot plant designed to make Birthers look even more foamingly goofy than they really are?
143. On November 16th, 2009 at 1:03 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Misanthropicus:

     Obamatonese

     Funny then that we don’t find the Obots using it.

     If you still have doubts about my language skills, check with Jack Cashill and Anderssen about this

     Hmmm… why check with anybody at all? Your hilarious paper trail gives us all the first hand information we could possibly need with which to judge either your language skills or the the quality of your thinking.
144. On November 16th, 2009 at 1:24 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     Sharon 2 says:
     November 16, 2009 at 10:27 am
     *Are you saying that the Constitution applies, but the defendant should only be given some of what normal defendants usually get?
     *

     I’m saying for the 5 who are going to be tried for plotting and carrying out the airplane attacks on 9/11, they should be treated like every other criminal suspect: given their due process and a fair trial. They’re mass murderers. Our federal prosecutors have a 100% conviction rate for terrorists. We prosecuted Sheik Rahmed, Zacarias Moussaui (the 20th hijacker), Richard Reid the shoe bomber and Jose Padilla, the so-called dirty bomber in federal court and convicted all of them. I think that by trying these suspects in criminal court, it sends the world and the terrorists a strong message that we believe in our values and the strength of our Constitution and are willing to live up to it. And, of course, that we are not afraid of criminals who killed thousands of innocent people.

     As far as the “battlefield”, I really don’t know where all of the 750 that were held at G’mo were caught, if you take a look at the AP article I linked to earlier, many dozens have been through the US courts already and are scheduled for release. It is my understanding that only the 5 being brought to NYC were directly linked to the 9/11 attacks.
145. On November 16th, 2009 at 1:54 pm , Sharon 2 said...

     The legal ramifications of Yoo’s torture memos? (Q)

     -No. I asked about the following questions raised by the Yoo

     Will they have to read al Qaeda terrorists their Miranda rights? Will they have to secure the “crime scene” under battlefield conditions? Will they have to take statements from nearby “witnesses”? Will they have to gather evidence and secure its chain of custody for transport all the way back to New York? All of this while intelligence officers and soldiers operate in a war zone, trying to stay alive, and working to complete their mission and get out without casualties.

     I don’t care who asked the questions. They are important.

     given their due process and a fair trial. (Sis)

     -Which involves the questions raised above.
146. On November 16th, 2009 at 2:04 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     The hilarious part of this article is that this guy is dead serious and has no second degree AT ALL. He seems to still hang onto his idea of knowing what the way is which is RIGHT and that he’s the guide to tell us all what we should be thinking. WAKE UP MAN ! HEAVY WAKE-UP CALL !
     (see he mentions “Obama the Antichrist”…Yeah ! well Obama IS THE ANTICRIST)

     http://nymag.com/movies/reviews/62051/
     The Feel-Bad Movie of the Year

     “You thought you were depressed—and then you saw The Road.
     Doomsday sagas have never been far from our collective American imagination, but they’ve rarely been closer. The end-of-the-world cult of 2012 (Mayan calendar, solar neutrinos, bad vibes from the planet “Nibiru,” etc.) will only fatten its membership in the wake of the idiotic movie of the same name. Throw in (likely) environmental catastrophe, worldwide economic collapse, peak oil, Al Qaeda with Pakistani nukes, , a zombie-cannibal plague, and apocalypse is in the air, la-la. Now comes the starkest doomsday movie yet, The Road, from a novel by Cormac McCarthy, our priest of high-toned despair. McCarthy will never get over the end of the Age of Good Men (which never existed, but don’t tell him that). He has staked his career on the idea that we’re entering a time of humanity in extremis, one in which chaos is ascendant and cannibalism, literal and metaphorical, is the rule, not the exception. The road of The Road is paved with literal cannibals. But it’s also a metaphor for the blind imperative of a father, “The Man” (Viggo Mortensen), to keep his son, “The Boy” (Kodi Smit-McPhee), both eating and uneaten…”

     No matter what dinky world he lives in the Apocalypse message is ruling the world at the box-office. Obama is toast now.
147. On November 16th, 2009 at 2:10 pm , Sharon 2 said...

     by the Yoo article

     - I don’t have the time right now to respond as I should. I’ll have to come back when I can concentrate better.
148. On November 16th, 2009 at 2:11 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     http://spectator.org/archives/2009/11/16/obama-goes-to-the-mattresses

     Obama Goes to the Mattresses

     >In the capacity as Obama’s personal attorney, Bauer has worked on issues related to Obama’s ties to former Obama fundraiser and friend and now convicted felon, Tony Rezko, Obama’s convoluted birth certificate and citizenship law suit, which was dismissed by the courts as frivolous, Obama’s ties to former Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich. He also has knowledge of Obama’s work as a community organizer and his other efforts going back to the Obama’s days in Chicago and, further back, New York.>
     http://washingtonindependent.com/67846/a-tea-party-candidate-promises-fiorina-a-fight

     …Chuck DeVore….he talks bluntly about fascism and even about Barack Obama’s birth records…

     >It was a punchy debut for a candidate who, if national Republicans had their way, would not be worrying about a primary. Getting Fiorina, the multi-millionaire former CEO of Hewlett-Packard, to join the race, was a coup for the National Republican Senatorial Committee. And in other public appearances, Fiorina has brushed DeVore aside. Her opponent, she says, is Boxer. The man who got into this race in November 2008 should be an afterthought. As DeVore ties Fiorina in the polls and turns conservative activists against her–as he talks bluntly about fascism and even about Barack Obama’s birth records–he’s forced Republicans to pay attention.>
149. On November 16th, 2009 at 2:29 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     excerpt below:”…The only time Congressman Sherman raised his voice and got a bit heated is when he was asked why Congress allows Barack Obama to be President when he will not provide his birth certificate and was born in another country. This ridiculous question was met with a surprising number of cheers. It amazes me how many birthers are still out there. Without going into detail, Congressman Sherman put these people in their place with very strong words. Without actually saying so, he called them idiots. His response was met with louder cheers….”

     http://blog.buzzflash.com/mailbag/964

     Subject: Town Hall Meeting

     >Yesterday, Sunday, I attended a town hall meeting with Brad Sherman, my congressman here in the San Fernando Vally of Los Angeles. I’m terrible at estimating how many people were there but the high school auditorium was full and people were standing in the aisles, in the back and on the stage. Congressman Sherman said he has had over 100 town hall meetings and this was by far the best attended.

     The meeting was very well run and Congressman Sherman kept control for the most part. There were the usual protesters with their signs. Abortion is murder. Cut taxes. No health reform. Even though these people booed, yelled, and interrupted a number of times, the congressman worked through it, kept his cool and the audience under control. The only time Congressman Sherman raised his voice and got a bit heated is when he was asked why Congress allows Barack Obama to be President when he will not provide his birth certificate and was born in another country. This ridiculous question was met with a surprising number of cheers. It amazes me how many birthers are still out there. Without going into detail, Congressman Sherman put these people in their place with very strong words. Without actually saying so, he called them idiots. His response was met with louder cheers.

     Congressman Brad Sherman is one of the good guys. He’s not the most visible or outspoken, but he does have logic, common sense and conviction. Thank you Brad Sherman for your valuable representation.

     Bob Lambert
     Northridge, CA>

     Yeah, Congressman Sherman got heated up because in Congress he knows the question is just around the corner and a group of Congressmen are *INDEED* preparing a letter asking Obama for his birth certificate. The question was met by A SURPRISING NUMBER OF CHEERS. PACK YOUR BAGS OBAMA AND PACK LIGHT YOU’LL NOT BE IN JAIL FOR LONG. YOU’RE HEADED FOR A MUCH LIGHTER-WEIGHT TRIP TO HEAVEN I HOPE FOR YOU

     http://www.nwfdailynews.com/opinion/people-22676-muslim-work.html
     Terrorist in chief

     …Oh! Let’s not forget — he has spent a ton of money keeping his birth certificate hidden.

     …The way I see it, he is doing to our country the same thing the terrorists did on 9/11 and nobody even sees it….

     >

     On Sept. 11, 2001, Muslim terrorists hit our nation. The plan was to do as much damage as possible, to cripple us financially and to take out the infidel. Take a moment and think about how everything is coming together.

     The people put a Muslim/American into office. He surrounds himself with far-left radicals. He puts two Muslims to work for homeland security. He tells people not to jump to conclusions after the Fort Hood killings of our soldiers. He is taking this country down a path of financial destruction (remember why 9/11 happened). He will not say the word “terrorist” because it might offend certain groups. Our troops are in harm’s way and he thinks social events are more important.

     Take a look back at the promises he made before getting elected. All but one has come true. Change! I’m sure everyone knows that word. He has had ample time to turn this country around. It’s getting worse. It’s like he’s on a free ride with taxpayers’ money. I could go on an on. Oh! Let’s not forget — he has spent a ton of money keeping his birth certificate hidden.

     The way I see it, he is doing to our country the same thing the terrorists did on 9/11 and nobody even sees it.

     Better start speaking out, people, before the point of no return.

     — JAMES McDONALD

     Santa Rosa Beach>

     PEIOPLE ARE GETTING MAD AND TALKING OUT

     THE APOCALYPSE IS RAGING IN THE BOX OFFICE

     NOW ! RUN !
150. On November 16th, 2009 at 2:37 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Geir GO LYNN GO !

     ARE YOU ANGRY YET?

     http://www.newswithviews.com/Stuter/stuter166.htm

     By Lynn Stuter
     November 10, 2009
     NewsWithViews.com

     Tomorrow is Veterans Day, commemorating our men and women who fought (and died) to keep this country free under the Constitution and Bill of Rights established by our Founding Fathers.

     On November 4, 2008, Barack Hussein Obama was elected to the office of president of the United States. The evidence grows that Obama is not an American citizen, was not eligible to the office he holds, should never have been allowed on the ballot in any of the 50 states.

     1. Not one of the Senators of Representatives in Congress has actually seen Obama’s birth certificate. They have seen pictures of a document posted on the internet, but they have not seen the actual birth certificate.

     2. Hawaii claims to hold a birth certificate for Obama but that does not mean Obama was born in Hawaii. At the time Obama contends he was born (1961), Hawaii (Act 96, Session Laws of 1911, Special Session of 1909 and the Organic Act) allowed for the birth registration, in Hawaii, of foreign-born children. Until the actual birth certificate is produced and examined; where Obama was actually born is unknown and unproven.

     3. No Hawaiian hospital is willing to own up to Obama being born there. Meanwhile, Obama and his half-sister have claimed he was born at two different hospitals. When Obama finally decided he was born at one particular hospital, internet sites set about to “correct” their stories to reflect his unproven claims, including the left-wing website, Snopes.com.

     4. On page 26 of his book, Dreams from my Father (2004, paperback edition), Obama states he found his birth certificate in with other documents in his grandparents home. If Obama was actually born in Hawaii, such undermines the need for Hawaii to produce a laser printed document only produced after 2001—the Certification of Live Birth that has appeared in pictures on the internet, that Hawaii refuses to authenticate, and that forensic experts have dubbed a forgery.

     5. Obama has claimed dual citizenship at birth, American by his mother, Kenyan by his father (actually, this would be British as Kenya was a British colony at that time). Historically, “natural-born” requires two American parents. This makes Obama ineligible under Article II, Section 1, Clause 5 of the United States Constitution, irrespective of the birth certificate issue. Whether a dual citizen at birth, indications are that Obama because an Indonesian citizen and remains so today.

     6. African newspapers have consistently claimed that Obama is “Kenyan-born”. One such article that recently surfaced is dated 2004. This means he did not have dual citizenship at birth was a British subject at birth as his mother was not of the age required to confer her citizenship to Obama.

     7. Obama’s paternal step-grandmother, Sarah, also claims he was born in Kenya and she was present at his birth.

     8. Obama was listed, in the Soetoro/Dunham divorce papers, as dependent on Lolo Soetoro for the purposes of education. As Obama was over the age of 18 at the time, he could only be considered the legal child of Lolo Soetoro if he was legally adopted by Soetoro. Evidence points to him being adopted by Lolo Soetoro, to becoming (ca 1966) an Indonesian citizen. No evidence exists that he was ever an American or that he reclaimed American citizenship. The terminology used in the divorce papers may have been to facilitate Obama in receiving foreign student aid to attend college in the United States.

     9. Indications are that Nancy Pelosi and other Democrat National Committee personnel knew Barack Hussein Obama was not eligible to the office of president; that the nomination of a non-American as the Democrat candidate was deliberate.

     Since his usurping of the office of president, Obama has worked tirelessly to dismantle what remains of the once great nation, the United States of America. He has

     1. plunged this nation $1.4 trillion dollars further in debt, more than any president in history;
     2. pushed every piece of Marxist legislation to come forth from the House and Senate;
     3. taken over private companies in violation of the United States Constitution;
     4. used the public coffers to bail out his Wall Street benefactors;
     5. used his public office to promote and assist radical left-wing organizations like the Black Panthers, ACORN, and Moveon.org;
     6. surrounded himself with czars who have a known Marxist agenda;
     7. traveled the world denigrating America and the American people;
     8. bowed in fealty to his Muslim brothers;
     9. partied hearty in the White House at taxpayer expense while Americans lost their jobs;
     10. insulted America’s allies at every opportunity while affiliating himself with the leaders of Marxist regimes.

     More recently, one of Obama’s Muslim brothers shot and killed at least 13 people, wounded at least 31 at Ft Hood in Texas. While former President George Bush and his wife, Laura, met with families, the wounded, and mourners, Obama was in DC, twisting the arms of members of the U.S. House of Representatives to pass his Marxist healthcare reform bill (H.R. 3962). After all, if he can’t kill them with bullets, what better way to kill them than by withholding (rationing) health care?

     In commemorating the men and women who have died for our country, for the cause of freedom, Public Television broadcast a show Sunday night on the vast cemeteries that sprinkle the European landscape where Americans fought and thousands died in World War II. They fought for their country and for those who came after them, their progeny.

     And now we stand at the precipice of the totalitarian state with a man occupying the White House, usurping the Oval Office, who isn’t an American; who has, by his own actions and words, declared himself a Marxist.

     The United States Congress, assembled, has refused to remove this usurper sitting illegitimately as our president.

     The United States Supreme Court, and lower courts, have refused to address the growing body of evidence that Barack Hussein Obama is not our legitimate president; going so far as to make the ludicrous claim that they cannot overturn the vote of millions, in essence saying that popular vote (if it could even be claimed to be uncorrupted) is above the law.

     The mainstream media of the United States has refused to expose this illegitimate president. Indications are that their actions are the result of threats and duress should they expose Obama for the fraud he is.

     If those who are supposed to uphold our laws, according to their oath of office, refuse to do so, then they leave the American people no choice but to take matters into their own hands.

     This past week we have seen three shootings occur in this country—in Florida, in Texas, and in Washington state. Each of these shootings was directed against a company or government entity seen as unjust. This is the direct result of the refusal of those entrusted to do so, to uphold the law; this is a direct result of the corruption that permeates our government and the companies now seen as partnered with it in the fascist state. When the rule of law breaks down, and it has, then anarchy reigns.

     All the men and women who have died for this country, it would seem, from the War of Independence to present day, have died in vain.

     Are you angry yet?

     © 2009 Lynn M. Stuter – All Rights Reserved
151. On November 16th, 2009 at 3:02 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     THE END OF THE WORLD IS HERE – APOCALYPSE – Reveal the Antichrist OBAMA – Don’t take his money his Marks of the Beast (666 777 9 drawn election day)

     http://cdinsight.com/news.php?readmore=3178

     end-of-the-world film by Roland Emmerich…it has exceeded box office expectations in its opening weekend

     http://www.ifmagazine.com/new.asp?article=8923

     THE SKINNY: Mankind’s apocalypse fetish reared its shameless head this weekend, putting Roland Emmerich’s 2012 in the No. 1 spot

     http://www.theolympian.com/nationworld/story/1037984.html

     Doom spelled dollars at the box office as the global-disaster tale “2012” opened at No. 1 domestically with $65 million and pulled in $225 million worldwide.

     The Sony Pictures action saga tells the story of a scramble to save remnants of humanity

     http://www.examiner.com/x-956-Atlanta-Movies-Examiner~y2009m11d15-Precious-expands-with-huge-boxoffice-results-2012-Pirate-Radio-debut-on-weekend-movie-chart

     The weekend’s box office winner, the apocalyptic action thriller 2012, raked in an impressive $65 million in its opening weekend. Starring John Cusack and Amanda Peet, it received slightly below-average reviews, including a 39 tomatometer score that placed it No. 14 for the week. Impressive special effects aside, audiences overall also found it less than earth-shattering, with the pic scoring a 6.7 at IMDB (No. 13 for the week).
152. On November 16th, 2009 at 3:36 pm , Sue said...

     Sharon 2,

     “The credentials were for Sue, who thinks to express an opinion, you must be a known lawyer.”

     Not true. Anyone has the right to “express an opinion”, however, when you hold that person’s opinion as “an expert opinion”, then that person’s credentials should be examined to determine if they are indeed experts.

     Anybody can “express their opinion” but it doesn’t make their opinion correct or factual.
153. On November 16th, 2009 at 3:46 pm , Black Lion said...

     SanDiegoSam says:
     November 16, 2009 at 12:54 pm
     Is anybody else starting to get the feeling that Gerhardt is an Obot plant designed to make Birthers look even more foamingly goofy than they really are?
     ___________________________________________________________________
     SDS, It is begining to look that way…especially when you obeserve that the more he is ignored the more ridiculous crap he decides to write or post. He is like a little kid looking for attention and upset that he is not getting it from anyone here….
154. On November 16th, 2009 at 4:36 pm , Black Lion said...

     A couple good articles regarding this issue…

     “Not everyone seems to be happy that a man believed to be a mass murderer is going on trial, strange to say. Senator Joe Lieberman, on cue, said that the proceedings would give KSM a chance to “mock” his victims. Mock? KSM will be the one on trial; we, free people with a new tower being built at Ground Zero, will be the ones judging. (The tower’s construction delays may, on reflection, be the one mockable aspect of this.) One of the shabbier arguments one hears is that we shouldn’t put KSM on trial a civilian court because he will walk right out of there—some liberal judge will throw out the case, just because he was tortured. Oddly, this is presented as a vindication of places like Guantánamo, rather than as one of their flaws. But it is all less about logic than about scaring people. There was an indictment against KSM for terrorist activities even before September 11, 2001—an indictment, one assumes, that had evidence to back it up. There is no good reason he should not have been put on trial long ago. If his trial reveals details of his detainment that are embarrassing, then that’s just one more reason to go ahead with it—we deserve as much as anyone to know what our government has done.”

     http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/closeread/2009/11/khalid-sheikh-mohammed.html

     “Prosecutors say Lazhar Ben Mohamed Tlil may hold the key to prosecuting Guantanamo Bay prisoners in Italy and may be crucial to U.S. prosecutions, too. But now he’s threatening to clam up. Tlil’s Italian court-appointed lawyer says he has already provided important details to a team of U.S. investigators and identified from photos fellow Tunisian trainees in the Afghan camps. While the cases are confidential, authorities say he also has provided important information to the Italians about several detainees at Guantanamo who might be brought to Italy and tried in a criminal court. Italian prosecutors say the 40-year-old Tunisian is one of only two extremists held in Europe who actually trained in the camps and are therefore able to provide critical court testimony, should the Obama administration put Guantanamo prisoners on trial in civilian courts.”

     http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jiI8ma6NgUx1aT75EwyHV-ZUOVngD9BULLNG1
155. On November 16th, 2009 at 4:59 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     Sharon 2 says:
     November 16, 2009 at 1:54 pm
     *questions raised by the Yoo*

     Who cares what John Yoo wonders about due process for the 5 mass murderers. He’s only interested in saving his own skin and discrediting President Obama like every other neo-con. I’m sure John Yoo really hopes it doesn’t come up in trial that KSM was waterboarded 183 times in March 2003, an average of 6 times a day. Thanks to the memo written by John Yoo saying ” you want to torture information out of people? Sure thing, here’s how you circumvent US and International law.” (Wouldn’t you think after oh, say 2, maybe 3 waterboards when you didn’t get the info you wanted you’d maybe say, gosh, this waterboarding thing isn’t very effective?) John Yoo is a disgrace.
156. On November 16th, 2009 at 5:35 pm , bob strauss said...

     sise, That number of waterboarding KSM 183 times is false. The actual number was 5.
     I heard it during an interview on the Sean Hannity radio show.
     Where do you get your figures?
157. On November 16th, 2009 at 5:38 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Sharon:

     Will they have to read al Qaeda terrorists their Miranda rights?

     Eventually, of course. Why would they not?

     Will they have to secure the “crime scene” under battlefield conditions?

     Of course not. But that’s okay, since “al Qaeda” terrorists are rarely ever encountered “under battlefield conditions.”

     Will they have to take statements from nearby “witnesses”?

     If “nearby ‘witnesses’” are available… why would they not want to do exactly that?

     Will they have to gather evidence and secure its chain of custody for transport all the way back to New York?

     As best as they can, of course. Again… why would they not want to do exactly that?

     All of this while intelligence officers and soldiers operate in a war zone, trying to stay alive, and working to complete their mission and get out without casualties.

     These fine intelligence officers and soldiers are actually pretty good with tactical triage. They will do what they do every day… their jobs. And they will do them while trying to stay alive, and working to complete their mission and get out without casualties.
158. On November 16th, 2009 at 5:46 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Bob Strauss:

     The details of KSM’s waterboarding were found in the May 30, 2005 “Bradbury memo.” It indicated Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was subjected to waterboarding 183 times in just one month during March 2003. Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded at least 83 times in just one month during August, 2002.

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/pdf/OLCmemo_May30_Part2.pdf

     Check the bottom of Page 37.
159. On November 16th, 2009 at 5:58 pm , bob strauss said...

     The story told on Hannity radio said, they waterboarded KSM 5 times, the rest of the times all they had to do was show KSM the “equipment” and he spared himself of the inevitable.
160. On November 16th, 2009 at 6:04 pm , misanthropicus said...

     The Caves – Waziristan (no zip code needed, just ask the first Obamaton around)
     FROM: Hussein Obama
     TO: SanDiegoSam
     RE: the infernal heathen misanthropicus (may Allah take his virgins and give them all to you, my son!) who torments a righteous person like you, SDS –

     [...] why check with anybody at all? Your hilarious paper trail gives us all the first hand information we could possibly need with which to judge either your language skills or the the quality of your thinking. [...]

     So, my worthy SdS, I am glad that your defending the great Obama in your qarrel with that odious demon misanthropicus (that abject birther! may Allah deprive him of virgins, chicken pilaf and hashish for ever, and send him in hell for one million years!) gives me the opportunity to post here in your defense and for everyone’s edification some evidence that Obamatonese, thinking system invented by me thrives, and is and will for ever be used by Obamatons (may Allah abundantly replentish their well-deserved allotment of virgins, chicken pilaf, hashish, dynamite and Eric Holders!) -

     If you need more evidence for illustrating my thinking and writing abilities, don’t hesitate – I’ll rapidly oblige with more -

     Yours truly,

     Hussein Obama, Grand Calif Of Northern America, anticipative Nobel Peace Prize awardee, clueless-in-chief, great bower, deliberator, writer & thinker -

     check: http://www.lawatchdog.com/ObamaGoofesAndGaffes080508.html
161. On November 16th, 2009 at 6:05 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Bob Strauss:

     The “story told on Hannity” is directly contradicted by the Bradbury memo which came directly from the Justice Department Office of Legal Counsel.

     I gave you the link to part two.

     Here’s part one: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/pdf/OLCmemo_May30_Part1.pdf
162. On November 16th, 2009 at 6:09 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Misanthropicus:

     So, my worthy SdS, I am glad that your defending the great Obama in your qarrel with that odious demon misanthropicus (that abject birther!

     I hardly even have to mention Obama let alone defend him. Simply putting as fine a point as possible on the uncompromising ignorance that suffuses your posts pretty much accomplishes all I need.
163. On November 16th, 2009 at 6:30 pm , bob strauss said...

     Sam, that memo is from 2005, I think there may have been some corrections and clarifications during the last 4 years.
164. On November 16th, 2009 at 6:46 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Bob Strauss:

     Don’t be silly. The memo’s age is actually an argument in its favor. Historical sources are always more reliable the closer they are in time to the events they record.

     The memo is absolutely authoritative, has an unbroken provenance, and is provided by someone who is unquestionably in a position to know the facts.

     In contrast, you provide the fuzzy memory of an unattributed anecdote on a radio show you claim to have heard.

     This is a perfect example of the pathological Birther rationality filter. The competing “evidence” is not even close in terms of quality or admissibility, and yet you glom onto the one that satisfies your prejudice, no matter how pathetic it is. This is also why Birther lies never die.

     Sorry, Bob. You’ll have to do better.
165. On November 16th, 2009 at 6:54 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Apocalypse is ruling and getting more intense

     http://www.voanews.com/english/Entertainment/2009-11-16-voa25.cfm

     Cataclysmic Event Threatens World’s End in ’2012′
     By Alan Silverman
     Hollywood
     16 November 2009

     Filmmaker Roland Emmerich is at home in the ‘disaster movie’ genre with hit films like Independence Day, The Day After Tomorrow and Godzilla among his credits. Now, he ratchets his trademark mayhem up to a global scale, destroying landmarks the world over in his new action-adventure film. Here’s a look at 2012.

     “In ancient times, the Mayan people were the first people to discover that this planet had an expiration date. According to their calendar, in the year 2012 a cataclysmic event will unfold caused by an alignment of the planets in our solar system that only happens every 640,000 years. ”

     Those events will unfold on December 21, 2012 …according to scholars and enthusiasts who have pored through the ancient texts. All that is needed to get the movie started is some cause for this worldwide catastrophe.

     Mix a little pseudo-science with an intriguing legend and Roland Emmerich says action is bound to happen.

     “Whenever you have a myth out there, first of all it’s a starting point, which makes people [think] it is real,” Emmerich says. “It was interesting for me when I did some sort of research. I read, like, ten books …or at least flipped through them …and I realized that every book about 2012 says something different. You have a lot of freedom there and it’s just a fact that so many people are fascinated. I think I know where this fascination comes from: it’s because it is such an exact date.”

     “It’s the apocalypse…end of days…the judgment day…the end of the world, my friend. Christians called it ‘The Rapture,’ but the Mayans knew about it, the Hopis, the I Ching, the bible…..kind of.”

     Woody Harrelson plays a radio talk show host whose own extensive research leads him to the inescapable conclusion.

     “He believes that the world is going to come to an end and he has an attitude about how it’s going to happen. Of course, a lot of people think he’s nuts, but he turns out to be not so far off,” Harrelson explains.

     John Cusack stars as a divorced father desperately trying to save his ex-wife and kids as Southern California falls down around them. Cusack thinks, like much science fiction, 2012 taps into a widespread concern – maybe even paranoia – about the future.

     “I think in today’s society this is something that probably gives voice to a lot of collective fears and paranoia …and also, I think, should probably entertain and distract from some of the woes that people are experiencing,” Cusack says. “I think this is escapist entertainment with a little bit of a social conscience that, hopefully, gets people to react towards global warming and some of those things; but today, right now, I think people just want to have a good time at the movies because there are so many troubles going on in the world right now.”

     Chewitel Ejiofor co-stars as a scientist frantically trying to convince government authorities to save as many people as possible. ‘Frantic’ fits this role and the circumstances, according to the English actor.

     “Yes sure. If the world is coming to an end and everything is getting destroyed, it’s hard to take it lightly and do it in a very nuanced style,” Ejiofor says. “You’ve just got to focus on the situation that the character is in. It does require a certain imaginative leap and you’ve just got to go for it and you hope that the audience is carried with you; but the circumstances are extraordinary and incredibly heightened and you kind of have to play to that and get on the ride and have a go at it.”

     2012 also includes plenty of melodrama – scenes of emotional, tearful goodbyes, for instance; but writer-director Emmerich says it’s all part of the package.

     “Some people call in melodramatic,” Emmerich says. “I call it very heartfelt and true. I think when you make movies like this you have to make people laugh, you have to make people cry and you have to make people scared. I try to do that.”

     2012 is co-written by Austrian-born Harald Kloser, who also composed some of the soundtrack music. The international cast includes Danny Glover as the troubled US president with Thandie Newton as his headstrong daughter; and Jimi Mistry is the Indian scientist who first recognizes the phenomenon that is changing the world. But the real stars of the film may be the digital special effects wizards who create scenes of disaster ranging from California sliding into the sea to the eruption of a super-volcano under Yellowstone National Park and the collapse of the Vatican atop thousands of worshipers.
166. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:07 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Want to see a guy freaking out at the movie on the Apocalypse ?

     http://www.seattlepi.com/national/412140_doomsday12.html?source=mypi

     The world is going to end in 2012 — not!

     I’ve had it. I’ve frakking had it. I had hoped the brouhaha over the 2012 apocalypse — you know, the Mayans predicted the world would end on Dec. 21, 2012 — would have died down by now.

     PosterBut it hasn’t. I could blame the Interwebs for being a fount of stupidity and spreading of persistent but decidedly ignorant memes. But that’s not exactly an original thought.

     Instead I’m going to blame the more traditional media. (Hey, you hack, you’re part of the media. Guilty.)

     Let’s start with the History Channel. Sure beats another shopping channel, right? Good World War II videos and the occasional Civil War program. But their Decoding the Past program on the Mayan prophecies was flat out pseudoscience garbage. So were the sequels like 2012, End of Days. Go ahead and change your name to the Nostradamus Network, already.

     Then there’s the Discovery Channel, which had to jump into the ratings feeding frenzy with 2012 Apocalypse, a program not about the Mayans, but rather on the topic of “What does science have to say about this looming apocalypse? What real threats could possibly bring about cataclysmic changes on Earth in 2012?”

     Science says the Discovery Channel should have shown Deadliest Catch re-runs instead.

     Then there’s the movie 2012 (opening Friday!), which promoters have been trying to get me to write about from a scientific angle. I was invited on an all-expenses-paid trip to Jackson Hole, Wyo., to interview the director. (Declined.) I was offered tickets to a free screening this week. (Declined.) I might have written something but for the fact that The Onion has already pretty well covered the matter.

     At least RottenTomatoes loves it.

     Folks, I love my readers. I try to run a take-all-comers approach here, that is, I am accepting of those who hold widely divergent views on most all topics. But if you believe in the 2012 madness, I mean really believe in this nonsense, you’re probably better off spending your Interwebs time elsewhere.

     (If you actually need an explanation for why this is bunk, the Houston Museum of Science’s curator of anthropology, Dirk Van Tuerenhout, has an excellent overview on the musuem’s BeyondBones blog.)

     I write all of this not to say there will never be an apocalypse. The world will eventually be hit by a super-asteroid. Or a terrorist may eventually bioengineer a highly virulent, highly infectious bug that wipes out humanity.

     But there’s no reason to think that will happen in 2012. Why am I so sure? Because Houston was not awarded the 2012 Summer Olympics. That surely would have been a sign of the apocalypse.

     http://blogs.coventrytelegraph.net/thegeekfiles/2009/11/nasa-speaks-out-as-2012-film-s.html

     NASA speaks out as 2012 film sparks fears of end of world

     AS ROLAND EMMERICH’S disaster movie 2012 erupts at the global box office, American scientists have assured people that the world is not coming to an end in that year.

     The film is inspired by a date in the Mayan calendar – equivalent to December 21, 2012 in modern reckoning – that marks the end of a cycle and is often wrongly interpreted as the date of doomsday.

     The marketing for the movie includes a spoof website run by the fictitious Institute for Human Continuity. It asks visitors to enter a ‘survival lottery’ which will decide a limited number to be rescued from global destruction.

     But many people believe the website’s claims are real. As a result, NASA has stepped in to dispel rumours that Earth really is heading for apocalypse.

     The National Aeronautical and Space Agency has answered a series of key questions on its website to allay fears which have been heightened by the new movie.

     NASA scientist David Morrison has had thousands of emails from people anxious about the end of the world and even knows of young people who are contemplating suicide over it.

     He said: “There is no threat to Earth in [the year] 2012, there is no danger. All the talk about a doomsday is a big hoax perpetuated on the internet. So please don’t worry about it.”

     Referring to Emmerich’s new blockbuster, he added: “I don’t have anything against the movie. It’s the way it’s been marketed and the way it exploits people’s fears.

     “I can only hope that most people are able to distinguish Hollywood film plots from reality.”

     Fellow scientist Don Yeomans said: “There apparently is a great deal of interest in celestial bodies, and their locations and trajectories at the end of the calendar year 2012.

     “Now, I for one love a good book or movie as much as the next guy. But the stuff flying around through cyberspace, TV and the movies is not based on science. There is even a fake NASA news release out there.”

     The agency’s webpage assures people that, contrary to myth, a rogue planet called Niburu, supposedly discovered by the Sumerians, is not on a collision course with Earth. Nor is there a Planet X hurtling towards us.

     There is no risk of a massive solar flare set to destroy the planet in 2012 and monitoring systems do not predict any meteorite impact in that year.

     In addition, there are no planetary alignments in the next few decades and even if there were, they would have negligible effect, says the agency.

     The earth’s rotation will never change, and although magnetic poles do reverse every few hundred thousand years, this does not cause any harm and is not predicted to happen in 2012.

     Geir: Nasa going into disaster control; they’re too afraid people start thinking if the Apocalypse happens there’ll be an Antichrist and the answer being Obama freaks these guys out so much they have to disown the Apocalypse will happen. It won’t help, some people will still think so and they’ll reach the conclusion Obama IS THE ANTICHRIST
     Tough eh ! NASA ? Life sucks eh !

     Who was laughing at me this morning ?
167. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:12 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Fox covers this with talk of Armageddon, the Antichrist, etc… they do the whole deal.

     This is getting teeth.

     http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2009/11/13/end-time-prediction-unique-doomsday-scenarios/

     ’2012′ End-of-Time Prediction Unique Among Doomsday Scenarios

     While many religions have end-of-time prophecies, few gave a specific date like the Mayans.Death. Destruction. The end-of-the-world as we know it.

     They’re all predicted for December 21, 2012, according to ancient Mayans and Hollywood’s latest disaster flick.

     The big budget “2012,” starring John Cusack and opening Friday nationwide, is based on the Mayan calendar, whose end date is December 21 of this year.

     But it looks like the Mayans and Tinseltown are alone in their prediction.

     SLIDESHOW: Best movies about the end of the Earth of all time!

     According to Dr. Mark Hitchcock, biblical scholar and author of “2012: The Bible and the End of the World,” their December doomsday scenario has little connection to this or other end times prophecies.

     “While there are these similarities that there is going to be a time of cataclysm, there are big differences in what the Bible says and what the ’2012′ viewpoint sets forth,” he told Fox News. “The Bible doesn’t give us any time periods for when these events are going to take place. In fact Jesus a warned against doing that.”

     Indeed many religions have “end time” prophecies. Christianity’s book of Revelations speaks of Armageddon, the final battle of good and evil, and the second coming of Jesus Christ.

     Shia Muslims predict that The Twelfth Imam, called The Mahdi, will rise up and lead all nations into an era of peace under Islam. (There’s even one book claiming the the Mahdi and Christianity’s Anti-Christ are one and the same.)

     In Judaism, the end of days, called acharit hayamim, will see the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem and the coming of the Jewish Messiah who will be the new King of Israel.

     The difference between these predicted cataclysmic events and the Mayans’ is that the Mayans gave a date. Why is this significant, and hence worth a multimillion dollar blockbuster movie?

     The Mayans were expert mathematicians and astronomers, with very accurate calendars. Their long-count calendars had five cycles totaling about 26,000 years, with the final cycle ending a few weeks from now! But while the Mayans were accurate, Hollywood filmmakers aren’t even pretending to be.

     Columbia Tristar rep Steve Elzer told The Wall Street Journal that the film is “a purely entertaining world of fiction.” John Cusack would also not commit to the world ending in December, but does think the planet is “changing and convulsing.”

     In that respect, Cusack has company.

     William Gladstone, anthropologist and author of the book “The Twelve,” a novel that draws on the Mayan and other prophetic traditions, believes the changes expected in 2012 will be very subtle.

     “I think that people who are at the highest level of awareness may actually have a sensation of a change, of an energetic change,” he said. “I think the vast majority of people won’t necessarily have a conscious feeling of change.”

     “2012” is Hollywood’s latest apocalyptic offering, but it won’t be the last – not even this year. “The Road,” starring Viggo Mortenson, which opens November 25, is the story of a father and son surviving in a post apocalyptic America. “The Book of Eli” starring Denzel Washington opens January 15, and has the same theme.

     Producers of “The Road” are holding pastor screenings of the R-rated film across the country. Larry Ross, who organized the pastor screenings, says the Dimension film is hoping to create interest in the faith community and be a jumping off point for deeper discussions.

     “2012”, however has no such grand purpose. The PG-13 film is aimed towards general audiences.

     Mixed reviews have greeted its opening. One critic called it “…an orgy of Hollywood excess and incoherence,” but also said it is “among the most entertaining movies you’ll see this year.”

     Hopefully its premise and the Mayans are wrong, and the next two years will not be our last!

     Geir: You’ve got that wrong. The Apocalypse will be Obama’s fall and the upheaval of consciousnesses by that. The news will come out of this box-office scare.

     http://correspondents.theatlantic.com/lane_wallace/2009/11/predicting_the_end_of_the_world.php

     Predicting the End of the World

     The movie 2012 opens Friday, predicated on the notion that on December 21, 2012, as the most recent Mayan long-form calendar cycle (5,125.366 years) comes to an end, along with a unique planetary/solar alignment and a high level of solar activity, the world will cataclysmicly end one era and enter another. With earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, and all sorts of devastating destruction in the process.

     The movie is not the only source of prophetic notions of doom, or at least cataclysmic change, that are gaining increasing play and attention as 2012 approaches. There are books, websites, and even several other movies scheduled for release on the subject with all kinds of angles, from secular and New Age to religious and indigenous folk legend.

     Now, even if it were true that the Mayans had predicted some apocalyptic ending of the world at the end of their long calendar cycle (they had several calendars and ways of marking time; that was just one of them), it’s a bit odd that we’d grab onto that one particular prophesy and belief system of theirs. After all, the Mayans also believed in human sacrifice, and we don’t exactly leap on board that train in attempting to maintain civic and theological order.

     But according to Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. (FAMSI), the truth is, the Mayans didn’t have any apocalyptic predictions for 2012. “There is NOTHING in ancient Maya records that predicts the end of the world; no apocalypse, no destruction, no cosmic clashes. Nothing,” she says.

     But, wait. What about Quetzacoatal returning and all that? Big sigh from the folks at FAMSI. In a fascinating paper available from the FAMSI website, Dr. Mark Van Stone, who has studied the Mayan culture for over a decade (and can read and write in Mayan hieroglyphs) provides an illuminating and entertaining cataloging of why all the doomsayers are off the mark and includes some great photo exhibits regarding the astronomical events scheduled for 12/21/12. Here’s a sample, from his “9 Reasons Why The Mayan Prophecies Should Be Read Very Critically”:

     Though Aztec, Mixtec, and Maya sources provide us a number of narratives, different versions disagree. For example: the Aztec predict that this Creation will end on a 4-Movement day in a 2-Reed year, if it ends at all. The next possible Aztec end-date will be in 2027. Maya literature does not explicitly predict any end at all, and their so-called “end date” in 2012 is a 4-Ajaw [4-Flower in Aztec cycle] not 4-Movement. Mixtec Creation stories mention 2-Deer in 13-Rabbit, and other dates.

     So perhaps in on the 2-Deer day in the 13-Rabbit year, under a 4-Flower Moon, we might have cause to worry — except that it seems the Mayans never corrected written mistakes (the original, and literal, “carved in stone” approach). And the Aztec official responsible for a lot of how that culture’s history was written apparently had a bit of a Machiavellian propaganda minister’s streak in him. Which is to say, even what they did say should be taken with a handful of archeological salt.

     December 21, 2012 is still a significant day for the Mayans. It’s the equivalent of our Gregorian Calendar’s December 31, 1999; the turning over of a new millennium and era of timekeeping. So it would be a big celebration. But that’s about it. Of course, there were also a slew of predictions about disaster and doom surrounding our own “end of a cycle” mark at the end of 1999. None of which came true, as you may recall.

     So why are we so drawn to these apocalyptic notions and prophecies of doom, gloom, and destruction (even if it eventually leads to a shining new era for the select few who are chosen or manage to survive)?

     The answer apparently dates back to the very earliest days of human existence. “Apocalypticism,” as it is academically known, arises from a deep evolutionary sense or need for social justice, according to Allen Kerkeslager, an associate professor in Religions of the Ancient World at St. Joseph’s University in Philadelphia.

     “The sense of social justice, fairness in dealing with each other, and a felt need to cooperate with each other was already in place long before our hominid ancestors reached the cognitive ability to reflect on it,” Professor Kerkeslager says.

     As long as humans lived in the relatively egalitarian hunting and gathering societies that dominated up until about 10,000 years ago, that need was sufficiently met and enforced, because the survival of the group depended on cooperation. But when humans moved into more agrarian societies with land ownership, where a more hierarchical structure evolved, disparities increased. So those who had less had to come up with a way to explain the differences and satisfy their need for an eventual leveling of the scales. Apocalypticism, according to Kerkeslager, fulfilled that need and gave people a way of still believing that the gods were good and fair, even in an unfair world.

     “Typically,” he explains, “[apocalypticism] involves claims to prophetic authority among the leaders of the movement, an emphasis on visions and other forms of direct experience with the gods, and prophecies of a future transformation of the world that will bring relief to the afflicted members of the apocalyptic group and destruction on their enemies.”

     Not surprisingly, the phenomenon typically springs up among groups who find themselves in the minority, threatened, or repressed unfairly–at least, in their own view of the world. The Christian Book of Revelation came about under perceived Roman repression of the fledgling faith. The Anabaptists of the 1500s came out of a society stressed by economic disparity between rich and poor. Native American cultures developed apocalyptic narratives in the 1880s and 1890s, when those cultures were in danger of annihilation.

     Visions and prophecies have been found in writings dating as far back as 2,000 B.C., according to Kerkeslager, although not all cultures had an equal need for thunder and lightning delivery of justice. In a polytheistic culture like ancient Greece, the need for apocalyptic beliefs was less, because a multitude of warring gods could explain misfortune or disparity. You might simply be the casualty of a power struggle between Hera and Zeus.

     But as cultures became monotheistic, the disconnect between a supposedly fair and just God, and an unjust world, became harder to explain away. Hence, Kerkeslager says, apocalyptic notions in the Hebrew Book of Daniel, which was written only three years after a Greek King named Antiochus had begun a brutal repression of the Jews in Jerusalem, including turning the Jewish Temple into a shrine for Zeus. The revolt of Jewish revolutionaries, including the restoration of the temple in 165 B.C. (the same year that the Book of Daniel was written) is the basis for the Jewish holiday of Hannukah. But at the end of the Book of Daniel, the author predicts that an apocalyptic end will come to the repressive Greeks 1,290 days after their desecration of the temple. Unfortunately, as with other apocalyptic prophecies, it didn’t happen. So the last line of Daniel changes the date to 1,335 days.

     The fact that that date, too, came and went, didn’t seem to fluster believers, any more than a failure of the earth to end on January 1, 2000 has stopped people from believing that it might still happen in 2012.

     “The stubborn and often surprising ability of apocalyptic groups to ignore or explain away the failures of their prophecies is one of the most well-known features of apocalyptic groups,” Kerkeslager says–a phenomenon also known as “motivated reasoning,” as I discussed in an earlier piece here.

     So with all that knowledge and understanding, can we all breathe easy? Not quite. “The belief in an apocalyptic doomsday is still alive even in the most skeptical societies,” Kerkeslager says, “because it is very much a real possibility … The earth is about 4.5 billion years old, and has sometimes been characterized by global transformations that have indeed had an apocalyptic scope.” Some of those events were natural disasters that caused mass extinctions. But many civilizations, he points out, have brought about their own extinction “by practices that exhausted their natural resources and gradually undermined their ability to sustain their own populations.” Including, ironically enough, the ancient Mayans.

     So perhaps the Mayans did leave us a prophecy or warning worth heeding. Just not the one everyone’s talking about. But in director Roland Emmerich’s defense, I have to admit that it would be a lot harder to make a blockbuster action-adventure-thriller out of recycling your grocery bags and developing renewable energy sources than something that results in an aircraft carrier on a tidal wave wiping out the White House. Which is something spinners of apocalyptic tales figured out long before there were aircraft carriers, movies, or really cool special effects.

     Geir: this is just all over the board, impossible to see the extent of it.
     Massive tsunami.
168. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:15 pm , bob strauss said...

     Sam, I was wondering how long it would take you to attack me personally and with Alinsky style tactics.

     Real nice job Sam, you guys are so predictable.
169. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:21 pm , misanthropicus said...

     The Caves – Waziristan (no zip code needed, just ask the first Obamaton around)
     FROM: Hussein Obama
     TO: SanDiegoSam
     RE: that rotten heathen misanthropicus (may Allah take his virgins and give them all to you, my son!) who relentlessly tries your faith!

     [...] I hardly even have to mention Obama let alone defend him. Simply putting as fine a point as possible on the uncompromising ignorance that suffuses your posts pretty much accomplishes all I need. [...]

     And right you are my son in faith SDS (may Allah and the Prophet give you scores of plump virgins and widows to fecundate and so replentish the righteous Obamaton army!), and great rewards await you for showing so much fortitude when your faith in me is abjectly challenged by the infernal infidel dog misanthropicus (may Allah and the Prophet give him only turkey claws & beaks pilaf for lunch, and hairy nags as mattress fellows while you will regale on soft carpets and pillows amongst heaps of chicken pilaf and countles plump virgins and widows readily available for righteous impregnation!)

     Resist the great misanthropicus Satan, my beloved son SDS, you have loins of flint, arms of copper, chest of iron and a mind, oh, my son, of a bottomless fountain’s dark depths!

     Resist the misanthropicus Satan, and resist his odious challenging my thinking & writing talents! And since Satan’s poisonous attacks continue, and you, like many other Obamatons, are withered and discouraged, here I send you more weapons to defend yourselves from those infernal heathens assaults -

     Here you have, and please freely quote from it as illustrations of my contagious writing and thinking talents, my soulmate Michelle’s Princeton graduation paper (as you may know, for the time being, as instructed by the Prophet, I cannot release any of my overwhelming academic work which would immediately pulverize those poisonous infidels, may Allah make their carpets balder and balder and pillows saggier and saggier!)

     Do it, SDS, quote from my soulmate Michelle’s phenomenal work, and blind the infidels (may Allah abundantly replentish your and your friends Obamatons the well-deserved allotment of virgins, chicken pilaf, hashish, dynamite and Eric Holders!) -

     If you need more evidence for illustrating my thinking and writing abilities, don’t hesitate – I’ll rapidly oblige with more -

     Yours truly,

     Hussein Obama, Grand Calif Of Northern America, anticipative Nobel Peace Prize awardee, clueless-in-chief, great deliberator, writer, thinker, bower, spy -

     from Hussein Obama to SDS:
     http://www.politico.com/pdf/080222_MOPrincetonThesis_1-251.pdf
170. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:24 pm , Pat Smith said...

     Somehow I cannot get all wee wee’d up if KSM was waterboarded 5 times or 183 times.

     However, I am fully aware that the “torture” of this poor misguided Terrorist could result in an acquittal for him.
171. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:25 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     bob strauss says:
     November 16, 2009 at 5:58 pm
     The story told on Hannity radio said,

     Hannity is a known liar. Hannity showed video of the crowd of 30,000 from the 9/12 gathering and claimed it was the Nov 5th Bachman rally. Hannity has no credibility left.
172. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:28 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     Pat Smith says:
     November 16, 2009 at 7:24 pm
     Somehow I cannot get all wee wee’d up if KSM was waterboarded 5 times or 183 times.

     Just what I’d expect. You get all “wee wee’d up” about lies about Obama, but you’re not concerned about what was done in your name. You claim you love the Constitution but you let Bush and Cheney and Yoo and Bybee and Addington “wee wee” all over it.
173. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:29 pm , qwertyman said...

     Sam, I was wondering how long it would take you to attack me personally and with Alinsky style tactics.

     Pointing out that an authoritative report written by somebody in a position to know the facts has more credibility than what you believe you heard on Hannity’s radio show (you neglect to provide the name of the guest, a direct quote or even the date on which this was supposedly said) is not “Alinsky style tactics,” but common sense.

     Even if KSM was waterboarded only once, that would mean that the US committed acts of torture. Quibbling about the distinction between five times versus over 150 times (the latter number of which is backed by an authoritative report, the former backed by your personal recollection of a right wing radio talk show) is actually relatively immaterial. Acts of torture, even of assholes like KSM who deserve to be put to death, should never be tolerated.
174. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:30 pm , misanthropicus said...

     “Washington (CNN) – Two-thirds of Americans disagree with the Obama administration’s decision to try Khalid Sheik Mohammed in a civilian court rather than a military court, according to a new national poll.

     But six in 10 people questioned in a CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey released Monday say that the alleged mastermind of the 9/11 attacks should be tried in the United States, as the administration plans to do, rather than at a U.S. facility in another country.

     The poll indicates that 64 percent believe Mohammed should be tried in military court, with 34 percent suggesting that he face trial in civilian court. Six in 10 people questioned say Mohammed should be tried stateside, with 37 percent calling for the trial to take place at a U.S. facility in another country.

     “The decision to bring Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in front of a civilian court is universally unpopular – even a majority of Democrats and liberals say that he should be tried by military authorities,” says CNN Polling Director Keating Holland. “Despite that, most Americans say that he will get a fair trial in the U.S.”

     More @:
     http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
     ———————*————–

     The Obamatons’ hysterical, Pavlovian reactions in all things Obama is simply amazing – the only explanation for the legalistic contortions and ratiocinations they are willing to go through in defending him is PARANOIA, paranoia probably generated by the gnawing guilt caused by Obama’s illegitimacy -
175. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:46 pm , tminu said...

     Obama is just our Executive Terrorist.
     Look at his new Rules of Engagement deliberately meant to murder and demoralize our troops!

     Just listen to the things Obama has come up with in his Afnamistan as reported by the Washington Times.

     Rule 1: American Soldiers can not surprise terrorists with searches. The same terrorists in Obama’s Afnamistan can not have their sleep disturbed, so there will be no night searches.
     Warfare therefore according to Obama can only take place during the daylight hours.

     Rule 2: When terrorists are going to be searched, the terrorists in Obama’s friends in al Qaeda and the TalEEban must first be warned by an appropriate amount of time so as not to inconvenience the terrorists.

     Rule 3: United States Soldiers can not conduct any military actual warfare searches against terrorists unless they are escorted and chaperoned by Afghanistan Army or Afghanistan Police forces, so as not to offend the fraudulent government of Afnamistan or the terrorists.

     Rule 4: United States Soldiers must wait with weapons dropped in an nonthreatening position until terrorists are given the first live burst of shots at US Soldiers.

     Rule 5: When terrorists are using human hostages as shields, hiding in villages or running into camps to avoid being killed by United States Soldiers, United States Soldiers can not return fire nor engage the terrorists when Afghanistan civilians are present.
     United States Soldiers must first evacuate the local population in daylight before engaging the terrorists.

     Rule 6: Only female United States Soldiers, who are not allowed in actual combat situations can search female terrorists.

     Rule 7: United States Soldiers can only fire at terrorists while placing mines, IED’s etc… to murder United States Soldiers. If the terrorists have already laid the IED’s, they can not be fired upon as they leave the area…….
     According to that rule, US Soldiers seeing armed terrorists must approach them with weapons dropped, notify them in a friendly manner they are under arrest, wait to be shot and take casualties first, and only then can they return fire, allow in their bomb explosive experts to be blown up trying to defuse the IED, and send home more dead US Soldiers.
     So the last 5 rules in Obama’s Afnamistan 12 Step Program in his addiction of war are: Rule 8-12: Americans die.
176. On November 16th, 2009 at 7:51 pm , tminu said...

     Sise: You’re not weeweed up at all over the soldiers slaughtered in Afnamistan due to Obama’s insane murderous Rules of Engagement, delaying on troop augmentation to force them to fight guerilla war in the winter weather mountains, or his weak platitudes to the Muslim world (case in point Egypt) which have encouraged more violence against Americans, yet you care about KSM and a squirt of water on his face to glean information to prevent more deaths.

     You are quite simply an enemy of America. You are all for Americans dying.
177. On November 16th, 2009 at 8:09 pm , Sharon 2 said...

     (Wouldn’t you think after oh, say 2, maybe 3 waterboards when you didn’t get the info you wanted you’d maybe say, gosh, this waterboarding thing isn’t very effective?) John Yoo is a disgrace.

     - I saw all videos concerning Privates Menchaca and Tucker, if you even remember them. They affected me very deeply. I was then and am sickened now by all the concern for those waterboarded, who weren’t mutilated to the point of being unrecognizable. I can’t be objective in the waterboarding argument. The sensation of drowning must be petrifying, even if you know that death is not intended. No doubt. I don’t care that KSM experienced that feeling. Maybe I should, but I can’t pretend that I feel any sympathy or horror. It is too bad the press never expressed the same degree of outrage about the terrible fate of Privates Menchaca and Tucker.

     Sure, intelligence officers will do their job the best that they can while trying to complete the mission and survive. They have the added pressure of being able to lay the foundation for a case under the strictest standard: proof beyond a reasonable doubt, under conditions that police don’t have to operate. Miranda warning are the subjects of appeals (whether they were given properly, knowingly waived, …) I can’t imagine trying to be as meticulous as civilian police in preserving a crime scene, tracking down witnesses, and all that under the pressure of war. I am going to contact a milblogger who is an intelligence officer and see if I can get his take on this. He recently shut down his blog so I don’t know if he would be willing to come on this board or not. A few years ago, I requested him to respond to some people on a website, and he did.

     Military Tribunals Undermine
     the Constitution

     By Laurence Tribe

     The title is not really accurate: it was the Military Order issued by President Bush on November 13 that he dissected. He agreed with military tribunals but explained that this particular draft was flawed. (I thought Tribe’s analysis was well-written) Although Tribe didn’t talk about KSM particularly, it seems to me that his is the very case that Tribe felt should be tried by a military tribunal, if you read the article. The small potatoes should get the criminal trials.

     http://74.125.93.132/search?q=cache:h-Re1nXdPZIJ:www.counterpunch.org/ltribe1.html+standard+of+proof+military+tribunals&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
178. On November 16th, 2009 at 8:23 pm , MGB said...

     Geir: Have you seen the movie THE LAST WAVE? I recommend it highly. It’s fascinating. The Australian Aboriginal take on the end of days.
179. On November 16th, 2009 at 8:28 pm , MGB said...

     Geir: Remember that movie THE LATE, GREAT PLANET EARTH? That one had everyone scared, too. Didn’t happen. Then there was the scare about the New Madrid fault. Didn’t happen. Of course, at any time, the magnetic poles could flip. Big deal. Has happened before. Will happen again. At any time, the Yellowstone caldera could blow. Has happened before. Could happen again. That would be bad news for the western U.S. Not to mention the tourists who’d be skyrocketed into the troposphere. Without parachutes.
180. On November 16th, 2009 at 8:40 pm , qwertyman said...

     I can’t be objective in the waterboarding argument.

     Totally understandable. KSM is guilty of unspeakable crimes.

     Maybe I should, but I can’t pretend that I feel any sympathy or horror. It is too bad the press never expressed the same degree of outrage about the terrible fate of Privates Menchaca and Tucker.

     I don’t feel any sympathy for KSM either. He will face justice in this world in the next. But we expect terrorists to commit atrocities and murder unarmed people with gruesome methods. We’re supposed to be better than that. We’re not supposed to stoop to that level.

     Torture is a line that no civilized country should or is legally allowed to cross, under any circumstances. Waterboarding is torture under any definition of the word. We should not waterboard anybody under any circumstances, period. Not even a terrorist.

     They have the added pressure of being able to lay the foundation for a case under the strictest standard: proof beyond a reasonable doubt, under conditions that police don’t have to operate. Miranda warning are the subjects of appeals (whether they were given properly, knowingly waived, …) I can’t imagine trying to be as meticulous as civilian police in preserving a crime scene, tracking down witnesses, and all that under the pressure of war

     I don’t think we’ll see any civilian court demanding anywhere near that high a level of attention required for Mirandizing or crime scene procedure, much less releasing a terrorist arrested in a warzone for failure to read Miranda rights or inform the terrorist of his Vienna Convention rights. See Hamdi v. Rumseld:

     At the same time, the exigencies of the circumstances may demand that, aside from these core elements, enemy combatant proceedings may be tailored to alleviate their uncommon potential to burden the Executive at a time of ongoing military conflict. Hearsay, for example, may need to be accepted as the most reliable available evidence from the Government in such a proceeding. Likewise, the Constitution would not be offended by a presumption in favor of the Government’s evidence, so long as that presumption remained a rebuttable one and fair opportunity for rebuttal were provided. Thus, once the Government puts forth credible evidence that the habeas petitioner meets the enemy-combatant criteria, the onus could shift to the petitioner to rebut that evidence with more persuasive evidence that he falls outside the criteria. A burden-shifting scheme of this sort would meet the goal of ensuring that the errant tourist, embedded journalist, or local aid worker has a chance to prove military error while giving due regard to the Executive once it has put forth meaningful support for its conclusion that the detainee is in fact an enemy combatant. In the words of Mathews, process of this sort would sufficiently address the “risk of erroneous deprivation” of a detainee’s liberty interest while eliminating certain procedures that have questionable additional value in light of the burden on the Government.
181. On November 16th, 2009 at 8:41 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE MGB:

     [..] Didn’t happen. Then there was the scare about the New Madrid fault. Didn’t happen. [...]

     Right you are, MGB. Then, remember: hope and change – didn’t happen; transparency – didn’t happen; finding the dogs that ate my biography, give them purgatives and come with the retrieved paper trail in the front of this nation the clear everything – ain’t happen (yet); etc. etc…
182. On November 16th, 2009 at 9:15 pm , brygenon said...

     Pat Smith says:

     Somehow I cannot get all wee wee’d up if KSM was waterboarded 5 times or 183 times.

     I’m with you that far — no sympathy for KSM. What bothers me is that my country did the torture. What’s worse, they did it in my name, as if We The People of of the United States of America were so afraid that we would sell out our principles.

     Remember when America was the land of the free and home of the brave?

     Weak politicians play on fear. Great leaders inspire courage. We went through some bad times, but last year we made the right choice. We could have continued cowering in fear for our safety, as the terrorists intended, but we chose to stand up.
183. On November 16th, 2009 at 9:17 pm , Sharon 2 said...

     enemy combatant proceedings- Hamdi

     The case of KSM is a murder case.

     For those expecting a sentence of death:

     A single juror saved Moussaoui from death. The foreman of the 12-person federal jury told The Washington Post that the panel voted 11-1, 10-2 and 10-2 in favor of the death penalty on the three charges for which Moussaoui was eligible for execution.[39] A unanimous vote on any one of the three terrorism charges was required to return a death sentence. (from Wiki)
     __________

     Waterboarding is torture under any definition of the word. We should not waterboard anybody under any circumstances, period. Not even a terrorist.

     - A kidnapper knows where your child is. He won’t tell. Waterboard him? Or let you kid never be found? (of course police don’t waterboard- just making a point) Even though I don’t feel sympathy for what KSM suffered, I wouldn’t agree with waterboarding solely for the sake of punishment, only to get information. I don’t believe that it is entirely ineffective.

     I am not a big proponent of the death penalty.
184. On November 16th, 2009 at 9:32 pm , Observer said...

     We should not waterboard anybody under any circumstances, period. Not even a terrorist.

     Not even journalists??!! Was it torture then or just a “procedure”? I mean, since we no longer have “terrorists” or “wars on terror”, maybe we could also just conveniently not “torture” by using the same “procedure”!!! What’s good for the goose, etc.
185. On November 16th, 2009 at 9:54 pm , GeorgetownJD said...

     Phil says:
     November 15, 2009 at 9:54 pm

     GeorgetownJD,

     Phil said:

     “What’s more, since a civilian Court would be given jurisdiction, that means that KSM shall have all of the Constitutional rights at trial that any other American citizen has.”

     Phil, remind me why this is a bad thing?

     While I think Observer has made what I would consider to be an agreeable response, I suppose it doesn’t mean a whole lot except for a vehement debate back and forth.

     After all, the trial is going to be in NYC, no matter what anyone thinks about it.

     Of course, there is always the concept that all illegal immigrants could instantaneously become legal American citizens by virtue of being on American soil if we’re going to use the same standard some are trying to use — terrorists on American soil = American citizens. If this were really true, then what would all the hubbub over illegal immigration be about?

     -Phil

     ____________________

     Nice dodge, Phil. Let me rephrase. Why all the worry about allowing KSM the rights to a trial before a jury, to assistance of counsel, to confront witnesses, to decline to testify if his testimony would tend to incriminate himself, etc.? Are you afraid that giving him a fair trial in a civilian court will result in an acquittal? That appears to be your inference.

     All persons tried for crimes on American soil have these constitutional rights. Constitutional rights are not reserved solely for citizens. Adherence to the principles of fair trial is not going to magically transform illegal immigrants into permanent resident aliens.
186. On November 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm , Observer said...

     All persons tried for crimes on American soil have these constitutional rights.

     I think you had better define your terms.
187. On November 16th, 2009 at 10:03 pm , Sharon 2 said...

     Why all the worry about allowing KSM the rights to a trial before a jury, to assistance of counsel, to confront witnesses, to decline to testify if his testimony would tend to incriminate himself, etc.?

     -Would a military tribunal provide the same? What is the difference in standard of proof? How much discovery should he be allowed in his trial, especially considering the possibility that he may represent himself? Does a jury of his peers include Muslims?
188. On November 16th, 2009 at 10:04 pm , qwertyman said...

     A kidnapper knows where your child is. He won’t tell. Waterboard him? Or let you kid never be found? (of course police don’t waterboard- just making a point) Even though I don’t feel sympathy for what KSM suffered, I wouldn’t agree with waterboarding solely for the sake of punishment, only to get information. I don’t believe that it is entirely ineffective.

     Torture has long been shown to be ineffective as a means of intelligence.

     I mean, take a look at the transcript of KSM at a hearing in Gitmo.

     http://www.defenselink.mil/news/transcript_ISN10024.pdf

     Starting at page 18, KSM confesses to being the most maniacal villain this side of Blofeld. Dozens of plots and plans. I have grave doubts that he is actually responsible for every single one of those plots. A person under torture will say anything to stop it. Perhaps he is the most maniacal villain this side of Blofeld. But all of that is in doubt because at least some of that confession comes from statements made under torture. It potentially taints everything he confessed to in that hearing.
189. On November 16th, 2009 at 10:48 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     Here’s how Berkeley feels about John Yoo:

     http://www.flickr.com/photos/sixesandsevens/4054314630/
190. On November 16th, 2009 at 10:59 pm , Observer said...

     Torture has long been shown to be ineffective as a means of intelligence.

     Spoken from experience no doubt. Excepting perhaps for certain targets in CA who just happen to still be among us today?
191. On November 16th, 2009 at 11:35 pm , qwertyman said...

     Spoken from experience no doubt. Excepting perhaps for certain targets in CA who just happen to still be among us today?

     Spoken from the experience of survivors of torture, such as John McCain.
192. On November 16th, 2009 at 11:41 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE qwertyman:

     [...] Torture is a line that no civilized country should or is legally allowed to cross, under any circumstances. Waterboarding is torture under any definition of the word. We should not waterboard anybody under any circumstances, period. Not even a terrorist. [...]

     Qwerty, I am totally dwarfed by your enlightenment and superiority.
     Still, maybe you want to explore further this issue before segueing in your grandstanding bouts – check Jean Paul Sartre’s play “The Prisoner of Altona” and you will have the opportunity to ponder a smart guy’s views on this matter (definitely smarter than the Kumbaya-addled crew you hang with).
     There is also the film you can rent with Maximillian Schell, Frederich March and Sophia Loren -

     By the way, Jean Paul Sartre was a Nobel Prize awardee, too – but one who REFUSED the prize, not like our Mumia Jabal – heh-heh-heh -

     Best regards -
193. On November 16th, 2009 at 11:56 pm , Sharon 2 said...

     Q,

     I read the part of the transcript you pointed out. That was his own statement, not a statement that someone else wrote for him and made him sign. He was a high value target and probably committed numerous offenses. Also, maybe he wants credit, even if he didn’t commit every action named in his statement.
194. On November 17th, 2009 at 12:18 am , qwertyman said...

     I read the part of the transcript you pointed out. That was his own statement, not a statement that someone else wrote for him and made him sign. He was a high value target and probably committed numerous offenses. Also, maybe he wants credit, even if he didn’t commit every action named in his statement.

     Yes, it’s what he has said after being repeatedly tortured over the course of years. He probably has committed numerous offenses, but which of those things are plans that he is actually guilty for, which are him trying to boast, and which are things that he said to simply make the waterboarding stop? The truth is we don’t know.

     And anybody can be made to give a “freely made” statement. See the video tapes of the British sailors captured by the Iranians who “repeatedly apologized” of their own free will on camera for invading their territorial waters.
195. On November 17th, 2009 at 12:31 am , Sharon 2 said...

     See the video tapes of the British sailors captured by the Iranians who “repeatedly apologized” of their own free will on camera for invading their territorial waters.

     - Those sailors were not hardened to the degree of KSM. Even our own judicial system results in false confessions. Isn’t there corroborating evidence? Would you volunteer to represent KSM if given the chance?
196. On November 17th, 2009 at 12:57 am , qwertyman said...

     - Those sailors were not hardened to the degree of KSM. Even our own judicial system results in false confessions. Isn’t there corroborating evidence? Would you volunteer to represent KSM if given the chance?

     The sailors also weren’t tortured for years.

     I agree with you that we don’t know whether or not what KSM “confessed” to were all actions for which he is guilty. For at least some of his confessed crimes, there is publicly disclosed corroborating evidence. For several of the other items, such as his confession to plotting to blow up NATO and others, there is no publicly available evidence to support his confession. I wish I didn’t have this doubt of whether or not his confession was unlawfully coerced.

     Would I volunteer to represent him? No, I wouldn’t jump at the chance to defend a mass murderer whom I’ve seen murder unarmed people on video. If there was nobody who volunteered and I was asked, then I would. Everybody deserves counsel. Otherwise, you start a slippery slope. That’s also why I oppose our government’s treatment of him while at Gitmo – because it’s easy to start with him. But where does it stop? If we don’t draw the line at NOBODY GETS TORTURED, then where does that line get drawn?
197. On November 17th, 2009 at 1:16 am , Pat Smith said...

     These OBots are making me feel bad that we waterboarded KSM. After all, he is just a poor misguided Terrorist. Maybe if KSM is acquitted, one of these OBots will welcome him into their neighborhood. Maybe KSM could coach their kid’s soccer team.

     We should be ashamed..ASHAMED that we tortured this poor guy. It really is not important if that torture provided any information that was used to prevent another tragety because, after all, torturing a Terrorist is….well….just NOT nice.

     Now I am sure that an OBot will cite the Constitution, Geneva Convention, Declaration of Independence, Gettysburg Address and Obama’s Rule on Playing Nice.

     I intend to do an Act of Contrition for the torture we did on this poor guy. Maybe a trip to Lourdes. After that I will bake KSM a batch of cookies.
198. On November 17th, 2009 at 1:23 am , SanDiegoSam said...

     Bob Strauss:

     I’m not your mamma, boy. Go cry to somebody else about your hurt feelings.
199. On November 17th, 2009 at 1:37 am , Sharon 2 said...

     The sailors also weren’t tortured for years.

     - They gave a false confession and were not tortured, just scared and worried about torture. (Unless you believe they were being truthful in their confession?)

     I’ll have to wait on any response. I am going to watch PArt 2 of The Prisoner.
200. On November 17th, 2009 at 7:03 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     MGB,
     The Apocalypse is a bit heavier than thought

     http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=9100988
     New Hit Film “2012″ Beats Estimate by $5 Million

     LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – Disaster movie “2012″ wreaked even more havoc at the box-office than expected, Columbia Pictures said on Monday, taking in $230.4 million worldwide on its opening weekend.

     Sony said the movie that uses the Mayan calendar and other end-of-days prophecies to depict the world’s demise came in above its initial box office estimate on Sunday of $225 million globally. Moviegoers in North America chipped in $65.2 million, while international audiences contributed $165.2 million.

     The only major market where it is not playing is Japan, where the film opens next weekend.

     Columbia, a unit of Sony Corp, said “2012″ recorded the highest worldwide opening ever for an original film not based on an established franchise, brand or best-selling novel.

     The overall record of $394 million was set earlier this year by “Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince.” “2012″ ranks at No. 9.

     http://shanghaiist.com/2009/11/17/2012_lessons_on_how_to_be_a_chinese.php

     2012: Lessons on how to be a Chinese box-office hit

     2012, the new apocalyptic movie by director Roland Emmerich, opened this weekend in Shanghai to smashing box office records, showing that Hollywood’s discovered at least one way its blockbusters can make a killing in China – by pandering to the Chinese.

     The movie depicts fictional events tied to a Mayan prophecy predicting the world’s end on December 12, 2012. We haven’t seen it, but many critics have complained that it’s little more than a string of ridiculous special effects, lasting a daunting 2 hours and 40 minutes. On popular review congregator site Rotten Tomatoes, it scored a measly 39%.

     However, here in the Middle Kingdom, the movie has been a smashing success, grossing 9 million RMB just this weekend. Why?

     Most likely because it depicts China as savior to the world, prying it from the edge of impending doom. In the movie, the Americans turn to China to build the ‘ark’ that will save the population because ‘the task would be impossible if given to any other nation.’ In one theater, the entire audience erupted into applause after the PLA saluted American refugees arriving in China.

     Though the movie seems to have gotten the majority of China to fawn over it, some have been hypercritical of Hollywood’s being-pro-China-for-a-quick-buck stance.

     They pointed out that 2012 was one of the few international movies that made it completely past the Chinese censors without having anything cut. Other China portraying movies, like Mission Impossible III, had crucial minutes cut out for daring to portray Chinese people as uncaring or thug-like. And last year’s Dark Knight, arguably one of the biggest Hollywood pictures of the year, wasn’t allowed into the country because of… “cultural sensitivities.”

     A movie being too pro-China, and Chinese movie watchers being ridiculously willing to ignore how bad the movie is just because it is pro-China, doesn’t urge Chinese to ponder the ‘inadequacies of their country,’ the critics complain.

     Plus, who knows what this could mean for the future of Hollywood. Maybe the next Batman flick will feature a Chinese actor saving Gotham City from itself using Chinese socialism?

     http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/8362224.stm

     2012 movie explodes at box office

     Geir:

     Don’t forget these are people looking at an Apocalypse happening and that beckons another thought: what Antichrist is behind it ? OBAMA !!! Obama is the Antichrist : he is announced
201. On November 17th, 2009 at 7:14 am , bystander said...

     Geir – could you just provide links in your posts so that it is quicker for everyone to scroll past them? Noone is reading your junk, and it is tiresome to have it take up so much space. Kthks
202. On November 17th, 2009 at 7:26 am , Benaiah said...

     Is America at war, or not?
     by Pat Buchanan
     http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=116268

     Are we at war – or not?

     For if we are at war, why is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed headed for trial in federal court in the Southern District of New York? Why is he entitled to a presumption of innocence and all of the constitutional protections of a U.S. citizen?

     Is it possible we have done an injustice to this man by keeping him locked up all these years without trial? For that is what this trial implies – that he may not be guilty.

     And if we must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that KSM was complicit in mass murder, by what right do we send Predators and Special Forces to kill his al-Qaida comrades wherever we find them? For none of them has been granted a fair trial.

     When the Justice Department sets up a task force to wage war on a crime organization like the Mafia or MS-13, no U.S. official has a right to shoot Mafia or gang members on sight. No one has a right to bomb their homes. No one has a right to regard the possible death of their wives and children in an attack as acceptable collateral damage.

     A jaw-dropping expose on the six-month undercover operation that revealed the true terror-supporting nature of CAIR: “Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld That’s Conspiring to Islamize America.” It’s also available in electronic form at reduced price through Scribd.

     Yet that is what we do to al-Qaida, to which KSM belongs.

     We conduct those strikes in good conscience because we believe we are at war. But if we are at war, what is KSM doing in a U.S. court?

     Minoru Genda, who planned the attack on Pearl Harbor, a naval base on U.S. soil, when America was at peace, and killed nearly as many Americans as the Sept. 11 hijackers, was not brought here for trial. He was an enemy combatant under the Geneva Conventions and treated as such.

     When Maj. Andre, the British spy and collaborator of Benedict Arnold, was captured, he got a military tribunal, after which he was hanged. When Gen. Andrew Jackson captured two British subjects in Spanish Florida aiding renegade Indians, Jackson had both tried and hanged on the spot.

     Enemy soldiers who commit atrocities are not sent to the United States for trial. Under the Geneva Conventions, soldiers who commit atrocities are shot when caught.

     When and where did Khalid Sheikh Mohammed acquire his right to a trial by a jury of his peers in a U.S. court?

     When John Wilkes Booth shot Abraham Lincoln, alleged collaborators like Mary Surratt were tried before a military tribunal and hanged at Fort McNair. When eight German saboteurs were caught in 1942 after being put ashore by U-boat, they were tried in secret before a military commission and executed, with the approval of the Supreme Court. What makes KSM special?

     Is the Obama administration aware of what it is risking by not turning KSM over to a military tribunal in Guantanamo?

     How does Justice handle a defense demand for a change of venue, far from lower Manhattan, where the jury pool was most deeply traumatized by Sept. 11? Would not KSM and his co-defendants, if a change of venue is denied, have a powerful argument for overturning any conviction on appeal?

     Were not KSM’s Miranda rights impinged when he was not only not told he could have a lawyer on capture, but that his family would be killed and he would be waterboarded if he refused to talk?

     And if all the evidence against the five defendants comes from other than their own testimony under duress, do not their lawyers have a right to know when, where, how and from whom Justice got the evidence to prosecute them? Does KSM have the right to confront all witnesses against him, even if they are al-Qaida turncoats or U.S. spies still transmitting information to U.S. intelligence?

     There have been reports that in the trials of those convicted in the first World Trade Center bombing, sources and methods were compromised, weakening our security for the second attack on Sept. 11.

     If the trial is held in lower Manhattan, how much security will be needed to protect against a car bomber who wants the world to see a mighty blow struck against the Great Satan? And if, as some suggest, the trial should be held on Governor’s Island, would that not make the United States look like a nation under siege?

     What do we do if the case against KSM is thrown out because the government refuses to reveal sources or methods, or if he gets a hung jury, or is acquitted, or has his conviction overturned?

     In America, trials often become games, where the prosecution, though it has truth on its side, loses because it inadvertently breaks one of the rules.

     The Obamaites had best pray that does not happen, for they may be betting his presidency on the outcome of the game about to begin.
203. On November 17th, 2009 at 7:44 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     no bystander, you’ll have to live with the apocalypse being all over all the time and it being you leaving

     you got your time and it’s over
204. On November 17th, 2009 at 8:20 am , siseduermapierda said...

     Pat Smith says:
     November 17, 2009 at 1:16 am
     * After all, he is just a poor misguided Terrorist. *
     He’s a mass murderer. There is enough evidence to convict him 10 times over without torturing him. Waterboarded 183 times and no actionable intelligence recovered. Nice work!

     *We should be ashamed..ASHAMED that we tortured this poor guy.*
     Anyone who supported the Bush Admin should be. We are America. We don’t f@cking torture ( borrowed that from Shep)
205. On November 17th, 2009 at 9:29 am , Black Lion said...

     Instead of the fearmongering and exaggerations that we get from the Cheney/Limbaugh wing of the GOP, it is good to see that some people on the right/conservatives actually go past partisan politics and look at what is best for our country…

     Regarding Gitmo….

     [O]n Sunday, a group of highly respected conservative figures lent their support to the transfer, calling it necessary to “preserve national security” while simultaneously avoiding “sweeping and radical departures from an American constitutional tradition.”

     In a joint statement prepared by the Constitution Project, David Keene, founder of American Conservative Union, Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, and former representative and presidential candidate Bob Barr say moving suspected terrorists to the Thomson, Illinois prison facility, “makes good sense.” Taxpayers, they note, have already invested $145 million in the facility, which has been “little used.” And the surrounding community, they add, could benefit from increased employment once the prison becomes filled.

     “The scaremongering about these issues should stop,” they add, noting that there is “absolutely no reason to fear that prisoners will escape or be released into their communities.”

     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/16/conservative-trio-support_n_358928.html
206. On November 17th, 2009 at 9:51 am , Black Lion said...

     From Sen. Pat Leahy….

     “I think that Eric Holder, our attorney general, is right. I think the president is right in holding the trials of these murderers in New York City. What we’re saying to the world is the United States acts out of strength, not out of fear. I know when I go around Vermont, people say, let’s try criminals. Let’s try criminals like KSM. Let’s get them convicted. We’re very much a law enforcement type of state here.”

     “I was a former prosecutor. I’d like to just see them prosecuted. In the same which way we prosecuted Timothy McVeigh. We’re not afraid to do that. We’re the most powerful nation on earth. We have a judicial system that is the envy of the world. Let’s show the world that we can use that power. We can use our judicial system, just as we did with Timothy McVeigh, and send the people — and convict the people.”

     “Bob, if somebody murders Americans and they murder Americans in America, they ought to be prosecuted in America, and hopefully convicted in America. I mean, if somebody comes into our country and murders somebody walking down the street, we’re going to prosecute them here. It doesn’t make any difference whether they’re Americans or not Americans. They committed the crime in America, and that’s what he did.”

     “I think that the administration is doing the right thing. They’re using all the things we have available. With Major Hasan, we’re using a court martial at Fort Hood. That’s the appropriate venue for that. With these 9/11 murderers, we’re using the criminal courts in New York for them. With the people who bombed the U.S. Cole, we’ll use the newly reconstituted military tribunals.”

     “I think it’s an example we’re showing the rest of the world. We have systems that work. We’re not afraid of these people. We’re ready to stand up to them. I don’t think we should run and hide and cower. Let’s use our system. And let’s convict them.”

     http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/leahy-if-somebody-murders-americans-americ
207. On November 17th, 2009 at 10:04 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Distracted as usual, people don’t have their eye on the ball.
     The fact of an Apocalypse physically hitting us is not the focus of this phenomenon of a disaster-flick hitting the world by surprise.

     1. The audience dwells mentally up on it – OK.

     2. Grips up in fear and it goes into a seizure.

     3. That is impermanent and will be gone by a week from now: it wears off…

     4. But something will remain, which is that any Apocalypse as the Bible speaks of, also has a slight little detail, people don’t keep their eye on. Why ? because people don’t study and are not learned.

     5. What detail is that ? It’s that the Apocalypse brings about the Antichrist (666-announced Obama, and a meteorite announced him too.), so we’re in that now. This film is just the messenger of the REAL APOCALYPSE.

     6. The real Apocalypse is announced by many signs and messengers.

     http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/17/science/17essay.html
208. On November 17th, 2009 at 11:07 am , bob strauss said...

     sam, Feelings are not hurt, just making everyone aware of your tactics.

     Obfuscate and belittle, misstate opinions, and promote liars.
209. On November 17th, 2009 at 11:21 am , Observer said...

     Like a pre-teen grabbing the car keys = disaster. “utter recklessness”. Wisdom here … for those who can recognize wisdom:

     Obama’s Bow to “World Opinion”

     Thomas Sowell says that in the string of amazing decisions made during the first year of the Obama administration, nothing seems more like sheer insanity than the decision to try foreign terrorists, who have committed acts of war against the United States, in federal court, as if they were American citizens accused of crimes.

     Terrorists are not even entitled to the protection of the Geneva Convention, much less the Constitution of the United States. Terrorists have never observed, nor even claimed to have observed, the Geneva Convention, nor are they among those covered by it.

     But over and above the utter inconsistency of what is being done is the utter recklessness it represents. The last time an attack on the World Trade Center was treated as a matter of domestic criminal justice was after a bomb was exploded there in 1993. Under the rules of American criminal law, the prosecution had to turn over all sorts of information to the defense — information that told the Al Qaeda international terrorist network what we knew about them and how we knew it.

     This was nothing more and nothing less than giving away military secrets to an enemy in wartime — something for which people have been executed, as they should have been. Secrecy in warfare is a matter of life and death. Lives were risked and lost during World War II to prevent Nazi Germany from discovering that Britain had broken its supposedly unbreakable Enigma code and could read their military plans that were being radioed in that code.

     “Loose lips sink ships” was the World War II motto in the United States. But loose lips are mandated under the rules of criminal prosecutions.

     Tragically, this administration seems hell-bent to avoid seeing acts of terrorism against the United States as acts of war. The very phrase “war on terrorism” is avoided, as if that will stop the terrorists’ war on us.

     The mindset of the left behind such thinking was spelled out in an editorial in the San Francisco Chronicle, which said that “Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, the professed mastermind of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, will be tried the right way — the American way, in a federal courtroom, where the world will see both his guilt and the nation’s adherence to the rule of law.”

     This is not the rule of law but the application of laws to situations for which they were not designed.

     How many Americans may pay with their lives for the intelligence secrets and methods that can be forced to be disclosed to Al Qaeda was not mentioned. Nor was there mention of how many foreign nations and individuals whose cooperation with us in the war on terror have been involved in countering Al Qaeda — nor how many foreign nations and individuals will have to think twice now, before cooperating with us again, when their role can be revealed in court to our enemies, who can exact revenge on them.

     Behind this decision and others is the notion that we have to demonstrate our good faith to other nations, sometimes called “world opinion.” Just who are these saintly nations whose favor we must curry, at the risk of American lives and the national security of the United States?

     Internationally, the law of the jungle ultimately prevails, despite pious talk about “the international community” and “world opinion,” or the pompous and corrupt farce of the United Nations. Yet this is the gallery to which Barack Obama has been playing, both before and after becoming President of the United States.

     In the wake of the obscenity of a trial of terrorists in federal court for an act of war — and the worldwide propaganda platform it will give them — it may seem to be a small thing that Obama has been photographed yet again bowing deeply to a foreign ruler. But how large or small an act is depends on its actual consequences, not on whether the politically correct intelligentsia think it is no big deal.

     As a private citizen, Barack Obama has a right to make as big a jackass of himself as he wants to. But, as President of the United States, his actions not only denigrate a nation that other nations rely on for survival, but raise questions about how reliable our judgment and resolve are — which in turn raises questions about whether those nations will consider themselves better off to make the best deal they can with our enemies.
210. On November 17th, 2009 at 11:22 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     We have 3 kinds of people

     1. people saying Obama must fess up on the birth issue.

     2. people saying Obama can fess up on the birth issue but he’s part of a bigger issue of moral-religious dimensions coming from signs announcing he’s the Antichrist.

     These people can’t meet half-way, because the scientific minds does not think Rationality can meet divine heavenly signs; miracles and Bible-prophecy or prophecy by faiths such as mine: Tibetan Tantric Buddhism’s Kalachakra.

     This is is complicated and the lesser intelligences reading this forum will have jumped off this topic long ago.

     3. third category is people following the general trend of the
     public which adheres to largely publicized and widely-spread ideas, ideologies and patterns of thinking. That has now embraced the fad of end-of-world speculation, making 2012 a block-buster.

     I’m just saying, category 2, thinking Obama is the Antichrist, is much closer to category 3, then the other one.

     Of course category 4, Obots, they’re in a hell-world all alone. They think
     1. Obama is no problem,
     2. having 666 drawn on election day is cookl
     3. having a meteorite announce you is normal
     4. Deceiving people as a way of life including about your fake birth certificate is a way of life which is respectable.

     They’re in a category for themselves on which morality has no hold.
211. On November 17th, 2009 at 11:23 am , bob strauss said...

     Black Lion, I think they should get the same justice Obama gave to the pirates, of the ship from Alabama.

     Treat them as pirates for their act of piracy.
212. On November 17th, 2009 at 11:34 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Category 1.-people about the birth issue, must now join up with the Category 2.-people who think that Obama is the Antichrist because in any case it’s too late and the world is swamped with Category 3s who don’t know why where or how, but are immersed in the Apocalypse news.

     It’s like a tsunami and when it’s over in a few days, then it’ll all be upside down because the news of the Antichrist’s signs will spread among the debris. Then the truth will reveal like lightning from the sky. Right now the righteous are being singled out from the evil.
213. On November 17th, 2009 at 11:45 am , jvn said...

     I am sorry for the right wing types, including Pat Buchanon, who clearly don’t understand the basic principle of war: there has to be a country to make war against, otherwise it’s not a war.

     Al Qadae is an internationally organized criminal conspiracy, organized to – among other things – make terrorist attacks around the world.

     It is not a country. To the extent we are “at war” with AQ, it is the same sense that we are “at war” with drug cartels, the Mafia, and other organized criminal gangs.

     We invaded Afghanistan because the government of Afghanistan supported and sheltered the criminals who committed murder on 9/11.

     We invaded Iraq when it had a government to declare war on.

     Our troops remain in both places in an effort to support the American placed successor governments as they struggle to overcome local (and some not so local) insurgent forces. We are no longer at war with either Afghanistan or Iraq.

     I can understand the temptation to be angry and want to not follow the law in dealing with these criminals, but we are the UNITED STATES!!!!!

     We wear the white hats.

     We do what is right, always.

     If we lose that, the terrorists will have won…
214. On November 17th, 2009 at 11:48 am , Black Lion said...

     bob strauss says:
     November 17, 2009 at 11:23 am
     Black Lion, I think they should get the same justice Obama gave to the pirates, of the ship from Alabama.

     Treat them as pirates for their act of piracy.
     __________________________________________________________________
     Bob, I was born, raised, and live in NY. I work right next to Ground Zero so on this occasion I would have to agree with you. I feel that they should face that kind of justice and I would not shed a tear if they did.

     However there is a rational part of me and as much as I would love to see these guys executed, if there is a way to use the laws that they hate and despise against them, convict them, and then execute them, I would love that even more….I find these terrorists the lowest form of scum imaginable…But loving my country the way I do I also realize that we are a nation of laws and to be able to use those laws and then execute these scumbags would make it even better.
215. On November 17th, 2009 at 12:05 pm , Black Lion said...

     Benaiah says:
     November 17, 2009 at 7:26 am
     Is America at war, or not?
     by Pat Buchanan
     __________________________________________________________________
     Benaiah, I am not sure that citing an article by an avowed racist and segregationist like Buchannan is the smart thing to do. This guy has done more with words to sow disharmony and hate than anyone that is still out there. He is a bigot and nothing he says is worth listening to….

     He has defended Hitler…

     “Though Hitler was indeed racist and anti-Semitic to the core, a man who without compunction could commit murder and genocide, he was also an individual of great courage, a soldier’s soldier in the Great War, a leader steeped in the history of Europe, who possessed oratorical powers that could awe even those who despised him. But Hitler’s success was not based on his extraordinary gifts alone. His genius was an intuitive sense of the mushiness, the character flaws, the weakness masquerading as morality that was in the hearts of the statesmen who stood in his path.”

     - St. Louis Globe – Democrat, Aug 25, 1977

     Buchanan has called Adolf Hitler an “individual of great courage.” He also questioned whether World War II was “worth it” and wondered, “[W]hy destroy Hitler?” That wasn’t 40 years ago; that was just four years ago. Just last year, he wrote that the Holocaust happened not because of Hitler, but because of Churchill.

     Defending Segregation….

     “In the late 1940’s and 1950’s…race was never a preoccupation with us, we rarely thought about it….There were no politics to polarize us then, to magnify every slight. The ‘Negroes’ of Washington had their public schools, restaurants, bars, movie houses, playgrounds and churches; and we had ours.”

     - Right From the Beginning

     In addition according to reports discovered by Jake Tapper, Richard Nixon found the views of his former speech writer, Buchanan, too extreme on the segregation issue. According to a John Ehrlichman memo referenced in Nicholas Lemann’s “The Promised Land,” Nixon characterized Buchanan’s views as “segregation forever.” After Nixon was reelected, Buchanan warned his boss not to “fritter away his present high support in the nation for an ill-advised governmental effort to forcibly integrate races.”

     On Dr. King….

     “White House adviser Buchanan urged President Nixon in an April 1969 memo not to visit “the Widow King” on the first anniversary of Martin Luther King’s assassination, warning that a visit would “outrage many, many people who believe Dr. King was a fraud and a demagogue and perhaps worse…. Others consider him the Devil incarnate. Dr. King is one of the most divisive men in contemporary history.” (New York Daily News, 10/1/90)”

     “Buchanan, who opposed virtually every civil rights law and court decision of the last 30 years, published FBI smears of Martin Luther King Jr. as his own editorials in the St. Louis Globe Democrat in the mid-1960s. “We were among Hoover’s conduits to the American people,” he boasted (Right from the Beginning, p. 283).”

     http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2553

     So you can see why most would take anything Buchannan would say with a grain of salt. He is a throwback to the 1950′s and 1960′s and is full of nothing but hate and hot air. His opinion on anything, especially something that the President does, is worthless due to his obvious hate.
216. On November 17th, 2009 at 12:36 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     I’s funny to watch rationalists pissing in their pants

     http://edition.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/11/17/apocalyptic.movies/

     Waiting for the end of the world

     (CNN) — The end weighs on our minds, and the results are all over the multiplex this month.

     Last weekend’s box-office champ “2012″ primarily uses an ancient Mayan prophecy to spin a tale of world destruction. “The Road,” due out November 25, showcases a father and son navigating a post-apocalyptic world of ash, cold and cannibals. And the indie documentary “Collapse” gives voice to one man’s belief that, as we exhaust natural resources, civilization is ready to crumble.

     Such concerns have always been with us, says Alexander Riley, a sociology professor at Bucknell University who’s incorporated eschatology (the study of the end times) into his courses.

     “It’s been a constant part of the landscape in the Western world for a long time,” he says, though it’s been particularly present in recent times, perhaps driven by ever-quickening social and technological change, he adds.

     Examples can be found through the centuries. At the end of the year 999, pilgrims made their way to Jerusalem, convinced that the Last Judgment was at hand. In 1843, thousands of followers of the religious leader William Miller gathered on New England hilltops, waiting for ascension. In 1982, some believed the “Jupiter Effect” — the rough alignment of several celestial bodies — would cause catastrophe.

     And the coming of the year 2000 led to fears about technological collapse — in the form of the Y2K bug — and rumblings about the return of Jesus.

     The fact that none of these events led to the end of the world hasn’t calmed end-times fears. Indeed, many people are still trying to interpret alleged prophecies — such as the biblical Book of Revelation, Nostradamus’ verses and that 2012-focused Mayan Long Count calendar — in hopes of figuring out exactly when the other shoe will drop, and humanity will be freed from its vale of tears.
     I think it’s a desire to sort of say … ‘We won’t have to worry about the future, because there is no future.’
     –Wheeler Winston Dixon, University of Nebraska-Lincoln

     Riley observes that end-times passions find particularly fertile soil in the United States, which has a higher degree of religiosity compared to other developed nations, according to a 2008 Gallup survey. At the evangelical Friends Church in Yorba Linda, California — one of the largest Quaker churches in the world — Phil Hotsenpiller, the church’s teaching pastor, gives a yearly series of lectures on end-times concepts and says interest has been high, with “lines out the door.”

     He says that he tries to educate his audience about the sources of apocalyptic thought, and why biblical prophecy is such a draw for some.

     “Biblical prophecy lays out a scenario that God says this is what’s going to happen, and just watch for these signs,” he says.

     The movie business has taken notice: The Weinstein Company, producers of “The Road,” asked Hotsenpiller to take his show on, well, the road to discuss themes of the film.

     But it’s not just Christian groups that have an end-times fascination. Riley says that all the major monotheistic faiths — Judaism, Christianity and Islam — have variations on the belief that God interacts directly with humanity, and has made a promise “to wrap things up, and then we’ll get on with Act Two.”

     That idea of an Act Two — or, better yet, a conclusion — satisfies something innate in humans, he says.

     “Lots of people have an interest in cultural narratives … that have a closure that coincides to some degree with their own lives,” Riley says. Science provides a story as well, he says, “but it’s very open-ended.” The eschatological narrative, on the other hand, says “the world is going to come to an end, and it’s likely going to come to an end in my lifetime. So conveniently, everything is going to wrap up when or before MY life wraps up.”

     Which is where Hollywood, longtime manufacturer of great stories and seeker of customer satisfaction, comes in.

     Movie history is replete with end-of-the-world scenarios, whether driven by religion (“The Seventh Sign”), alien invasion (“Mars Attacks!”), environmental disaster (“The Day After Tomorrow”), warfare (“Dr. Strangelove”) or much of the above (“Beneath the Planet of the Apes”). Wheeler Winston Dixon, Ryan Professor of Film Studies at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, points out that the topic is almost as old as film itself: The first sound film of Abel Gance, who made the groundbreaking 1927 silent “Napoleon,” was 1931′s “The End of the World,” in which a comet slams into Earth. (It flopped.)

     Such films allow us to enjoy the present while watching a fantasy about the future, he says.

     “I think it’s a desire to sort of say … ‘We won’t have to worry about the future, because there is no future,’ ” he says. “And so therefore, we can do what we want now, and all the debts are put off and all the responsibilities are avoided.”

     Besides, “the complete destruction of the world has always been attractive, because … by witnessing that act and staying outside of it, you’ve witnessed the apocalypse,” he says. “It’s much like a horror movie. It allows you to participate without risk.”

     “We love adrenaline,” adds Peter Hankoff, a writer-producer of documentaries for the National Geographic Channel and the Discovery Channel, among others. “We always have this need to be vigilant or hypervigilant. So when something like this comes on our radar of the possibility of the end, it peaks our adrenaline level. … We love disaster, and we love to avert it.”

     But Hankoff, a pleasurably acerbic skeptic who has made documentaries about Nostradamus, says it’s hard to persuade people invested in end-times theories to revise their views.

     “The problem is, when you’re faced with the facts, and faced with finding real concrete proof … 2 plus 2 equals 4, no matter how many times you add it up.” Believing in the end offers power to the dispossessed, he adds: “[If] there’s this level of feeling of insignificance, what’s the greatest equalizer in the world? The end of the world.”

     Sometimes, the fixation can lead to tragedy. In 1995, members of the Japanese group Aum Shinrikyo released sarin nerve gas into the Tokyo subway system, killing 12 people. Two years later, members of the Heaven’s Gate cult committed suicide in the belief that a spaceship was going to come and take them off earth.

     And many terrorists and agitators subscribe to end-times beliefs, with hope that their provocations can lead to apocalypse.

     Still, as optimists are fond of pointing out, “apocalypse” doesn’t mean end, but is Greek for “revelation” — an unveiling of truth. In that respect, says Hotsenpiller, a concern about the end can lead to a desire to fix things: hope that we, as humans, can make a positive impact.

     “All of us deep down know that something’s wrong with the world and with us as people,” he says. “There is something wired into us, or placed in there by God, that says, ‘Every one of you is going to have to deal with the issues that … aren’t right in your life.’ That doesn’t have to be a negative. It can be a positive. It can be where I come to grips with who I am as a person, with who I am before God, and I make some changes.”

     And for those who are still convinced that 2012 means the collapse of civilization, Hankoff — who doesn’t buy it for a minute (though he can’t wait to see the movie) — is pleased to offer a solution.

     “I want everybody that believes that 2012 is going to happen to send me their stuff,” he says. “And if you get mad at me for saying that 2012 is totally insane, you can send me an apology on December 22, 2012 — which is a Saturday, by the way — because I’m still going to be here.”

     Geir: Heaven uses this movie to announce the end of times for now and Obama as the Antichrist
     The Revelation is happening now.
     All these people who do not see are signs too. A crow is a sign, even if it doesn’t know it or can express it like I do. 2012, the movie, is just a sign, saying: “It’s now !”
217. On November 17th, 2009 at 12:39 pm , Black Lion said...

     From the NY Times

     Presidential Bows, Revisited
     By DAVID E. SANGER

     The ongoing cable-and-blog dustup over whether President Obama somehow dishonored America’s image by bowing to Emperor Akihito of Japan the other day was reminiscent of another argument over the exact same issue – 20 years ago.

     It was a different president, of course: George H.W. Bush, who came to the issue with some pretty solid credentials: As a young man who was shot out of the sky by the Japanese. And it was a different moment: The funeral of Emperor Hirohito, Japan’s wartime leader, and father of the current Japanese emperor.

     Mr. Bush was even newer to the presidency at that moment than Mr. Obama is today. Barely a month in office, he traveled to Tokyo for Hirohito’s funeral, declaring it was the right way to honor a former enemy turned ally. It was the first imperial funeral in many decades, a huge state event. And naturally it poured rain on the guests; ladies in their finest kimonos and Sumo wrestlers alike sank into the mud.

     Then came the moment: When Mr. Bush approached the Emperor’s casket, he bowed deeply.

     Those of us who had lived in Japan thought nothing of it. That is how respect is shown in Japan. But the pre-cable pundits were screaming, and soon one of our colleagues, the late Gerald Boyd, asked Mr. Bush about it at a news conference.

     Mr. Bush danced around an answer for a moment, mentioning members of his squadron who never came home, and Gen. Douglas MacArthur’s decision to keep the emperor system, as a way of unifying the Japanese people. Then he said this:

     I’m representing the United States of America. And we’re talking about a friend, and we’re talking about an ally. We’re talking about a nation with whom we have constructive relationships. Sure, we got some problems, but that was all overriding — and respect for the Emperor. And remember back in World War II, if you’d have predicted that I would be here, because of the hard feeling and the symbolic nature of the problem back then of the former Emperor’s standing, I would have said, “No way.” But here we are, and time moves on; and there is a very good lesson for civilized countries in all of this.

     So did President Obama violate protocol? Well, yes, but not by bowing. He made the mistake of both shaking hands and bowing at the same time, a big breach of etiquette. The truth was that he was supposed to choose one or the other.
218. On November 17th, 2009 at 12:45 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE: all Obamatons (a subclass of scavenging Hyenas camped in American cemeteries) -

     Mane, Tekel, Fares, Impeachment…

     Your tumblin’ & contortin’ & huffin’ & puffin’ ain’t work – too late, Obama’s slipping, the Euros are sick of him, his rating here are worse than Bush’s at the same point in the career, all what’s he’s left as positive image comes from some pygmys with loinclothes and spears and from some (frenzied and tortured by doubts) Obamatons like you -

     Obama’s cynical delay in helping our troops in Afghanstan has been properly understood by this nation who now rightfully regard him as an, albeit simpatico, clearly gross adventurer who deep dislikes this country -

     Obama’s moving the terros’ trial to New York has amplified his slippage and in the end this public misery (which will last a few years) will nothing but further inflame (and rightfully so) the people’s indignation vis-a-vis Obama’s handling the job he was so generously allowed to have -

     The 2012 election will occur on a very incensed, anti-Obama/ anti-liberal background – and the birth certificate issue will explode -

     You Obamatons, your ratiocinating in these circumstances reminds me all those cartoons with ragged & disheveled shipwreck survivors arguing on a desintegrating raft about the right way to cross a street –

     Obama’s trajectory towards crash and disgrace is irreversible, regardless your hystericals -

     Heh-heh-heh – and Obama’s crash in ignominy will sure give you many more opportunities for yelling and punching around while your raft is sinking -

     Love it – keep arguing, demonstrating, ratiocinating – do it, after all the human folly’ spectacle needs the right performers -
219. On November 17th, 2009 at 1:02 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_eclipse_of_July_22,_2009

     2012, the movie’s about the Apocalypse, but the end of the world means Antichrist
     that’s what Bible says.
     and who got 666 777 9 drawn election day ?
     Obama
     When did a meteorite come ?
     for obama’s election the 21st century’s longest total solar eclipse happened (see Wikipedia: “Solar eclipse of July 22, 2009″)

     The end of the world is about upheaval in spirit not materially. Obama will fall and people will be astounded. That will be all. But that’s already a lot for most people. Staggering.

     The believers in the Mayan prophecy are starting to speak up. I don’t believe it myself. It just brings the real Apocalypse and no Hollywood film. Obama’s fall will be the real Apocalypse. It’s very soon because we’ll now spread his Marks of the Beast signs. People don’t know what to think now. And certainly they’ll not believe the liar Obama. His time is toast. He’s revealed now.
220. On November 17th, 2009 at 1:03 pm , jvn said...

     Miss -

     It looks right now like the GOP will nominate Huckabee, Romney or Palin in 2012.

     Oh yeah! An incumbent President with $600 million to spend against either one of two RINOs or Miss South Carolina?

     Bring it on!
221. On November 17th, 2009 at 1:09 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Bob Strauss:

     sam, Feelings are not hurt,

     Then why all the crying? Why not just defend your argument?

     Oh… I forgot…. you can’t. The “story” on Hannity was BS and the memo remains the authoritative source on KSM’s waterboarding.

     Sucks to be you, I guess.
222. On November 17th, 2009 at 1:13 pm , Observer said...

     I am sorry for the right wing types, including Pat Buchanon, who clearly don’t understand the basic principle of war: there has to be a country to make war against, otherwise it’s not a war.

     Well, then, you just tell them that!
223. On November 17th, 2009 at 1:21 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Gerhardt:

     When did a meteorite come ?

     Every day. In fact, there are about 230 of them that hit the earth everyday.

     That works out to about one every six minutes.
224. On November 17th, 2009 at 1:49 pm , bystander said...

     Geir

     Please advise when this apocalypse is coming – so that we can all laugh at you when it doesn’t. Actually I’m laughing now, although I must admit it is uncharitable to laugh at the afflicted.
225. On November 17th, 2009 at 2:10 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE jvn:

     [...] Oh yeah! An incumbent President with $600 million to spend against either one of two RINOs or Miss South Carolina? Bring it on!
     [...]

     Jvn, Cassandra be thy name – eerie how you brought exactly the issue that will doom Obama as proof of his advantage and superiority, that is his financing scheme.

     Obama cannot be demolished by challenging his biographical blackholes in courts – judge Carter showed well that he is not willing to do so, and any other judge in the country will do the same -

     Yet Obama can be demolished by challenging him as a scamer, by challenging him for running an electoral funding operation fully aware that he is not eligible for that job –

     Standing? Not legitimate quarrel with him? I am not harmed?
     Don’t say that, I darn am – I spent $1000 dollars on him, but now I am very suspicious of what he’s doing, and I need to know WHETHER THE MAN MAN WHO TOOK MY MONEY DIDN”T DO THAT UNDER FALSE PRETENSE!

     Remember, Al Capone was taken down by accountants, not by some high profile criminal cases -

     And the beauty of this situation is that instead of having only Obama in the cage, we’ll get the entire team that was engaged in the electoral operation with him as well – you know those Italian photos with forty guys or so in a large cage…

     Heh-heh-heh – Obama, Axel, Valerie, Rahm, Ploufe… everybody knew that he was ineligible, but got into the fundrising scheme -

     Jvn, I congratulate you for (unwillingly, yet accurately) announcing the lines of Obama’s denuement -
226. On November 17th, 2009 at 3:03 pm , jvn said...

     Miss -

     Like I said…

     Bring it on!
227. On November 17th, 2009 at 3:16 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Mis:

     If you want to sound smart by using big words, perhaps you should learn how to spell them.

     It’s not that hard to look up “denouement”.
228. On November 17th, 2009 at 3:29 pm , qwertyman said...

     Mis:

     If you want to sound smart by using big words, perhaps you should learn how to spell them.

     If you want to have a fun time, take a look any time mis says something completely insane or factually incorrect and run it through a google search. Even odds will say that the most of the results are is mis spreading those exact same words through right wing blog after right wing blog.

     For example, if you run a google search for a claim that Obama wrote a certain thesis in his book, contradicted by his other book, you will find the only person on the entire internet making that claim is mis. One of the very few people on the entire internet who thinks that Sartre wrote a play called the Prisoner of Altona is mis – most of the rest of the internet knows that the play is called the Condemned of Altona (don’t bother reading it, it’s not all that good).
229. On November 17th, 2009 at 3:36 pm , tminu said...

     The greater evil is not misspelling dénouement, it’s in the bots advocating the deaths of more Americans by exposing military secrets in an unnecessary and unwarranted civilian trial for foreigners.

     I noticed none of you dumbots (Sise, Lion, Sam, Quer) have any comment about Obama’s new “Emily Post” Afnamistan suicidal Rules of Engagement? Which proves you all are simply enemies of America down to the very core, wishing death upon its civilians and its military.

     Be gone!
     _______

     Just listen to the things Obama has come up with in his Afnamistan as reported by the Washington Times.

     Rule 1: American Soldiers can not surprise terrorists with searches. The same terrorists in Obama’s Afnamistan can not have their sleep disturbed, so there will be no night searches.
     Warfare therefore according to Obama can only take place during the daylight hours.

     Rule 2: When terrorists are going to be searched, the terrorists in Obama’s friends in al Qaeda and the TalEEban must first be warned by an appropriate amount of time so as not to inconvenience the terrorists.

     Rule 3: United States Soldiers can not conduct any military actual warfare searches against terrorists unless they are escorted and chaperoned by Afghanistan Army or Afghanistan Police forces, so as not to offend the fraudulent government of Afnamistan or the terrorists.

     Rule 4: United States Soldiers must wait with weapons dropped in an nonthreatening position until terrorists are given the first live burst of shots at US Soldiers.

     Rule 5: When terrorists are using human hostages as shields, hiding in villages or running into camps to avoid being killed by United States Soldiers, United States Soldiers can not return fire nor engage the terrorists when Afghanistan civilians are present.
     United States Soldiers must first evacuate the local population in daylight before engaging the terrorists.

     Rule 6: Only female United States Soldiers, who are not allowed in actual combat situations can search female terrorists.

     Rule 7: United States Soldiers can only fire at terrorists while placing mines, IED’s etc… to murder United States Soldiers. If the terrorists have already laid the IED’s, they can not be fired upon as they leave the area…….
     According to that rule, US Soldiers seeing armed terrorists must approach them with weapons dropped, notify them in a friendly manner they are under arrest, wait to be shot and take casualties first, and only then can they return fire, allow in their bomb explosive experts to be blown up trying to defuse the IED, and send home more dead US Soldiers.
     So the last 5 rules in Obama’s Afnamistan 12 Step Program in his addiction of war are: Rule 8-12: Americans die.

     Oh, and don’t forget his order for US soldiers not to touch the poppies, for that would interfere with the Taleeban’s narcotraffic money flow. It’s similar to how Obama forced Zelaya the coke brick drug mule for Ortega and Chavez back in to power even though he was removed per Honduran constitution. Obama is the world’s biggest drug dealer, and our Executive Terrorist.
230. On November 17th, 2009 at 3:49 pm , qwertyman said...

     I noticed none of you dumbots (Sise, Lion, Sam, Quer) have any comment about Obama’s new “Emily Post” Afnamistan suicidal Rules of Engagement?

     That’s because you provide no link and no context for any of these rules. The rules you claim Obama has brought forth are not actual rules, but your interpretation of those rules. I take it as seriously as I do Geir’s mindless rants.

     That and you managed to spell Afghanistan wrong five times.

     However, doing your homework for you, it looks like this is what you’re talking about:

     http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2009-01/2009-01-14-voa58.cfm?moddate=2009-01-14

     This happened before Obama was sworn into office and done with an eye towards winning the war. We need the support of the local population, and offending them by having males bodily searching women unless necessary is something we should generally try to avoid.
231. On November 17th, 2009 at 3:50 pm , Black Lion said...

     tminu says:
     November 17, 2009 at 3:36 pm
     The greater evil is not misspelling dénouement, it’s in the bots advocating the deaths of more Americans by exposing military secrets in an unnecessary and unwarranted civilian trial for foreigners.

     I noticed none of you dumbots (Sise, Lion, Sam, Quer) have any comment about Obama’s new “Emily Post” Afnamistan suicidal Rules of Engagement? Which proves you all are simply enemies of America down to the very core, wishing death upon its civilians and its military.

     Be gone!
     __________________________________________________________________
     Why should we address it? You never provided any proof or source of where it came from or showed that it was something actually written by a member of the Obama Administration. As usual you make claims and don’t provide any information so that it can be proven or not. Kind of like your wild accusations that trying these terrorists will somehow reveal national secrets. No source. That was the same line of crap Bush/Cheney used to support keeping all of the so called terrorists/criminals in Gitmo without a trial. Nice fearmongering but as usual no proof. Without proof, your rants are like the innane and mentally disturbed rantings of Geir Smith, not worth the time to address….
232. On November 17th, 2009 at 4:38 pm , Observer said...

     Rather than chance being charged with “war crimes” by the feckless leader due to his “initiatives” and his jihad buddies embedded within our military our guys have to suffer this:

     http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/75036.html
233. On November 17th, 2009 at 4:42 pm , Observer said...

     SanDiegoSam says:
     November 17, 2009 at 3:16 pm
     Mis:

     If you want to sound smart by using big words, perhaps you should learn how to spell them.

     It’s not that hard to look up “denouement”.

     Not as alarming as your “impeccable” leader’s “57 states”.
234. On November 17th, 2009 at 6:37 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Observer:

     Who said anything about being alarmed?
235. On November 17th, 2009 at 6:41 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     tminu:

     The greater evil is not misspelling dénouement, it’s in the bots advocating the deaths of more Americans by exposing military secrets in an unnecessary and unwarranted civilian trial for foreigners.

     So much for your last shred of pretense that you actually have any affection for the Constitution. I am actually quite impressed how long you kept up the facade. It must have been exhausting.

     I noticed none of you dumbots (Sise, Lion, Sam, Quer) have any comment about Obama’s new “Emily Post” Afnamistan suicidal Rules of Engagement?

     Which rules are those? They are certainly not the fake ones you provided in your post.
236. On November 17th, 2009 at 6:52 pm , tminu said...

     This is for the enemies of America bot idiots:
     http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/16/us-troops-battle-taliban-afghan-rules//print/
     • No night or surprise searches.

     • Villagers have to be warned prior to searches.

     • ANA or ANP must accompany U.S. units on searches.

     • U.S. soldiers may not fire at the enemy unless the enemy is preparing to fire first.

     • U.S. forces cannot engage the enemy if civilians are present.

     • Only women can search women.

     • Troops can fire at an insurgent if they catch him placing an IED but not if insurgents are walking away from an area where explosives have been laid.

     AND THIS IS NOT THE FIRST SET OF SUICIDAL RULES OF ENGAGEMENT THAT OBAMA HAS FORCED ON US SOLDIERS CAUSING THEM TO BE SLAUGHTERED

     Obama’s Rules Of Engagement
     Don’t shoot back!

     Don’t pick the poppies!

     And don’t bother the women and men in burqas!

     These are the new rules of engagement for leathernecks in Afghanistan.

     Sound incredible? They’re true.

     Welcome to the modern Marine Corps under Barack Hussein Obama.

     On July 1, the U.S. military initiated Operation Khanjar or “Strike of the Sword,” an invasion of the Helmand Province by 4,000 Marines and 650 Afghan soldiers.

     “Strike of the Sword” represents the first military operation to be ordered by Obama. The purpose of the campaign is to flush out Taliban operatives from southern Afghanistan in order to safeguard the re-election of Afghan President Hamid Karzai on August 20. The military initiative is being conducted by the insistence of Kharzai, who fears that a strong Taliban presence will produce unfavorable results for him on election-day.

     To accomplish this objective, Obama remains determined to deploy 68,000 additional U.S. troops to southern Afghanistan within the next six weeks.

     But the Marines, thanks to Obama, are conducting this mission with their hands tied.

     The first order from America’s new faux-commander is that the Marines must not return enemy fire for fear of killing an Afghan non-combatant.

     ABC Correspondent Mike Boettcher, who is embedded with Golf Company, reports that the young Marines, when ambushed by Taliban forces with automatic weapons, were ordered to shoulder their rifles. Their command, Boettcher writes, warned them that “one civilian casualty could negate the No. 1 objective of this operation — winning the trust and respect of the farmers of the Helmand River Valley.”

     http://thelastcrusade.org/2009/07/09/don%E2%80%99t-shoot-back-at-taliban-terrorists/
     http://funzon123.blogspot.com/2009/06/shift-needed-in-afghan-combat.html

     The TAL-EE-BAHN love Obama!
     http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/ObamaTalibanTruck.png
237. On November 17th, 2009 at 6:59 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     San Diego Sam, don’t you believe in the Bible ? (I don’t blame you I don’t.)

     The Bible says the Antichrist is announced by a meteorite and many signs

     a good sign is the deluge of the film 2012 swamping the world in pure Hollywood tsunami-style

     the end of times groups have gone main stream

     but we’ve got more than they got

     666 777 9

     also the meteorite I’m talking about is not the ones you mention
     every six minutes

     this is the 21st century’s biggest
     wiki speaks

     >The solar eclipse of 22 July 2009 was the longest total solar eclipse during the 21st century, not to be surpassed until June 2132.[1] It lasted a maximum of 6 minutes and 39 seconds off the coast of Southeast Asia,[2] causing tourist interest in eastern China, Japan, India and Nepal.[2][3][4]

     This was the second in the series of three eclipses in a one-month period, with two minor penumbral lunar eclipses, first on July 7 and last on August 6.

     A partial eclipse was seen within the broad path of the Moon’s penumbra, including most of Southeast Asia (all of India and China) and north-eastern Oceania.

     The total eclipse was visible from a narrow corridor through northern Maldives, northern Pakistan, northern India, eastern Nepal, northern Bangladesh, Bhutan, northern Philippines, the northern tip of Myanmar, central China and the Pacific Ocean, including the Ryukyu Islands, Marshall Islands and Kiribati.

     Totality was visible in many large cities, including Surat, Vadodara, Bhopal, Varanasi, Patna, Gaya, Dinajpur, Siliguri, Guwahati, Tawang in India and Chengdu, Nanchong, Chongqing, Yichang, Jingzhou, Wuhan, Huanggang, Hefei, Hangzhou, Wuxi, Huzhou, Suzhou, Jiaxing, Ningbo, Shanghai, Chapai Nawabganj as well as over the Three Gorges Dam in China.[5][6] According to NASA, the Japanese island Kitaio Jima was predicted to have the best viewing conditions [7][8] featuring both longer viewing time (being the closest point of land to the point of greatest eclipse) and lower cloud cover statistics than all of continental Asia.

     Crowds gather on the ghats for the eclipse in Varanasi, India

     Thousands of pilgrims gathered on the banks of the Ganges River in Varanasi, India to experience the eclipse as a religious or spiritual event. Some people expected that there would be a relationship, either positive or negative, between their health and the occurrence of the eclipse.[9]

     Indian scientists observed the solar eclipse from an Indian Air Force plane.[10]

     The Chinese government used the opportunity to provide scientific education and to dispel any superstition. Observers in Japan were excited by the prospect of experiencing the first eclipse in 46 years, but found the experience dampened by cloudy skies obscuring the view.[11]

     Thousands of people of Bangladesh witnessed the longest total solar eclipses of the 21st century on wednesday, 22 July, 2009 defying rain and a heavily overcast sky. Before this a “total solar eclipse observation committee” was formed with Bishwa Sahitya Kendra, Liberation War Museum, Chhayanaut’s educational initiative Nalanda, Samannito Shikkha-Sangskriti, Bangladesh Nature Study and Conservation Union, and Cosmic Culture to observe the eclipse. Science initiative Discussion Project coordinated the committee, which set up the main observation camp at Madhupara village and another at the South Plaza of Jatiya Sangsad Bhaban in Dhaka. With the help of BRB Cable Industries Ltd, the committee also set up observation camps at Bell’s Park in Barisal, Akimuddin Gronthagar in Chapai Nawabganj, science and technology university campuses in Syedpur and Gazipur, Jahangirnagar University and Araj Ali Matubbar library at Dania in Dhaka.[12][13][14] Akimudin Gronthagar arranged three camps to observe century’s one and only solar eclipse of July 22, 2009. 99.56% totality was observed from main camp at Kamat Maath, Binodpur, Chapai Nawabganj. Totality started at 07:57:41BDT and end 3 minutes 44 seconds later. The other two camps were set up at Poddar Paar in Rajshahi and at railway’s Dhar in Uttar, Dhaka.

     These identically scaled photos compare the apparent diameter of the full moon (near apogee) to the nearly new moon (visible by earthshine) on the day before the solar eclipse near lunar perigee.

     This solar eclipse was the longest total solar eclipse to occur in the 21st century, and will not be surpassed in duration until 13 June 2132. Totality lasted for up to 6 minutes and 39 seconds, with the maximum eclipse occurring in the ocean at 02:35:21 UTC about 100 km south of the Bonin Islands, southeast of Japan. The uninhabited North Iwo Jima island was the landmass with totality time closest to maximum, while the closest inhabited point was Akusekijima, where the eclipse lasted 6 minutes and 26 seconds.[15]

     The cruise ship Costa Classica was chartered specifically to view this eclipse and by viewing the eclipse at the point of maximum duration and cruising along the centerline during the event, duration was extended to 6 minutes, 42 seconds.[16]

     The eclipse was part of Saros series 136, as was the solar eclipse of July 11, 1991, which was slightly longer, lasting up to 6 minutes 53 seconds (previous eclipses of the same saros series on June 30, 1973 and June 20, 1955, were longer, lasting 7 min 04 and 7 min 08, respectively). The next event from this series will be on August 2, 2027.[17] The exceptional duration was a result of the Moon being near perigee, with the apparent diameter of the Moon 8% larger than the Sun (magnitude 1.080) and the Earth being near aphelion[18] where the Sun appeared slightly smaller.

     In contrast the annular solar eclipse of January 26, 2009 occurred near lunar apogee and 7% smaller apparent diameter to the sun. And the next solar eclipse of January 15, 2010 will also be annular, with the Moon 8.1% smaller than the Sun.

     The Terrain Mapping Camera in the Chandrayaan-1 lunar mission was used to image the earth during the eclipse.[19]

     It was also observed by the Japanese geostationary satellite MTSAT:[20]
     July 22, 2009 Total Eclipse 8,30 a.m. Taiwan.jpg
     12:30 UT (pre-eclipse) July 22, 2009 Total Eclipse 9,30 a.m. Taiwan.
     1:30 UT Solar eclipse July 2009 NOAA.>>

     Obama’s the Antichrist that’s for sure
238. On November 17th, 2009 at 7:09 pm , tminu said...

     What Barack Obama and Eric Holder have engaged in is a Marxist globalist gutting of the American security force so it will never rise again against this international crime mafia.
     This is about Obama and Holder skeletons being dug up, and Obama and Holder attempting to murder the CIA, Department of Defense Intelligence, the Bush intelligence assets and the CIA before they start exposing the crimes against humanity bone pile of Obama and Holder.
     Remember fully that Eric Holder is the globalist Marxist stooge who pushed Bill Clinton into pardoning the FALN terrorists. Remember it was Eric Holder who pushed Bill Clinton into the midnight pardon of Marc Rich, the international money launderer who was funnelling Sadam Hussein bribes to every socialist western government, including Barack Obama.
     Nadhmi Auchi was Saddam Hussein’s bagman and Auchi is the person who bankrolled Obama’s first Senate campaign illegally out of a Latin American loan with Auchi’s wife as a front, and Auchi is the one bought Obama his first mansion in Chicago, with Obama’s name not even on it with slum lord Tony Rezko.
     Obama and Holder are the front men for are the international criminal mafia run out of Europe which funnels American oil dumped into OPEC at half a trillion dollars a year back into European banks. This has been occurring since Kissinger and Rockefeller brought this about in the early 1970′s and is why America has now been bled dry.
     It’s a known fact that there are people who have the evidence on the money flow out of America and into Europe over the Obama 2008 implosion. If Rush Limbaugh is hinting at this time and again, the cowboys know very well what has happened in the Obama theft of the United States savings of American Citizens.
     The DOD is under fire for all of the information they uncovered about Saddam.
     The Bush family is now having an all out war waged against it by Obama and the cartel to punish them for removing Saddam Hussein.
     That is what Obama placing New York City in the terrorist target sights is all about.
     OBAMA FULLY INTENDS TO EXPOSE THE ENTIRE CIA SECURITY OPERATIONS, INFORM TERRORISTS HOW TO RUN THEIR RUSSIAN, CHINESE, AND IRANIAN PROXY WAR AGAINST AMERICA AND TO GUT THE DOD LITERALLY BY NOT ALLOWING US SOLDIERS TO FIRE UPON TERRORIST UNTIL TERRORISTS FIRST MURDER THEM.
     That is Obama war.
     Obama and Holder are placing the United States of George Washington, John Kennedy and Ronald Reagan on trial. These are not Americans, but American hating global citizens whose main measure in life is the advancement of their European benefactors government to rule the world with the murder of the United States.
     That is what this trial is about and what New York is being exposed to, as this is not a terrorist war, but MAKING AMERICA OUT TO BE A TERRORIST STATE ALL THE WHILE AMERICA IS DISALLOWED BY OBAMA TO CALL THE TERRORISTS A TERRORIST.
     Think about the sadistic nature of Obama and Holder deliberately conducting this circus in New York to make New Yorkers who suffered this heinous attack now to have their SOULS RAPED YET AGAIN in having to provide food, shelter, security and defense to the very terrorists who Obama will not allow to be termed terrorists, but these same terrorists will be allowed to CALL NEW YORKERS TERRORISTS.
     Quite the vote Americans cast in 2008 for the Marxist Barack Hussein Obama.
     Obama IS PUTTING AMERICA ON TERRORIST TRIAL AND THE TERRORISTS WILL BE PORTRAYED AS THE INNOCENT VICTIMS as we all know in American Law, these non Americans now given American rights by Obama ARE INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
     Bet you missed that too huh children.
     OBAMA JUST DECLARED THE TERRORISTS TO BE INNOCENT.
     There is not going to be any happy ending in this as the terrorists are going to be international heroes and this is designed to bring about more Nidal Hasan attacks inside America, which Obama can then crack down more on Americans.
     There is evidence in all of this at FBI, CIA, the bank regulators and Secret Service as Obama’s 300 million dollar counterfeit operation of illegal campaign donations from Middle Eastern terrorists could put him into prison for a thousand years.
     Perhaps this is the time that the cowboys are just going to duck and let Obama fillet Americans until they scream and rise up to flush this traitorous cancer from America once and for all.
     http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/
239. On November 17th, 2009 at 7:16 pm , tminu said...

     his is for the enemies of America bot idiots:

     • No night or surprise searches.

     • Villagers have to be warned prior to searches.

     • ANA or ANP must accompany U.S. units on searches.

     • U.S. soldiers may not fire at the enemy unless the enemy is preparing to fire first.

     • U.S. forces cannot engage the enemy if civilians are present.

     • Only women can search women.

     • Troops can fire at an insurgent if they catch him placing an IED but not if insurgents are walking away from an area where explosives have been laid.

     AND THIS IS NOT THE FIRST SET OF SUICIDAL RULES OF ENGAGEMENT THAT OBAMA HAS FORCED ON US SOLDIERS CAUSING THEM TO BE SLAUGHTERED

     Obama’s Rules Of Engagement
     Don’t shoot back!

     Don’t pick the poppies!

     And don’t bother the women and men in burqas!

     These are the new rules of engagement for leathernecks in Afghanistan.

     Sound incredible? They’re true.

     Welcome to the modern Marine Corps under Barack Hussein Obama.

     On July 1, the U.S. military initiated Operation Khanjar or “Strike of the Sword,” an invasion of the Helmand Province by 4,000 Marines and 650 Afghan soldiers.

     “Strike of the Sword” represents the first military operation to be ordered by Obama. The purpose of the campaign is to flush out Taliban operatives from southern Afghanistan in order to safeguard the re-election of Afghan President Hamid Karzai on August 20. The military initiative is being conducted by the insistence of Kharzai, who fears that a strong Taliban presence will produce unfavorable results for him on election-day.

     To accomplish this objective, Obama remains determined to deploy 68,000 additional U.S. troops to southern Afghanistan within the next six weeks.

     But the Marines, thanks to Obama, are conducting this mission with their hands tied.

     The first order from America’s new faux-commander is that the Marines must not return enemy fire for fear of killing an Afghan non-combatant.

     ABC Correspondent Mike Boettcher, who is embedded with Golf Company, reports that the young Marines, when ambushed by Taliban forces with automatic weapons, were ordered to shoulder their rifles. Their command, Boettcher writes, warned them that “one civilian casualty could negate the No. 1 objective of this operation — winning the trust and respect of the farmers of the Helmand River Valley.”
240. On November 17th, 2009 at 7:17 pm , tminu said...

     http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/16/us-troops-battle-taliban-afghan-rules//print/
     http://www.thelastcrusade.org/2009/07/09/don%E2%80%99t-shoot-back-at-taliban-terrorists/
     http://www.funzon123.blogspot.com/2009/06/shift-needed-in-afghan-combat.html

     The TAL-EE-BAHN love Obama!
     http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/ObamaTalibanTruck.png
241. On November 17th, 2009 at 7:37 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE SanDiegoSam/ Qwerty:

     [...] It’s not that hard to look up “denouement”. [...]
     Typo, fools, typo – and what a miserable lot you are, trying to make from a typo a major flaw in a demonstration or a statement!
     Now eat the bellow sentence (your pal Jvn):

     [...] I am sorry for the right wing types, including Pat “BUCHANON”, who [...]
     That’s a typo, and while I agree or not with Jvn, I don’t use that “O” in Buchanon as proof of Jvn’ (hypothetical) ignorance –
     So eat it, bitter Obamatons -

     Now back to Qwerty’s resplendent wisdom:
     [...] One of the very few people on the entire internet who thinks that Sartre wrote a play called the Prisoner of Altona is mis – most of the rest of the internet knows that the play is called the Condemned of Altona (don’t bother reading it, it’s not all that good). [...]

     Fool, while the English standard translation of the play’s title is “Condemned of Altona”, its title in original is “Les Séquestrés d’Altona” (no, Qwerty, this is not Austrian, is French, and you can tell this Michelle, too!), and my rendering of the French “Sequestres” as “prisoner” is better than “condemned” –
     And this is the reason for my using “Prisoner” instead of “Condemned” –

     As far the worthiness of that play (or film) I can’t see how some tiny minds like yours can grasp it –

     But I have a play (and the ensuing film) that mighty satisfies the object of our debate, dba Obama’s fraudulence and illegitimacy – so rent the “Six Degrees Of Separation”, guys, dba Obama sure has studied it in order to prepare his impersonation act – heh-heh-heh -

     Son of Sydney Poitier – heh-heh-heh – I can see you weeping –
     Why don’t you write a screenplay “Dba Obama: The Real Story – The Return Of Sydney Poitier’s Real Sun” – heh-heh-heh -
     Or try the “When The Manchurian Candidate Meets The Truman Show” -

     Heh-heh-heh – you’re so silly, no matter what you do, it returns and explodes in your hands –
     Heh-heh-heh – a Gary Larson cartoon would nicely render you – heh-heh-heh – ragged, haggard, arguing on a desintegrating raft -
242. On November 17th, 2009 at 7:39 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     How many times will you get the Bible prophecy of the Marks of the Beast and a meteorite designate the same guy ?

     He got 666 777 9 drawn on election day in his own state only nowhere else, and those are the Mark of the Beast. That’s Money. Don’t take his Marks of the Beast: his money.

     He got that longest total solar eclipse of the century right now in July.

     He’s the Antichrist no doubt.

     The film swamping the box-office 2012, spreading the end of times message is also heaven speaking through strange ways.

     Believe or burn.

     It’s HIT
243. On November 17th, 2009 at 8:06 pm , qwertyman said...

     Fool, while the English standard translation of the play’s title is “Condemned of Altona”, its title in original is “Les Séquestrés d’Altona” (no, Qwerty, this is not Austrian, is French, and you can tell this Michelle, too!), and my rendering of the French “Sequestres” as “prisoner” is better than “condemned” –
     And this is the reason for my using “Prisoner” instead of “Condemned” –

     Frantz is not a prisoner – he’s in Altona in his home, condemned (to the reader) by his own thoughts, and gradually we find out more and more about him. Sequestres translates as both, and Sartre himself preferred Condemned, so I think that’s what I’ll go with.

     A google search for “Prisoner of Altona” reveals 5 hits, 2 of which are your comments on blogs.
     A google search for “Condemned of Altona” reveals a quarter million hits.

     Beyond that, you’ve got nothing except baseless ad hom attacks.
244. On November 17th, 2009 at 8:10 pm , Black Lion said...

     tminu says:
     November 17, 2009 at 7:09 pm

     Perhaps this is the time that the cowboys are just going to duck and let Obama fillet Americans until they scream and rise up to flush this traitorous cancer from America once and for all.

     http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/
     ________________________________________________________________________
     Citing the Lame Cherry blog? Are you kidding me? That wingnut? I think you were better off not sourcing things if you are going to link to that idiot and make it seem like that is actual news. He posts trash and garbarge.
245. On November 17th, 2009 at 8:48 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE Qwerty:

     [...] and Sartre himself preferred Condemned, so I think that’s what I’ll go with. [...]

     Had Sartre preferred “Condemned”, he would have named the play “Le Condamne d’Altona” –

     Wiggle, wiggle -
246. On November 17th, 2009 at 9:30 pm , Phil said...

     GeorgetownJD,

     Why all the worry about allowing KSM the rights to a trial before a jury, to assistance of counsel, to confront witnesses, to decline to testify if his testimony would tend to incriminate himself, etc.? Are you afraid that giving him a fair trial in a civilian court will result in an acquittal? That appears to be your inference.

     You’re operating under the premise that KSM should be presumed innocent when, in fact, he is as admittedly far from being innocent as the devil himself from being insatiably evil. Since I categorically reject that premise, there is no point in my further answering these questions, because of what I think is your faulty premise.

     All persons tried for crimes on American soil have these constitutional rights. Constitutional rights are not reserved solely for citizens. Adherence to the principles of fair trial is not going to magically transform illegal immigrants into permanent resident aliens.

     Despite the fact that I don’t think you’re completely factual in your understanding of American history RE: how we’ve treated “enemy combatants” (read: the enemy) in the past, I don’t think that anyone is an American, per se, unless they’re either born here (fancy that) or they’ve naturalized.

     In other words, I see absolutely no reason why anyone who is not an American citizen must absolutely be bound to the Constitution anyway.

     -Phil
247. On November 17th, 2009 at 10:46 pm , keokuk said...

     You’re operating under the premise that KSM should be presumed innocent when, in fact, he is as admittedly far from being innocent as the devil himself from being insatiably evil. Since I categorically reject that premise, there is no point in my further answering these questions, because of what I think is your faulty premise.

     I’m rather confused by this statement. KSM would be entitled to a presumption of innocence in a military tribunal as well, which I understand to be the alternative that you favor. In fact, numerous detainees have been found not guilty by such commissions. Are you suggesting that you would disfavor their use as well? If so, then what alternative are you suggesting?
248. On November 17th, 2009 at 10:55 pm , Observer said...

     SanDiegoSam says:
     November 17, 2009 at 6:37 pm
     Observer:

     Who said anything about being alarmed?

     Me.
249. On November 17th, 2009 at 10:59 pm , Black Lion said...

     tminu says:
     November 17, 2009 at 7:16 pm
     his is for the enemies of America bot idiots:
     ______________________________________________________________________
     You do realize that repeating things a bunch of times doesn’t make it true. The rules were created by the George Bush administration so you must be blaming him and Cheney for the current rules of engagement.

     “NATO says it has tightened its rules of engagement in Afghanistan in an attempt to minimize civilian causalities and reduce tensions.”

     “This new rule went into effect last month but was only made public Wednesday.”

     This article is from January of 2009. The rules went into effect in December of 2008. Even though the offensive was order by President Obama the rules of engagement were set before he was President. So I guess the idiot who is preventing the troops from effectively fighting back would be George Bush or 5 deferrment Dick Cheney.

     http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/2009-01/2009-01-14-voa58.cfm?moddate=2009-01-14

     And citing the “Obama File” and those other President hating sites are hardly unbiased reporting. But it does explain why you are currently wrong and off base with a lot of your statements and shows us your point of view.
250. On November 17th, 2009 at 11:00 pm , Phil said...

     keokuk,

     I’m rather confused by this statement. KSM would be entitled to a presumption of innocence in a military tribunal as well, which I understand to be the alternative that you favor. In fact, numerous detainees have been found not guilty by such commissions. Are you suggesting that you would disfavor their use as well? If so, then what alternative are you suggesting?

     Just because I think the guy’s as guilty as sin (to say the least) doesn’t mean that I don’t think there shouldn’t be any justice on the issue. However, at least in a military tribunal setting the federal government doesn’t have to go about flashing all sorts of intelligence to the rest of the world as a means of justifying its case against the man.

     -Phil
251. On November 18th, 2009 at 1:02 am , St. Lucie said...

     Explain why KSM is entitled to be tried with the same rights as a citizen of the United States has; a trial by a jury of his peers. His peers? Who would they be? Because we are a nation of laws guided by the Constitution? Explain how KSM’s rights would fall under our Constitution. Do not use the example of Zacarias Moussaoui who was picked up just before 9-11 happened. On August 16, 2001, Moussaoui was arrested by Harry Samit of the FBI and INS agents in Minnesota and charged with an immigration violation.
252. On November 18th, 2009 at 8:39 am , siseduermapierda said...

     St. Lucie says:
     November 18, 2009 at 1:02 am
     *Explain how KSM’s rights would fall under our Constitution.*

     Article III, Sec 2
     ” The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where said crimes shall have been committed.”

     The attacks of 9/11 were crimes and occurred in New York City. Obama is following the Constitution by trying the accused criminals in NYC. The Constitution refers to “persons” not “citizens” when it talks about due process in the 4th, 5th, 6th and 14th amendment. There are many examples in our courts where due process is given to non-citizens every single day besides Moussaui and Richard Reid and Sheik Rahmed. No one taught you in school that the rights of due process extended by our Constitution applied only to citizens. Where do you get these misinformed ideas?
253. On November 18th, 2009 at 9:06 am , Black Lion said...

     Phil says:
     November 17, 2009 at 11:00 pm

     Just because I think the guy’s as guilty as sin (to say the least) doesn’t mean that I don’t think there shouldn’t be any justice on the issue. However, at least in a military tribunal setting the federal government doesn’t have to go about flashing all sorts of intelligence to the rest of the world as a means of justifying its case against the man.

     -Phil
     ____________________________________________________________________
     Phil, I agree with you 100% about this guys guilt. But I don’t think you are giving our justice system its due credit. As I posted earlier we have successfully prosecuted other individuals just like KSM and his scumbag cohorts. People seem to forget that if there is sensitive intelligence the court can be closed during that testimony. Also the trial judge may decide to only allow limited outside access to the other parts of the trial that don’t involve sensitive information to quell fears about KSM and the others using the trial as some sort of platform. I think that the Obama administration picked these individuals to try in open court because they probably have the best evidence against them. Somehow I think that if there was a chance that the case was weak, these guys would not see the light of day. There is no way the administration would take that risk.
254. On November 18th, 2009 at 10:43 am , Roderick said...

     Good morning everybody and thanks for tuning in. Just thought I would post this link if nobody else has of yet. http://www.cc9009.us Go to this site pass out the good word and sign on. Thanks for tuning in and this message was not brought to you by cnn the communist news network that mocks a police officer for doing his job in detaining illegal aliens at the Mexican border.
255. On November 18th, 2009 at 11:04 am , Observer said...

     The right argument:

     KRAUTHAMMER: But his logic is totally reversed. A declared war makes it legal under international law. And if you catch a guy, he has all kinds of rights.

     What this is — is a war that is undeclared. They don’t wear uniforms. And they attack civilians. So that makes them illegal combatants. They had no rights, no rights under Geneva, no rights under international law, and certainly no rights under the American constitution. So the argument is strengthened if it’s an undeclared war, because it’s an attack of war that is illegal under all the rules of war.

     ….what Obama has done, Mr. Hope and change, is to offer al Qaeda act 2. The memory of 9/11 is fading. And now what’s going to happen is they’re going to get the biggest propaganda stage.

     The attack on 9/11 was the silent movie. Now KSM is going to have a director’s cut in which he does the narration. He’s going to explain why and how. And it will be the greatest spectacle in terror history. It is absolutely inconceivable why this administration would have allowed all this to happen.
256. On November 18th, 2009 at 11:22 am , qwertyman said...

     They had no rights, no rights under Geneva, no rights under international law, and certainly no rights under the American constitution.

     Incorrect, the Fourth Geneva convention applies to conflicts in which one side is not a party. The U.S. is bound, even during times of war, to the terms of the Convention Against Torture. The equal protections of the 14th Amendment apply to all persons, not just citizens.

     Do I feel sorry for KSM that his rights were violated? No. I just believe that our country should be better. We should be the ones willing to play by the rules, especially when so strongly tempted to do otherwise. Torture as a means of intelligence gathering is very suspect at best. John McCain reacted to his torturers by telling him the names of players from the Green Bay Packers. And it crosses a line that should never be crossed.
257. On November 18th, 2009 at 11:28 am , Observer said...

     Define your terms. “Conflicts” is not the question here.
258. On November 18th, 2009 at 11:29 am , Black Lion said...

     The idiotic Krauthammer askes in Observer’s post “It is absolutely inconceivable why this administration would have allowed all this to happen.” That is an interesting question. Maybe it happened because the last Administration left almost 1000 “detainees” in Gitmo with no road map of how to resolve the issue. Maybe Krauthammer should have asked his buddy 5 deferrment Dick Cheney what was the Administration’s plan on dealing with these “individuals”? I mean in 8 years only 3 guys were tried in military tribunals? Come on. At that rate there would be people in Gitmo in the year 2030. Just like with a lot of other issues the former Administration came up with ideas without any sort of conclusion or exit strategy. And left it to the current administration to clean up after it.

     Jonathan Hafetz, director of the Litigation, Liberty and National Security Project at the Brennan Center for Justice, writes, Guantánamo: Justice as Paradox:

     “Attorney General Eric Holder’s announcement Friday that Khaled Sheikh Mohammed and four other individuals allegedly responsible for the 9/11 attacks would be brought to trial in federal court takes an important—if long overdue—step towards restoring the rule of law. No longer are these men “high value detainees,” a label invented out of whole cloth to sanction their previous disappearance into a secret CIA prison and torture. After resurfacing at Guantánamo in September 2006, they are now, finally, defendants in the U.S. criminal justice system, which has shown repeatedly that it is well-equipped to handle terrorism cases while protecting legitimate national security concerns. This was the result advocated by the ACLU’s John Adams Project, and it is a welcome one.

     But at Guantánamo, the road to justice remains the road less traveled. Holder also announced that five other Guantánamo detainees would be referred back to military commissions, including Abd al-Rahim al-Nashiri, the alleged mastermind of the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole. So, those accused of the 9/11 attacks go to civilian court, while those accused of other crimes are diverted to military commissions. Yes, al-Nishiri is accused of attacking a military target. But the attack occurred before the United States was engaged in any armed conflict and before the passage of the Authorization for Use of Military Force that the U.S. has relied on for the claimed armed conflict against al Qaeda. (In Hamdan, Justice Stevens described such retroactive use of military commissions as “insupportable”). As Deborah Pearlstein points out, the administration has failed to provide a consistent, let alone valid, legal theory why one case goes to a military commission and another to federal court—why one prisoner gets full due process in a federal trial while another receives due process lite in a refurbished commission. Military commissions may have a place in the limited circumstances of true necessity—where the civilian courts are not open, functioning, and capable of dispensing justice. But military “necessity” is not an excuse for the government to deviate from its regularly constituted courts because it lacks the evidence to convict. And even if that were not the reason (or the only reason) for using military commissions, it will be the enduring perception of America’s two-tiered system of justice.

     Holder’s announcement, moreover, deals only with one slice of Guantánamo. In the eight years since President Bush first created military commissions, only three men have been tried by these supposed “war courts.” By contrast, more than 750 have been detained without trial and more than 200 remain in legal limbo. Military commissions have helped mask a much larger system of prolonged and indefinite detention without charge. This open-ended detention system has been one of the most brutal, arbitrary, and lawless aspects of Guantánamo. (More than a hundred lawyers for detainees have now described its inside workings in a collection I’ve co-edited with Mark Denbeaux, “The Guantánamo Lawyers: Inside a Prison, Outside the Law (NYU Press). The Obama administration, however, has suggested that this system of indefinite detention will continue even after Guantánamo is closed and its remaining prisoners moved to another facility.

     Under Boumediene, Guantánamo detainees now have a constitutional right to habeas corpus. But habeas hearings are not criminal trials, and those whose military detention is approved by a habeas judge face the prospect of confinement without end. Indeed, under current law even those who win their habeas hearings will remain imprisoned if the United States cannot repatriate them since judges are powerless to order their release into the United States. (This is the question the Supreme Court will hear this term in Kiyemba).

     As long as the present menu of options for dealing with terrorism suspects remains in place, U.S. detention policy will remain essentially lawless. The government will be free to use federal courts when it is confident it can convict; employ military commissions if it has doubts about the strength of its evidence or faces other obstacles; and dispense with a trial altogether where its case is weakest. Welcome to Guantánamo 2.0.”

     http://balkin.blogspot.com/2009/11/guantanamo-justice-as-paradox.html
259. On November 18th, 2009 at 11:50 am , misanthropicus said...

     siseduermapierda says:

     [...] ”The trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury; and such trial shall be held in the state where said crimes shall have been committed.” [...]

     Wiggle, tumble – tell which is the state where the Lebanon terros who killed the Marines should be tried?
     Maybe that’s why dba Obama came with the idea of 57 states – now we have 7 extra states to use for accommodating your warped interpretations of the constitution.

     This idiocy has doomed the Domocrats for a few political cycles and will prepare the nation’s mood for having Obama in court for fraudulent electoral campaigning and presidential illegitimacy – now wiggle, tumble and speed up your constitutional shell game -
260. On November 18th, 2009 at 11:58 am , misanthropicus said...

     “Prosecutors who will try the 9/11 plotters in New York face a “Mission Impossible” task of winning death sentences for Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and his henchmen.” BY James Gordon Meek/ DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU/ Wednesday, November 18th 2009, 4:31 AM

     Many veteran federal prosecutors – including those working in counterterrorism – were shocked by U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder’s decision on a civilian trial in Manhattan for the jihadists.

     That’s because in the feds’ few past tries at the death penalty for foreign terrorists, they lost. And New York juries are seen as among the least likely to agree – unanimously, as the law requires – on execution. [...]
     ————-*————-
     More @
     http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/11/18/2009-11-18
261. On November 18th, 2009 at 12:29 pm , Black Lion said...

     “Gen. Clark, a former Democratic presidential candidate, praised President Barack Obama for taking his time in developing an Afghanistan strategy and said that any troop increase should wait until a firm endgame has been establsihed for U.S. Involvement in the country.

     “The legacy of Vietnam really looms over these discussions,” said Gen. Clark, reflecting on his experience in Vietnam and the arc of one of the nation’s most painful wars.

     “It’s particularly painful for me to see where we are in Afghanistan,” he said.”

     http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/nov/17/retired-gen-clark-calls-exit-strategy-afghanistan/?feat=home_headlines
262. On November 18th, 2009 at 12:55 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     Black Lion says:
     November 18, 2009 at 12:29 pm
     *“The legacy of Vietnam really looms over these discussions,” said Gen. Clark, reflecting on his experience in Vietnam and the arc of one of the nation’s most painful wars. *

     Interesting Gen Clark should bring up Vietnam, because Obama assigned the following reading to all members of his Afghanistan advisory group:
     “Lessons in Disaster:McGeorge Bundy and the Path to War in Vietnam”
     by Gordon M Goldstein

     http://www.amazon.com/Lessons-Disaster-McGeorge-Bundy-Vietnam/dp/0805090878/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top/188-3361469-7183729

     For history to not repeat it itself, Obama would take the advice of Ambassador Eikenberry and VP Biden and take a pass on a surge in Afghanistan. Like Biden asked “You are saying 90% of al quaida is in Pakistan, tell me again why we are spending 30x more money in Afghanistan than Pakistan?”
263. On November 18th, 2009 at 1:19 pm , Black Lion said...

     misanthropicus says:
     November 18, 2009 at 11:58 am
     “Prosecutors who will try the 9/11 plotters in New York face a “Mission Impossible” task of winning death sentences for Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and his henchmen.” BY James Gordon Meek/ DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU/ Wednesday, November 18th 2009, 4:31 AM
     __________________________________________________________________
     Also from that same article…

     “Frances Townsend, an ex-New York federal prosecutor who was former President George W. Bush’s top counterterror adviser, said death verdicts this time aren’t out of the question, but the odds are against it.

     She also maintained life without parole at “Supermax” could better service justice. KSM has said he wants to be martyred by execution, she noted, and, “Florence would be much worse for them.”

     Townsend recalled conversations with legendary FBI agent John O’Neill, a friend of hers, who was killed on 9/11 as the World Trade Center’s security chief.

     O’Neill had brought many terrorists back to the city to face justice, but agreed with the jury that rejected death sentences in the Africa bombings. He feared death sentences would help Al Qaeda cast the condemned as martyrs.”

     So as much as the death penalty might be difficult to achieve, maybe life in a SuperMax prison may be worse….Just food for thought…

     Also from the same newspaper…

     “In an unusually tough opening statement to the Senate Judiciary Committee, Holder said the feds have a long history of successfully prosecuting terrorists and that Mayor Bloomberg and police commissioner Ray Kelly agree the city can be protected during the trials.”

     “But Holder scoffed at that, insisting KSM’s voice and “hateful ideologies” will be no louder in civilian court than in a military commission.

     “We need not cower in the face of this enemy,” Holder said.

     If KSM repeats his earlier rants in the courthouse at the U.S. naval base in Cuba, “the nation and world will see him for the coward he is,” the attorney general added. “I’m not scared of what KSM has to say at trial – and no one else needs to be afraid, either.”

     “The last administration only prosecuted three terrorists,” an official said. “Now we’ve got the system up and running. People will see that American justice works.”

     http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/11/18/2009-11-18_president_obama_ag_holder_predict_khalid_shaikh_mohammed_guilty_verdict_will_vin.html

     And in the video that Phil posted he linked to comments made by Giuliani decrying the choice to try the terrorists in NYC. However it was quite interesting that he had a different opinion when it was the Bush Administration in charge…Nice flip flop by Rudy…It seems like opinions change depending on who is in charge. I wonder how much crying would Krauthammer, Morris, Cheney, and the others would be doing if former President Bush was still in charge. They would probably proclaim it to be the greatest idea since Sarah Palin.

     “When the 20th 9/11 bomber [Zacarias Moussaoui] was tried in Virginia, in a civilian court, and convicted, Mayor Giuliani testified in that case and he heralded the outcome,” Axelrod said on CNN”

     “After Moussaoui was convicted in 2006, but spared the death penalty by a federal jury, Giuliani said he was “in awe of our system.” “It does demonstrate that we can give people a fair trial, that we are exactly what we say we are. We are a nation of law. . . .I think [Moussaoui's] going to be a symbol of American justice.”

     Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2009/11/16/2009-11-16_team_bam_rips_2face_rudy.html#ixzz0XET8L4KZ
264. On November 18th, 2009 at 1:25 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE misanthropicus:

     [...] This idiocy has doomed the Democrats for a few political cycles and will prepare the nation’s mood for having Obama in court for fraudulent electoral campaigning and presidential illegitimacy [...]

     The latest Quinnipiac poll points in this direction – dba Obama has lost traction, he went under %50, and what will follow is a long agony, ’till the coup de grace (his being un-masked as the presidential usurper he is), will close this miserable chapter in the American history:

     “President Barack Obama’s job approval rating is 48 – 42 percent, the first time he has slipped below the 50 percent threshold nationally, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today. Support for the war in Afghanistan and approval of President Obama’s handling of the war also is down in the last month, and Republican support for the war is more than twice as strong as Democratic support. [...]

     More @:
     http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1397
265. On November 18th, 2009 at 1:48 pm , misanthropicus said...

     “Trial and Terror/The Left gets its reckoning/By Andrew C. McCarthy

     The decision to bring Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other top al-Qaeda terrorists to New York City for a civilian trial is one of the most irresponsible ever made by a presidential administration.

     That it is motivated by politics could not be more obvious.

     That it spells unprecedented danger for our security will soon become obvious.

     The five 9/11 plotters were originally charged in a military commission. Military commissions have been approved by Congress and the courts. Eleven months ago, the jihadists were prepared to end the military case by pleading guilty and proceeding to execution. Plus, the Obama administration is continuing the commission system for other enemy combatants accused of war crimes. If we are going to have military commissions for any war criminals, it is senseless not to have them for the worst war criminals. In sum, there is no good legal or policy rationale for transferring these barbarians to the civilian justice system. Doing so will prompt a hugely costly three-ring circus of a trial, provide a soapbox for al-Qaeda’s anti-American bile, and create a public-safety nightmare for New York City.

     There is, however, a patent political rationale behind Obama’s decision.

     The terrorists are clearly committed members of the al-Qaeda conspiracy to wage a terrorist war against the United States — so much so that KSM cannot help himself, bragging about his atrocities against our country, including the 9/11 massacre of nearly 3,000 Americans. Further, controversy surrounds the intelligence-collection measures used by the Bush administration after 9/11 — measures such as enhanced interrogation that, though they saved countless lives, have been stridently condemned by the antiwar Left. This antiwar Left, President Obama’s base, has demanded investigations and prosecutions against Bush officials. [...]

     More @:
     http://article.nationalreview.com/q=MWMwN2UyNzYwN2M1Y2JkNTdiODk1OWMyYmVmYTA2YmU=
266. On November 18th, 2009 at 2:15 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     yeah,
     things are getting bad and it’s just starting
     the film has got all the scientists up in arms defending their turf
     next we’ll get the people who believe tell us what THEY think
     that’s when we must spread the news
     end of times
     that’s why rev. mannings (Atlah) got shut
     obama’s antichrist announced by many signs/omens
     666 777 9 election day
     meteorite
     movie 2012

     OUST THE ANTICHRIST
     He’s vulnerable now with the end-of-times movie
     reveal all the six topics of my page

     http://www.youtube.com/user/NamchuWangden

     Spread this like the REVELATION – now !
     we can’t put up with this trash and garbage
     one more minute !
     it’s intolerable….
267. On November 18th, 2009 at 2:17 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Observer:

     Oh. You’re alarmed.

     Have you considered Xanax?
268. On November 18th, 2009 at 2:49 pm , Observer said...

     SanDiegoSam says:
     November 18, 2009 at 2:17 pm
     Observer:

     Oh. You’re alarmed.

     Have you considered Xanax?

     Again, need to define terms … esp. when entering into the medical area. You must have experience with anxiety to so quickly have a knee jerk and addictive reaction to normal warning responses to would be leaders who aren’t even acquainted with the land they aspire to lead. I would only be concerned with those who were not alarmed at such a prospect – which, btw, we’ve now learned by experience was the sane and proper response to this inept and dangerous person. So, yes, alarm is the natural response to such openly broadcasted incompetence.
269. On November 18th, 2009 at 2:55 pm , Phil said...

     Black Lion,

     Phil, I agree with you 100% about this guys guilt. But I don’t think you are giving our justice system its due credit.

     Do you mean, such as, what happens if KSM is acquitted and the AG says that the government will still hold him anyway?

     What would that say about our judicial system?

     “Why, yes! You’re acquitted, but we still can’t let you go because we knew all along that you’re guilty as sin.”

     -Phil
270. On November 18th, 2009 at 2:56 pm , Observer said...

     “Gen. Clark, a former Democratic presidential candidate, praised President Barack Obama for taking his time in developing an Afghanistan strategy and said that any troop increase should wait until a firm endgame has been establsihed for U.S. Involvement in the country.

     And the troops don’t refer to him as “Wesley the weasel” for nothing:

     http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jatras12.html
271. On November 18th, 2009 at 2:59 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Geir:

     The Bible says the Antichrist is announced by a meteorite and many signs

     Like I pointed out. We are hit by a meteorite once every 6 minutes. As “signs” go, that’s worse than saying the Antichrist will be announced by the sun rising in the East.

     also the meteorite I’m talking about is not the ones you mention

     every six minutes

     this is the 21st century’s biggest

     wiki speaks
     >The solar eclipse of 22 July 2009 was the longest total solar eclipse during the 21st century, not to be surpassed until June 2132.[1] It lasted a maximum of 6 minutes and 39 seconds off the coast of Southeast Asia,[2] causing tourist interest in eastern China, Japan, India and Nepal.[2][3][4]

     That’s not a meteorite, Geir. You need to look up “meteorite.”

     As to solar eclipses… you already seem to be aware that the solar eclipse on 13 June 2132 will be longer than the one last July. So… shouldn’t we expect the Antichrist in 2132?

     Worse, there have been at least 20 solar eclipses over the last 2000 years that were longer than this years’. Most recently in 1937, 1955 and 1973 we had eclipses that lasted over 7 minutes each. Why would God give us a crummy little puny eclipse that doesn’t even last 7 minutes to announce the Antichrist, when He gives us longer ones about once a decade? I mean, He’s God. Why do you accuse Him of being mediocre and giving wussy signs?

     Heck… some Annular Eclipses last longer than 12 minutes!!! Why wouldn’t He use one of those as a sign?

     You must really have a low opinion of God.
272. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:14 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     tminu:

     You inexplicably edited out this preface to your list:

     “The Times compiled an informal list of the new rules from interviews.”

     In other words… these are not actually the engagement rules at all. In fact, you have no idea what the actual rules are.

     As usual.
273. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Observer:

     Again, need to define terms … esp. when entering into the medical area.

     And yet… you go on to fail and define anything. Go figure.

     That said, no. I am not the slightest alarmed by the decision to bring KSM to New York for trial. I am confident in the ability of our judicial system to do its job.

     After all… it has been PERFECT in the Birther cases. My confidence is therefore correspondingly high.
274. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:19 pm , Black Lion said...

     Phil says:
     November 18, 2009 at 2:55 pm
     Black Lion,

     Phil, I agree with you 100% about this guys guilt. But I don’t think you are giving our justice system its due credit.
     Do you mean, such as, what happens if KSM is acquitted and the AG says that the government will still hold him anyway?

     What would that say about our judicial system?

     “Why, yes! You’re acquitted, but we still can’t let you go because we knew all along that you’re guilty as sin.”

     -Phil
     ___________________________________________________________________
     Phil, good point. But again you don’t think that they picked these terrorists out of the hundreds the are housing there for a reason? Maybe they know something that we don’t. Quite possibly there is admissible evidence that is overwhelming. Like a confession or testimony of other terrorists. We don’t know the evidence. And according to the Bush administration, the evidence of guilt for the evildoers was overwhelming.

     Secondly, trust me, I live and work in NY near the WTC. I walk past Ground Zero every day and my boss’ window overlooks the site. People want to see justice. I would guess that the odds are very small of them being acquitted. That is like saying what if the 20th hijacker had been acquitted when he was put on trial. Again you seem to lack confidence in the greatest legal system in the world.
275. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:24 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     PHIL THIS IS THE BIG ONE remember I told you
     http://savannahnow.com/news/2009-11-18/nathan-deal-calls-obama-produce-birth-certificate-proving-hes-eligible-presidency

     Nathan Deal calls on Obama to produce birth certificate proving he’s eligible for presidency
     Congressman running for governor calls on president to produce birth certificate

     By Larry Peterson

     It’s the question that keeps poking its head up through piles of debunking documents: Is Barack Obama eligible to be president?

     U.S. Rep. Nathan Deal says Obama can dispel it with a birth certificate showing he’s a U.S. native and therefore qualified for the White House.

     Deal, a Republican running for governor in 2010, called on Obama on Tuesday to “put the matter to rest … and provide the documentary evidence.”

     But two independent fact-checking groups and the state of Hawaii say he already has. Their conclusion: Obama was born Aug. 4, 1961, in Honolulu.

     Deal, who discussed the matter when a reporter asked about it earlier this month, was asked about it again Tuesday during a campaign stop in Savannah.

     “My office, and I’m sure many other offices,” the Gainesville lawmaker said, “continue to get inquiries. … The president has the ability to put this to rest completely, and I think he should do that. …

     “It takes up my staff’s time. We are constantly required to answer these kinds of inquiries. … I’m willing to take his word for it, but I think he needs to convince those who still have doubts.”

     Under the U.S. Constitution, only native-born citizens may serve as president. Hawaii became a state in 1959.

     Early in the campaign for the 2008 presidential election, critics of Obama argued he was born in another country.

     Obama’s presidential campaign posted online what it said was a copy of the document.

     FactCheck.org said its staffers have “seen, touched and photographed” the certificate and concluded it’s genuine.

     PolitiFact said it sent an online copy to Hawaii’s Department of Health and that the department responded the document is authentic.

     The Associated Press has reported it received the same response from the department.

     Both fact-checking groups have posted online rebuttals of contentions by Obama critics that the document is a fake.

     And FactCheck.org has posted online a copy of a birth announcement it said was published Aug. 13, 1961, in the Honolulu Advertiser.

     The announcement says a son was born to “Mr. and Mrs. Barack H. Obama” on Aug. 4.

     Several judges have rejected lawsuits based on claims Obama is not lawfully president.

     In July, White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs dismissed such claims as “made-up fictional nonsense.”

     Asked why the issue keeps surfacing, Gibbs responded, “Because, for $15, you can get an Internet address and say whatever you want.”

     “This question has been asked and answered, and I have no additional comment,” White House Spokeswoman Gannet Tseggai said Tuesday.

     Deal, due to continue campaigning in Savannah today, said he and other House members will sign a letter to Obama asking him to provide the birth certificate.

     “They just want to get it off their plate,” he said. “… It just needs to be put to rest.”

     But he did not appear eager to press the matter.

     “I did not think that was an appropriate question to be asking in regard to a governor’s race,” he said, referring to the initial inquiry.

     A reporter posed the question during what was billed as an online chat between Deal and supporters.

     If Obama will “simply tell us where we should refer … inquiries that come to our offices,” he added Tuesday, “we’ll do that. And we’ll be satisfied.”

     Geir: Obama’s cornered now but the signs are everywhere
     the antichrist’s cornered
     WND is being endorsed by four House Members to send “pink slips” to Congressmen asking about things like birth issues
     now let’s reveal the Marks of the Beast on obama

     a meteorite announced him
     2012 the end-of-tiems film swamping the whole world from coast to coast is also a sign

     the Antichrist is crumbling under the attacks
     it’s now
     move it
276. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:31 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     So it’s official? Deal’s not gonna write that letter after all?

     Told you so.
277. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:42 pm , St. Lucie said...

     sise, I am disappointed by your need to denigrate my education as I was merely asking for someone to explain. As I understand it, the Constitution begins with three words, written in large, bold, and elegantly flourished writing not intended to be merely pretty. The words, as you well know, are We The People. Now, to me that means We the People of the United States……what follows in the Constitution, as I see it, applies to the citizens of this country. I have yet to see any non citizen in our history alleged to have conspired to or to have committed an act of war on our country to be given the right to trial other than that by military trial or tribunal.
278. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:42 pm , Black Lion said...

     Observer says:
     November 18, 2009 at 2:56 pm
     “Gen. Clark, a former Democratic presidential candidate, praised President Barack Obama for taking his time in developing an Afghanistan strategy and said that any troop increase should wait until a firm endgame has been establsihed for U.S. Involvement in the country.

     And the troops don’t refer to him as “Wesley the weasel” for nothing:

     http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jatras12.html
     ___________________________________________________________________
     “Wesley Kanne Clark, Sr., KBE (born December 23, 1944) is a retired general of the United States Army. Clark was valedictorian of his class at West Point, was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship to the University of Oxford where he obtained a degree in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, and later graduated from the Command and General Staff College with a master’s degree in military science. He spent 34 years in the Army and the Department of Defense, receiving many military decorations, several honorary knighthoods, and a Presidential Medal of Freedom.”

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesley_Clark

     So what you are telling me is that there are some that don’t like th guy. OK. However with his experience and background I would think his views and opinions would make more sense than some of the talking heads we have seen on TV squawking about Afganistan.
279. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:46 pm , Observer said...

     SanDiegoSam says:
     November 18, 2009 at 3:19 pm
     Observer:

     Again, need to define terms … esp. when entering into the medical area.
     And yet… you go on to fail and define anything. Go figure.

     That said, no. I am not the slightest alarmed by the decision to bring KSM to New York for trial. I am confident in the ability of our judicial system to do its job.

     After all… it has been PERFECT in the Birther cases. My confidence is therefore correspondingly high.

     The “defining” was done within my response, but it must be that you can only discern such when perhaps directive neon Wiki or Webster notation directs you.

     And while understanding your preferred group’s constant need to confess personal feelings, it really wasn’t necessary in this instance since the KSM transfer was not the question within these limited comments!! And then we have your next non-sequitur re: “Birthers” here which can only then be considered some kind of rambling or perhaps, compulsive need add on outside the scope of what was being discussed. Focus!!
280. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:48 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     St. Lucie:

     I have yet to see any non citizen in our history alleged to have conspired to or to have committed an act of war on our country to be given the right to trial other than that by military trial or tribunal.

     The name Ramzi Yousuf ring a bell?

     How about Zacharias Mousawi?

     Richard Reid maybe?
281. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:54 pm , Observer said...

     So what you are telling me is that there are some that don’t like th guy. OK. However with his experience and background I would think his views and opinions would make more sense than some of the talking heads we have seen on TV squawking about Afganistan.

     No it is a general understanding of the man. You must not have much experience within the military and that general consideration of the man.
282. On November 18th, 2009 at 3:59 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE Phil RE Black Lion,

     1) [...] What would that say about our judicial system?
     “Why, yes! You’re acquitted, but we still can’t let you go because we knew all along that you’re guilty as sin.” [...]

     Situation in which senator Jack Reed hilariously got stuck Sunday on Fox with Chris Wallace:

     [...]
     WALLACE: But — and very briefly — if someone is acquitted and then he’s picked up again…
     REED: I…
     WALLACE: … what’s the message that that would send to the rest of the world?
     REED: I do not believe they will be released, because under the principle of preventive detention, which is recognized during hostilities, we held…
     WALLACE: No, no, no. What I’m saying is if he’s acquitted and then picked up again and held…
     REED: Well, but you…
     WALLACE: … what’s the message that sends?
     REED: … you presume that he’ll be acquitted and released.
     WALLACE: I’m just…
     REED: I don’t presume…
     WALLACE: … raising the issue.
     REED: … he’ll be released.
     WALLACE: Senator Reed…
     REED: Thank you, sir.
     WALLACE: … thank you. always a pleasure. Thanks for coming in.
     [...]
     the rest of this comedy @:
     http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,575238,00.html
     —————-

     2) … or president Obama coming with his dime’s worth:
     [...] I don’t think it will be offensive at all when he’s convicted and when the death penalty is applied to him. [...] http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2009/11/18/)

     … and while the liberals keep invoking the idea of judicial integrity being served by bringing KSM to NYC, the great legal thinker Obama has now reversed “the police acted stupidly” concept and shoots from the hip, declaring KSM GUILTY – so, how on the earth can one put together an an-prejudiced jury for this trial (and this in NY, of all places), when a president with such an impressing legal credentials background like Obama declares the defendant GUILTY?
283. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:01 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     So Observer…. are you a Vet?
284. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:07 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     No Congress Rep. Nathan Deal says he’ll write the letter asking Obama for his birth certificate with four other House Members.

     see the article

     u’re really intellectually-defective

     stop ur demonic lying all the time

     can’t one single truth come out of ur mouth ?

     http://savannahnow.com/news/2009-11-18/nathan-deal-calls-obama-produce-birth-certificate-proving-hes-eligible-presidency

     u’re like linda blair the beast in the exorcist. Spouting green.
285. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:09 pm , Black Lion said...

     From an article in today’s Huffington Post….

     “Maybe I should have been more expansive in response to the question,” he said. “Certainly we have thought, I have thought, about that possibility and one of the things this administration has consistently said, in fact, Congress has passed legislation, that would not allow for the release into this country of anybody who is deemed dangerous.”

     “So if, if, there were the possibility that a trial was not successful that would not mean they would be released into our country,” Holder added. “But again I want to emphasize that I’m confident we will be successful in the trial of these matters.”

     Indeed, the case against KSM would seem airtight for the Justice Department or else they would never have brought him to trial in New York. The question is: can DOJ get guilty verdicts for other detainees considering the issues that will undoubtedly arise around the permissibility of testimony and evidence?

     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/18/grassley-to-holder-rememb_n_362125.html

     Even funnier is the lack of success at fearmongering by Rove, Cheney, Gingrich and Kristol. Their so called attempt to “rally” people against the prospect of bringing the terrorists to the US to stand trial for the heinous crimes seem to have fallen on deaf ears…Could it mean that a significant amount of Americans, not influenced by the talking heads at the FOX Comedy network and other conservative publications support trying and convicting these criminal terrorists here in America?

     From the article…

     “On Monday, Karl Rove sent a tweet to his 92,000 followers: “Don’t sit out: 9:30am 11/18 Dirksen Senate Bldg Rm G-50 to oppose Atty Gen’s testimony on trying terrorists on U.S. soil.” On Tuesday, Newt Gingrich dispatched a similar message to his 1.2 million Twitter devotees: “Join @keepamericasafe at 9:30am Wed at Dirksen Senate Bldg to protest Holder’s testimony on bringing terrorists to US.” Keep America Safe is Elizabeth Cheney’s new hawkish group—neocon godfather Bill Kristol is one of its three board members—and on Tuesday it tweeted followers: “Reminder 9:30 am show Holder and Obama what you think about the terror trial decision.” The Keep American Safe website also posted a “call to action,” urging protesters to storm the Senate on Wednesday morning, when Attorney General Eric Holder was scheduled to testify about the Obama administration’s plan to bring 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and other terrorism detainees to New York City to stand trial. Cheney’s outfit asked its supporters to send Obama and his allies in Congress a clear message: “WE WILL FIGHT YOU ALL THE WAY.”

     “No such message was delivered on Wednesday morning. When Holder arrived at the committee room in the Dirksen Building, there were no demonstrators, no angry mob. Some 9/11 relatives who oppose trying KSM in New York were in the house. (There are 9/11 families on both sides of this debate.) But the scene was the same as that accompanying most hearings. There was not even a standing-room-only crowd. Plenty of empty chairs could be found in the seating section for the general public. No throng of irate citizens was gathered in the hallway or outside the building. The Capitol Hill police reported no signs of any protest. This was no tea party. Essentially, no one had responded to the urgent pleas from Rove, Gingrich, Kristol, and Cheney.”

     http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2009/11/rove-cheney-gingrich-and-kristol-fail-rally-911-trial-foes
286. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:14 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     But Geir…. he said that two weeks ago too. And nothing.

     Actions speak a whole lot louder than words. Ya think?
287. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:15 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     It’s coming from EVERYWHERE

     http://washingtonindependent.com/68298/gop-rep-garrett-i-agree-that-obama-should-produce-birth-certificate

     GOP Rep. Garrett: ‘I Agree’ That Obama Should Produce Birth Certificate

     See the video

     Obama’s got trouble
     plus the 2012 film is spreading the end of times message worldwide

     This is when the Antichrist Obama will be revealed

     Spread this message everywhere with the full explanation of the Marks of the Beast of the Antichrist on my page

     http://www.youtube.com/user/NamchuWangden

     Marks of the Beast are money
     Obama’s money
     Don’t accept his money smearing you
     refuse the man

     http://mediamatters.org/blog/200911180018

     Four Congress members endorse WND demanding the birth certificate

     I’ve counted six Reps coming forth now just today.

     This is fast. The Apocalypse hits like lightning from heaven. +Read the Bible you’ll see that there. I’m not Christian see my page. I follow a deity, called Kalachakra, of Tibetan Tantric Buddhism, the world’s highest form of culture. Also end of times.
288. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:15 pm , Observer said...

     Black Lion re: Wesley (the weasel) Clark:

     So what you are telling me is that there are some that don’t like th guy. OK. However with his experience and background I would think his views and opinions would make more sense than some of the talking heads we have seen on TV squawking about Afganistan.

     The guy himself is an unrelenting media “talking head”. And there was common reference to his likely “bedroom at CNN”.
289. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:20 pm , Black Lion said...

     misanthropicus says:
     November 18, 2009 at 3:59 pm

     … and while the liberals keep invoking the idea of judicial integrity being served by bringing KSM to NYC, the great legal thinker Obama has now reversed “the police acted stupidly” concept and shoots from the hip, declaring KSM GUILTY – so, how on the earth can one put together an an-prejudiced jury for this trial (and this in NY, of all places), when a president with such an impressing legal credentials background like Obama declares the defendant GUILTY?
     ____________________________________________________________________

     But aren’t you saying that they are guilty? That is why we don’t need to try them, correct? Wasn’t former President Bush and 5 deferment Dick Cheney saying that these and the other “evildoers” are all guilty so that is why we are detaining them in Gitmo and putting them in front of miltary tribunals? But now you now have an issue with the fact that the President (Obama) thinks and states publically that the so called mastermind behind 9/11 is guilty? That is funny. I can bet you that if the President had said “we need to wait and see all of the evidence before we rush to judgement” you would be vilifying him. Wait, you have already done that. It is kind of interesting that you had no such issue when the Bush, Cheney, Rove, Kristol, Krauthammer, Sessions, and other conservatives say or said the same thing about the guilt of KSM and the other terrorists. You might want to be careful because your hypocrisy is showing…
290. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:25 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     So Observer… I’ll ask again. Are you a Vet?
291. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:34 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Cover-up ? In five minutes I see three posts covering my own posts saying obama is fallen now. He’s over Kaputt ! Finito.
     Sending massive posts to cover a post is called “Washing” on Internet a known technique of paid-posters on pay-rolls.

     I’ve got more posts and also the links of the past posts.

     Obama will be out FAST NOW.

     Spread the news now fast.

     Read the posts below with the links and get ready for the links being sent again.

     The Obot demons are washing and covering this up. It’ll not work they’re toast and ready for the fall. Too.

     Obama’s toast in Congress and it’s all coming apart worldwide. Everyone’s in on this now. Tearing it down like the Berlin Wall. Massive floods of good folks.
292. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:38 pm , Black Lion said...

     Observer says:
     November 18, 2009 at 4:15 pm
     Black Lion re: Wesley (the weasel) Clark:

     So what you are telling me is that there are some that don’t like th guy. OK. However with his experience and background I would think his views and opinions would make more sense than some of the talking heads we have seen on TV squawking about Afganistan.

     The guy himself is an unrelenting media “talking head”. And there was common reference to his likely “bedroom at CNN”.
     ____________________________________________________________________
     Observer, no I am not all that familar with the military. And yes he is an analyst for CNN. But his military experience is a lot more than guys like 5 deferment Dick Cheney, Bill Kristol, Krauthammer, Limbaugh, and Karl Rove going around on the talk show circuit expousing on the military and whether or not we should increase the troop levels…As far as his bedroom at CNN goes I had not heard that story but am not sure how that affects his military expertise…
293. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:42 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     St. Lucie says:
     November 18, 2009 at 3:42 pm
     *what follows in the Constitution, as I see it, applies to the citizens of this country.*

     You are wrong. Have you never read the Constitution after the “We the People” part? All the amendments that deal with due process of law (4th, 5th, 6th, 14th) refer to “people” and “persons”,not citizens. Article III, Sec 2 says “The trial of all crimes shall be by jury in the state where the said crimes shall have been committed” Nowhere does it say, “just for citizens”. GO READ. Thinking “We the People” means “everything after ‘We the People’ applies to citizens only” is a load of complete nonsense. If that is how you see it, St Lucie, you slept through your civics classes. You should be embarrassed to continue to insist on something that is completely incorrect. The Constitution doesn’t apply to people at all. Go Read, the Constitution only tells the government what it may and may not do. And then while you’re thinking about it, think of all the trials in which non-citizens have been given due process in the course of their trial: Richard Reed, the shoe bomber; Zachharias Moussaui, the 20th hijacker, Sheik Rahmed, the 1993 WTC bombing mastermind. Neil Entwistle,a British national, was tried in Mass for murdering his wife and baby…on and on, happens every day in court rooms.
294. On November 18th, 2009 at 4:46 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Awesome disaster: Obama is being mauled worse than with pitbulls hanging onto him here:

     http://www.newshounds.us/2009/11/17/lou_dobbs_on_oreilly_100_im_gonna_remain_in_the_public_arena_as_a_semiregular_on_the_factor_for_starters.php

     It’s just coming at from everywhere. Old foe Lou Dobbs is even stabbing him in the back ONE MORE TIME

     excerpt:
     O’Reilly finally focused on the “birthers,” saying, “Now the birther thing, I think that hurt you – you gave them voice and . . . it’s okay to give them voice, but they appeared a lot on your program.”

     As an aside, Dobbs put his finger across his mouth when O’Reilly started talking about the birthers – I wonder what Tonya the body language expert would say about that?

     Dobbs defended himself, saying, “Actually, no, this was about a 2-week period . . . Here’s what I said about birthers, Bill. I said birthers have a question about a birth certificate. I personally believe that Barack Obama’s a citizen of the United States. What I don’t understand is that with Army officers refusing to serve in Afghanistan, with lawsuits going forward, why not just produce the doggone birth certificate and be done with it. That was my offense, to ask the question, and my question to you is, what kind of country is it when someone in the media asks a question and that becomes a controversy?” Uh, when lawsuits get thrown out of court and the attorney bringing the lawsuits gets fined $20,000 for bringing a frivolous suit, is that still considered “going forward?” Just askin’.

     Geir: Lou again said “WHY NOT JUST PRODUCE THE DOGGONE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ?”

     It’s just one long slog through the mud for Obama today, the last day for him.

     He could be in jail in hours on this and be court-martialled for the nuclear breaching on fake ID. That would mean immediate death penalty and injecting by DC law or at least Virginia law.
295. On November 18th, 2009 at 5:09 pm , Black Lion said...

     Another article on the hypocrisy of the so called right…

     Addressing the Department of Justice’s decision to try terrorist suspects in civilian court rather than a military tribunal, Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-Ala.), on Wednesday, called the move unprecedented and indefensible.

     Only, it’s happened before, and Sessions, the ranking Republican on the Judiciary Committee, once defended it.

     “Back in 2002, when the Bush Department of Justice put Zacarias Moussaoui, the so-called 20th 9/11 hijacker, on trial in a federal court in northern Virginia, the Alabama Republican was willing to grant presidential deference. “[The White House] probably thought it might be good to try this one in public,” Sessions said, according to a Lexis-Nexis transcript of a January 2, 2002, Gannett News Service article. Sessions, who the news service described as backing Bush’s decision, noted that the hearings would come with additional hurdles.”

     “But he was far more lenient and forgiving of Bush than he has been towards the Obama administration for choosing the same judicial path. On Wednesday, the Alabama Republican told Fox News that Attorney General Eric Holder’s current decision was “really not a defensible position.”

     “Sessions isn’t the only one whistling a harsher tune now than he did nearly eight years ago. Former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani, who has been dispatched by the Republican Party this past week to savage the Obama White House for its decision, insisted that putting detainees like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed on trial would give “an unnecessary advantage… to the terrorists.”

     “Interviewed after the Moussaoui trial, however, Giuliani insisted that the verdict (no death penalty but six consecutive life terms with no possibly of parole) said “something pretty remarkable” about the American people and legal system. “I could tell that these jurors were very emotionally affected by this as I was when we went through all of the events,” he said. “And yet they were able to come to what they regarded as a rational judgment. It has to say something about what America is like. And even though I am disappointed that they didn’t reach the death penalty result, I would have preferred that, I have great respect for what they did here.”

     “There were other Republicans, as well, who praised the Moussaoui case as exemplary of the United States government’s commitment to open and fair judicial hearings. Former Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-Tenn.) said that the verdict was “a small but important piece of justice” that provided “proof that our society is grounded in the liberating power of justice and the rule of law, which are our most valuable weapons in the war on terror.”

     http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/18/sessions-giuliani-backed_n_362479.html
296. On November 18th, 2009 at 5:36 pm , St. Lucie said...

     sise, Why do you find the need for such a sharp tongue? I have read the Constitution, and no, I was not asleep during civics or American history classes. I HAVE thought about the non citizens being given due process. Richard Reid (unsucessful British citizen terrorist) was picked up only 3 mo. after 9-11, Zachharias Moussaui was picked up in Aug. 2001, before 9-11, 1993 World Trade Center terrorist Sheik was treated as a criminal act, not an act of war. Entwistle was a murderer, not a terrorist enemy combatant. Terrorists such as KSM, Reid, Moussaui who have declared war on us deserve a trial in the proper venue…..military tribunal under military law, not under Constitutional provisions. No need to answer, sise. I understand where you are coming from.
297. On November 18th, 2009 at 6:06 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     San Diego Sam, I agree action speaks more than words; so Rep. Nathan Deal making a new press article now, looks like a “pattern”, and that’s not just words, that’s action.

     It’s unfortunate for Obama’s sorry ass, but Deal has now threatened Obama so many times, that it looks like this is the real thing. Obama’s going to be asked officially, by legal Congress letter, by Congressmen, to show his certificate, and he can’t deny that or he’ll be outlawed.

     Phil, can you tell us what would happen if Obama refused to answer Nathan Deal’s letter written with several other House Members ? Would that be a Constitutional Crisis ? Can they sue him, or litigate ? They’re after all the law-makers so they can do whatever they want right ? Like vote an “Emergency”.

     It’s undeniable that Rep. Deal is serious now that’s he’s repeated it so many times and this is verily going to happen in hours or maybe days at most. He’s presently campaigning, on the stump, but he’ll be back in DC shortly.

     Other things are also happening like this NJ Congressman confronted:

     NJ Lawyer confronts NJ Congressman Scott Garrett at 11/5/09 Washington DC House call on the Obama Presidential qualifications requirement of US Constitution under Article II Section 1. Republicans and all Congressman do not realize the tens of millions of voting Americans wanting this issue resolved. Although considered a minority, the numbers are large enough to impact primaries especially for Republicans who seem to be skirting the issue.

     Geir: we gotta know that it’s anarchy out there with the end-of-times groups thinking the Apocalypse is around the corner. And millions of film-goers too. Bad news for Obama, and good news for spreading the message he’s the ANTICHRIST !
298. On November 18th, 2009 at 6:15 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     St. Lucie says:
     November 18, 2009 at 5:36 pm
     St. Lucie says:
     *military tribunal under military law, not under Constitutional provisions.*

     That’s you opinion. The Justice Dept and most legal experts opinion is that the WTC are crimes, mass murder, and Article III,Sec 2 applies.
299. On November 18th, 2009 at 6:20 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Geir:

     Zero + Zero = Zero

     Deal is all talk.

     Now, as to you… why do you have such a low opinion of God?
300. On November 18th, 2009 at 6:25 pm , MGB said...

     Geir: Thanks for the update on the movie 2012. Not likely I’ll see it, so I appreciate hearing that Hollywood is toady-ing to China, too. Guess who else I’m referring to?

     misanthropicus says:
     November 16, 2009 at 8:41 pm
     “Right you are, MGB. Then, remember: hope and change – didn’t happen; transparency – didn’t happen; finding the dogs that ate my biography, give them purgatives and come with the retrieved paper trail in the front of this nation the clear everything – ain’t happen (yet); etc. etc…”

     

     Did you see this?

     http://www.theonion.com/content/video/obamas_home_teleprompter
301. On November 18th, 2009 at 6:25 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     San Diego, I don’t believe in god, I’m Buddhist. I hope you’re not hatred-filled.

     http://www.northwestgeorgia.com/local/local_story_321194623.html

     excerpt:

     Deal to participate in online chat on Wednesday

     U.S. Rep. Nathan Deal, a Republican candidate for governor, will participate in a second scheduled online chat with Georgians Wednesday from 4 to 5 p.m.

     “Ask Nathan” is an opportunity for participants to ask questions on a variety of issues that affect Georgia. During the first online chat, Deal was able to answer 25 questions in the hour-long event.

     In addition, the site developed for the question and answer series, http://www.asknathandeal.com, has a series of question and answer videos addressing issues including the sanctity of life, the verification of citizenship to obtain publicly funded health care and providing tax relief for Georgians.

     Those who wish to participate in the online chat are encouraged to register in advance.

     Geir: It was at that chat online that he kicked off this whole deal. He’s revving up now. The chat should be about now at this time or already over. Let’s see the fall-out.

     http://washingtonindependent.com/68298/gop-rep-garrett-i-agree-that-obama-should-produce-birth-certificate

     About Rep Garrett:
     At around 4:40 in the video, the congressman finally engages.

     “Obviously, there is no political solution to it,” says Garrett. “Even if the entire Republican Party was united on the issue–”

     He’s cut off by another constituent. “Have him show his birth certificate! It’s as simple as that! None of this ‘talk about it, talk about it’ — just let’s see the birth certificate!”

     “I agree,” says Garrett — who’s not one of the 12 sponsors of the “birther bill.”
302. On November 18th, 2009 at 6:35 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Geir:

     Oh… so you don’t believe in Christ?

     Why then would you believe in an anti-Christ?
303. On November 18th, 2009 at 6:41 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     San Diego, we have the Apocalypse in our Kalachakra cycle.

     It will be the Apocalypse just as in the Christian cycle.

     The Bible says likewise that all of Christianity will be destroyed. It will be flooded by fake christs and fake prophets.

     This is the same as in our cycle. Nothng will be left standing fo the past. It will be a new world a New Age.

     Now put one and one together.

     Signs of the end everywhere, and the birth people going for a a quick knock-out with the letter asking officially with no wiggle-room to back out, for Obama -…for his certificate. You have an Apocalypse on our hands because we’re looking at about one full year of turmoil to get a new president back in the seat and in working order.

     This will be vicious. Get ready ’cause here we come. Get READY !
304. On November 18th, 2009 at 7:03 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Obama is the world’s most powerful man so his fall is dizzying for many aspects.

     It’s an astounding defeat – disavowal – shame for all the Blacks of the world.

     It’s a terrible thing for all those hoping in him.

     Secondly his mixed heritage throws shame upon all his influences.

     Islam, Christianity, all will be shamed by one of theirs’ being so dishonoured.

     He was all they held up most proudly making their fall all the more stupendous (big – astounding). I’ll try not to use too high-falluttin’ words so you can understand me.

     Black Nationalism, Liberation Theology, Communism, Radicalism, Judaism – don’t forget his Jewish-claimed brother and cousin.

     These seven faiths are debased and wasted by this debacle and are truely his seven heads.

     His foot-loose life on five continents’ countries (England – Obama’s english, both Hawai and Kenya pre-1961 came under English empirium; Marx’s Russia-Germany…Africa; Kenya; Hawai; Indonesia; Saudi’s Islam; Israel – his family -; USA – don’t forget Obama does have some American blood, about 50%) are his ten horns.

     He’s the true Antichrist don’t doubt this and have some faith in your Christianity.

     I preach better Bible than you Christians who have lost it.
305. On November 18th, 2009 at 7:05 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Geir:

     San Diego, we have the Apocalypse in our Kalachakra cycle.

     Ooooh. Bad news, Geir. You are about 415 years early. The Kalachakra “Armageddon” is scheduled for 2424 AD.
306. On November 18th, 2009 at 7:25 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     I’m not stupid san Diego, and where do you get that from ?
     You Googled it or do you claim to know something about Kalachakra ?

     Well get back to Googling, and see that the Kalachakra Apocalypse is NOW. (Also, it’s the same pattern of circuitous thinking with you San Diego, you always think that your conclusions make the reality be different. That’s called “refusing to see reality”. It’s a paradigm, i.e. refusing to see things because you don’t want them to be that way.)

     You can see it’s written clearly that the data or Googling you just did is fake, wrong and false.

     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalachakra

     >In both traditions, the Kalachakra and its related commentaries (sometimes referred to as the Bodhisattvas Corpus) were returned to India in 966CE by an Indian pandit. In the Ra tradition this figure is known as Chilupa, and in the Dro tradition as Kalachakrapada the Greater. Scholars such as Helmut Hoffman have suggested they are the same person. The first masters of the tradition disguised themselves with pseudonyms, so the Indian oral traditions recorded by the Tibetans contain a mass of contradictions.>

     Geir: Did you get that ?
     “a mass of contradictions”
     Bull in English.

     I’ll not be harsh with you San, because you’ve spoken out and have gone to the extent of actually Googling which is cool. But I’ve done twenty-eight years of non-stop study upon exclusively Kalachakra, and have many books upon it to study for people who are interested, so indeed, I’m not going to take any statement made in haste about Kalachakra.

     I’m the world authority upon Kalachakra, and the Tibetan statements about it are pure rubbish. I know because I’m a forty-year Tibetan Tantric Buddhist myself and know much more than the poor Tibetans who are persecuted and prevented from studying their precious lord Kalachakra.
307. On November 18th, 2009 at 7:39 pm , SanDiegoSam said...

     Geir:

     I’m not stupid san Diego, and where do you get that from ?

     Hey don’t get your undies in a bunch. It’s your religion, not mine. I don’t believe any of it in the first place.

     But the Kalachakra “Armageddon” takes place in 2424 AD. No ifs, ands or buts about it. And you don’t get a vote.

     As to the claim that you are “not stupid”… I think that while the jury may be out on that, we do not think of you as stupid. We think of you as insane.
308. On November 18th, 2009 at 7:58 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     insane is you
     crazies don’t look at what they say
     u just said kalachakra is not ur religion but that you can also assert what it says, means and is about concerning a special aspect of it.
     no need for a jury u’re stupid.
     u’re a sorry ass
     why u got ur knickers in knots ?
     obama falling make you sad ?
     cry u’ll get over it
     he’s just about over now
     matter of time now
     congress’ll nail him
     u don’t know when kalachakra is
     i do and i’ll not tell u
     u’re an unworthy correspondant for it
     the world will see it in the headline news
     it’s already being broadcast obama is toast
     and he’s the arch-evil of all faiths
     so everyone knows by now
     read the signs
     sorry u’re so concerned about it
309. On November 18th, 2009 at 8:04 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     crackpot san diego
310. On November 18th, 2009 at 10:28 pm , Sharon 2 said...

     http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2009/11/would_us_need_to_read_bin_lade.html
311. On November 19th, 2009 at 2:22 am , Sharon 2 said...

     Sorry Phil. I didn’t see you already had a video. You can delete my link or leave it for the transcript.
312. On November 19th, 2009 at 5:02 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Video of NJ Rep. Garrett talking to constituents, and agreeing with birth people.

     The person tells him 30 to 40 % of the voters believe Obama is not a legal American and Garrett repeats it, going on to emphatically say “Let’s say that’s [squarely] 40% who believe that.”

     So, it’s clear why both Nathan Deal and Scott Garrett are jumping on board the birthwagon, is because it’s their constituents who wish for that. And as usual the latter are pushing them to ACT !

     I don’t think we have to keep on whipping this dead-horse of an issue.
     The end-of-time message is everywhere. Obama falling will be an eartquake worldwide and it IS THE END-OF-TIMES.
     Not the physical end in the film, but a psychologocal end, and the disappointment of everything Obama represents…which was all the Leftist dreams of an Utopia.

     Obama is IMPERFECTION NOT UTOPIA
313. On November 19th, 2009 at 9:20 am , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     http://www.reuters.com/article/mediaNews/idUSHKG21373820091104

     Obama’s brother emerges in China with novel
     By James Pomfret

     GUANGZHOU, China, Nov 4 (Reuters) – U.S. President Barack Obama’s half-brother made a rare appearance on Wednesday in southern China, his home for seven years, to launch a novel he says draws on his painful childhood under an abusive father.

     Mark Okoth Obama Ndesandjo — who had the same, late, father as the U.S. President — has kept a low public profile since reports surfaced last year that he was living and working in the southern Chinese capitalist and manufacturing haven of Shenzhen, around an hour’s train ride from Hong Kong.

     After repeatedly shunning media attention, Ndesandjo’s first major public appearance to launch his debut novel comes less than two weeks before the U.S. president travels to China for the first time.

     While he said his work, “Nairobi to Shenzhen” is a fictional account, it started off nearly 10 years ago as an autobiography and “reflects many experiences in my own life as a child brought up in Kenya” including a troubled relationship with his father.

     “My mother used to say of my father, he’s a brilliant man but a social failure,” Ndesandjo told reporters at a press conference in Guangzhou, near his adopted city of Shenzhen.

     “I remember times in my house when I would hear screams and I would hear my mother’s pain.” His American mother Ruth was his father’s third wife.

     “My skin had turned hard emotionally for so many years because of what I’d seen my mother go through,” said Ndesandjo, who is slim and bears an appearance similar to the president.

     Ndesandjo’s book details how the protagonist, David, made an improbable journey to China in 2001 just after the September 11th attacks, inspired by his “growing love for a beautiful Chinese woman and a young orphan”, and reflects Ndesandjo’s own marriage to a young Chinese woman and his charitable work for Chinese orphans.

     He was less forthright about his relationship with his famous brother, however, saying that they are in touch and an upcoming autobiography, for which he still hasn’t found a publisher, would give a fuller account of their family background and ties.

     “We’re family, I love my family,” said the crew-cut Ndesandjo, who wore a burgundy bandana and professes a love for the piano, Chinese calligraphy and classic works of Chinese literature.

     “I was so proud of my brother Barack,” he said of his sibling’s becoming the first African-American U.S. president.

     At a news conference in which he would only take five written questions drawn from a box, he avoided any mention of politics or U.S.-China relations but said Americans could learn from China’s culture and deep-rooted family ties.

     “China is about family … there is a tremendous, wonderful sense of family here.”

     Ndesandjo gave a sense of his personality quirks and a latent flamboyant streak during the conference. He sprinkled his answers with references to Tolstoy and the Chinese literary classic “A Dream of the Red Mansion”, also speaking of passion for music as a “universal language”.

     Reporters shown a video of a piano performance by the diamond-earring wearing Ndesandjo, in which he tickled the ivories for a catchy tune “Viper’s Drag” by Fats Waller.

     The book, whose cover depicts a dead tree against a red background, will donate 15 percent of its proceeds to charity.

     “I wanted to be known as a writer, not for my relationship to the President,” said Ndesandjo, who speaks with an American lilt. (Editing by Jerry Norton)

     Geir: This is the real Jewish brother. As Obama is the Antichrist this confirms that the Antichrist is Jewish. Looks like he’s Communist too.
314. On November 19th, 2009 at 1:21 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     http://www.nbclosangeles.com/entertainment/television/Dobbs-Obamas-Not-The-Devil-But-70269292.html

     Dobbs: Obama’s “Not The Devil, But…”
     Ousted CNN anchor makes key distinction under questioning by Bill O’Reilly

     Departed CNN newsman Lou Dobbs made it relatively clear that he does NOT think President Obama is the devil.

     The revelation came in an interview with Fox gab king Bill O’Reilly, who failed to trip up Dobbs with the tricky question about President Obama possibly being the anti-Christ Monday night.

     After sandbagging Dobbs with softball questions, O’Reilly zeroed in at the end of his interview on “The O’Reilly Factor” Monday night. “Final question: Barack Obama, is he the devil?” he asked.

     “He’s not the devil,” Dobbs replied thoughtfully, “but he is certainly a man who is right now not making it easy to understand why he’s making the public-policy choices that he is.”

     Geir: “RELATIVELY CLEAR”
     Not completely clear. What he was trying to say was that in fact Obama is the Antichrist and Unholy Trinity (First, Second Beasts and Satan.)
315. On November 19th, 2009 at 5:39 pm , Black Lion said...

     Ah the Bush years….The gift that keeps on giving….I guess the cover up can only last for so long….And this is the type of Administration that led to many of the problems we had and still do have in this country…And these people are who the birthers wish were still in charge…

     “The federal judge who helped draft Justice Department memos on torture has set up a legal defense fund to pay the costs of defending against possible disciplinary or impeachment proceedings. Jay Bybee, a U.S. Court of Appeals judge in Las Vegas, quietly set up the fund last July following widespread news reports that he and a former deputy, John Yoo, were the focus of a long-running investigation by the Justice Department’s internal ethics unit, the Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR), over their role in crafting the memos.”

     “As NEWSWEEK reported last February, the initial draft of the report, completed during the waning days of the Bush administration, concluded that Bybee (at the time assistant attorney general in charge of the Office of Legal Counsel) and Yoo may have violated their professional obligations as lawyers when they drafted a controversial Aug. 1, 2002, memo on torture.”

     http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/declassified/archive/2009/11/19/torture-memo-author-sets-up-defense-fund-to-fight-possible-impeachment.aspx
316. On November 19th, 2009 at 7:38 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     85% of Americans believe in God (not me though).

     You can’t deny the religious nature of people and the Antichrist, Apocalypse and end of times mythologies cannot be taken away from people just by some Marxist doctrine.

     Marx was a believer in his own twisted way, he quotes the book of revelations word for word throughout his “Das Kapital” and you know what Charlie marx thought ?
     He thought he was the messiah yeeah !
     And the paradise would be the “workers paradise” when they’d all elevated in the air and disappeared. Hahaha !
     Moron !

     Seeing Obama as very bad news and that that news take all the colours of religious revelation is a thing no one on earth can prevent.

     Live with it, this is the Age of Aquarius, like in the film “Hair” and religion will have a big comeback and be this age’s heart and core. It’s the New Age. Many false christs and false prophets will come but the pure truth will rule.

     Obama is bad news.
317. On November 20th, 2009 at 10:44 am , bystander said...

     Geir you are a genius – your idiotic ravings have managed to kill off this board. Anyone checking here for the first time would run a mile from your absurd fact-free drivel – you have managed to do what the obots failed to do – scare the right wingers away. Cheers!
318. On November 20th, 2009 at 11:36 am , bob strauss said...

     bystander, Is that the goal of obots, to “kill off this board”? Is that why Black Lion,Sam, and others blog here?
319. On November 20th, 2009 at 12:21 pm , misanthropicus said...

     Miserable lot are you, Obamatons – you keep gesticulating and explaining what a dwarfingly righteous decision Obama and Holder took when bringing the terros law suit to NYC, and holler that’s your consumming sense of justice and fondness for this nation’s well-being that makes you doing this.

     It’s your base sycophancy for the Bower & Deliberator in-chief (augmented by you deep hatred for America), that make you try to inflict your theories here, and elsewhere – yet the energy you spend on this, you crew of twerps, doesn’t pay back -

     The Deliberator’s numbers keep sinking, and now, after Obama’s suicidal decision (thanks lord for giving him the opportunity to paint himself in this corner!), simply he hasn’t been left with even one area in which his actions are regarded as positive by Americans.
     To sum up:
     - foreign affairs = ridiculous, incompetent, if not seditious -
     - home affairs = absurd, incompetent, if not seditious –

     Sometimes, you gang of Obamatons, after doing a few gigs here, you try to display a triumphant attitude – not surprising, since HYENAS DO LAUGH -

     Yet awful is the future for the Bower, and for his crew of jesters (that’s you), as well –
     Bellow is Krauthammer’s “Travesty In New York” – not many unknown things in his piece, yet it is good to keep reminding everyone what disgrace Obama has generated -

     http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/11/20/travesty_in_new_york_99224.html
320. On November 20th, 2009 at 12:40 pm , bystander said...

     Bob – I have no idea why anyone blogs here. But as I believe birther blogs do an enormous amount of harm, I am glad to see them dwindling away or re-focusing on other issues.
321. On November 20th, 2009 at 1:59 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     bystander, you’re so unhappy this forum dwindles eh !
     Why ?
     Was this your “whipping post” to show off your intellect to the illiterate mob ?

     Sure must be painful to be proven an idiot eh, by ?

     I’ll tell you, my stupid Marxist friend, in the Bible… that your idol Marx quoted non-stop from,… it says that in the Tribulation, many will fall and some will even be arrested, but that they will further spread the news of the Apocalypse and revelation inside the jail, and we’re seeing this happen, this forum is aching, Rev. Mannings is being investigated, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANaRAv9EVH4 Orly Taitz is fined, Lou Dobbs is fired.

     You’re suffering by, but endure it, it’s for the good cause, it’s getting Obama jailed, revealing his Abomination and then having him punished as should be done for frauding the nuclear secrets on fake ID which is death by injecting by lawful legal book-procedure. Obama cannot do things that the law does not allow.

     The Apocalypse is a matter of hours not days or months now. Did you know the end-of-times is the talk of the day now, with a film ruling the box-office which speaks about that ?

     Appropriate for Antichrist bashers like me, eh genius ? Vampire-hunting season is up !
322. On November 20th, 2009 at 3:40 pm , Black Lion said...

     “Everyone knows that the bloodthirsty blowhard — whom officials often refer to by his initials, KSM — is never going to see the light of day. The uproar is really about the word “war.” Outrage is being voiced by those who worry that Holder and President Obama are abandoning the Bush-era doctrine of a “war on terrorism” that must at all times be conducted by military means…

     It’s ironic that many of the officials and commentators who are so upset about the decision to give KSM a civilian trial were also quick to call the Fort Hood killings an act of terrorism. If the suspect, Maj. Nidal Hasan, is indeed a terrorist — and not just a deranged man who snapped — then his awful rampage helps demonstrate my point. Hasan reportedly considered the U.S. military deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan a war against Islam, at one point arguing that Muslim soldiers should be excused from combat as conscientious objectors. In other words, he apparently bought at least part of the jihadist line. If killing a terrorist in Kandahar creates one in Killeen, we’ll never make progress.”

     http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/19/AR2009111903433.html
323. On November 20th, 2009 at 3:42 pm , Black Lion said...

     “Rush Limbaugh stated on his radio program Thursday that several polls have shown President Obama’s job approval rating to be below 50%, while Gallup’s has not. Limbaugh then stated: “Gallup has it [Obama’s job approval rating] just teetering there on the little teeter-totter at 50%, and they’re doing everything they can, they’re upping the sample of black Americans, to keep him up at 50% in the Gallup Poll.”

     This statement is a complete and inexplicable fabrication. Gallup has a 70-year history of providing unbiased, scientific measures of public attitudes. Gallup is not now, nor has it ever, modified its data in order to achieve any desired result.”

     http://pollingmatters.gallup.com/2009/11/response-to-rush-limbaughs-claim.html
324. On November 20th, 2009 at 4:04 pm , Black Lion said...

     misanthropicus says:
     November 20, 2009 at 12:21 pm

     Miserable lot are you, Obamatons – you keep gesticulating and explaining what a dwarfingly righteous decision Obama and Holder took when bringing the terros law suit to NYC, and holler that’s your consumming sense of justice and fondness for this nation’s well-being that makes you doing this.

     It’s your base sycophancy for the Bower & Deliberator in-chief (augmented by you deep hatred for America), that make you try to inflict your theories here, and elsewhere – yet the energy you spend on this, you crew of twerps, doesn’t pay back -

     The Deliberator’s numbers keep sinking, and now, after Obama’s suicidal decision (thanks lord for giving him the opportunity to paint himself in this corner!), simply he hasn’t been left with even one area in which his actions are regarded as positive by Americans.
     To sum up:
     - foreign affairs = ridiculous, incompetent, if not seditious -
     - home affairs = absurd, incompetent, if not seditious –

     Sometimes, you gang of Obamatons, after doing a few gigs here, you try to display a triumphant attitude – not surprising, since HYENAS DO LAUGH -

     Yet awful is the future for the Bower, and for his crew of jesters (that’s you), as well –
     Bellow is Krauthammer’s “Travesty In New York” – not many unknown things in his piece, yet it is good to keep reminding everyone what disgrace Obama has generated -
     ____________________________________________________________________
     Wow! Referencing Krauthammer as some sort of opinion is funny. Has he ever written an article that was not critical of Obama or any other Democrat? His literary fellatios of Conservatives like Bush, Palin, and others are well known….

     However misa, the President of the United States, or the “Bower & Deliberator in-chief” as you call him made the correct decision. Of course you won’t agree because you have been programmed and brainwashed to agree to the opposite of whatever the President recommends or decides.

     And interesting side note regarding the FOX and right made up contoversy regarding the President bowing to the leader of Japan, it seems like even FOX viewers did not have that much of an issue with it…

     “Despite a lot of complaining by conservatives, the American people don’t actually have any problem with President Obama bowing to the Emperor of Japan — and that’s according to the new Fox News poll.”

     “The numbers: Appropriate 67%, Never appropriate 26%. Even a majority of Republican respondents were okay with the bow, by a 53%-40% margin. Democrats weigh in at 84%-9%, and independents 62%-30%.”

     http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/americans-overwhelmingly-say-obama-bowing-to-japanese-emperor-was-appropriate—-even-in-a-fox-poll.php?ref=fpblg

     I guess we know why we did not see the poll results on FOX…

     But the Republicans are just returning to a familar script regarding the President, and of course misa is buying the company line…

     “It’s been a week since Attorney General Eric Holder announced that five terror suspects will be transferred from Guantanamo Bay to New York City to face trial. There are still a lot of questions to be answered about logistics, and it will likely be months before the first suspect sets foot in a federal courtroom.

     Republicans have already told us what’s going to happen, though: If you let President Obama have his way, you will die.

     The GOP has returned to a familiar line on Obama and national security in the days since Holder’s announcement. It’s time to be afraid again, they say, hearkening back to the days of duct tape and Orange alerts even some Republicans thought they left behind on Election Day 2008.”

     So grab an assault rifle and keep the phone number for Operation TIPS close — here are the four ways Republicans say Obama is putting your life at risk.

     1. Surrendering In The War On Terror
     2. Daring The Terrorists To Attack Us Again
     3. Allowing Muslims To Walk Around Like “Regular” Americans
     4. Trading Safety for Good paying Government Jobs”

     http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/fear-factor-the-four-ways-republicans-say-obama-will-kill-you-now.php?ref=dcblt

     Kind of like the color coded Bush alert system…
325. On November 20th, 2009 at 5:05 pm , misanthropicus said...

     More grief for Obama and Holder – and the dems’ ship is steadily careening & taking water.

     Breitbart released a new Los Angeles ACORN tape, this time the actors asking for support from ACORN to start a children prostitution ring (income thereof to be used for funding a yet to be triggered political career – of course, on Democrat lines) – and the ACORN lady, one Lovell Stewart went for it!

     And this in one of the public-funded Los Angeles offices of ACORN – now Breitbart’s shot over the Democrats’ bow: if Holder doesn’t start an offficial DOJ in this ACORN matter, this and MANY OTHER, UNSEEN YET TAPES WILL HIT THE INTERNET RIGHT FOR THE 2010 ELECTORAL CAMPAIGN TIMING -

     Good job, and squeeze those rats – anyway Holder is too busy adding the acquittal of the New York terros to his previous accomplishments, the release of the porto-rican terros and of the black panthers -

     Lord, proud I am that I am not a spineless sycophantic Democrat swallowing the swill offered by the Bower & Deliberator in-chief!

     Great ACORN recording showing perfectly well the gook in which liberals (Obamatons y compris) wallow:

     http://biggovernment.com/2009/11/20/breitbart-to-ag-holder-investigate-acorn-or-well-release-more-tapes-just-before-2010-election/
326. On November 20th, 2009 at 5:37 pm , Black Lion said...

     misanthropicus says:
     November 20, 2009 at 5:05 pm

     And this in one of the public-funded Los Angeles offices of ACORN – now Breitbart’s shot over the Democrats’ bow: if Holder doesn’t start an offficial DOJ in this ACORN matter, this and MANY OTHER, UNSEEN YET TAPES WILL HIT THE INTERNET RIGHT FOR THE 2010 ELECTORAL CAMPAIGN TIMING -
     __________________________________________________________________
     It is hilarious how the wingnuts try and make ACORN into some sort of nefarious group that can affect anything it wants. They should be the bad guys in the next Dan Brown or Vince Flynn book. First of all Breibart has had a hard on for ACORN for awhile. And after all of this he maybe finds 4 offices that may have committed a crime? What about all of the other offices? There are over 3000. So far we have less that 1% that may have committed a crime? Wow, Holder should really get right on that.

     The GOP has been using ACORN to scare everyone. When Norm Coleman lost, it was ACORN. When Owens beat Hoffman he pulled the ACORN card. The pathetic fearmongering is hilarious. When things aren’t going well for the GOP they pull the ACORN attack out of their bag of tricks…When we see some legally admissible proof, and these tapes are not legally admissible, then lets talk. Why do you think that they are all released to FOX? It is pure political pandering…But FOX is acustomed to using doctored tapes to support their points, so why should this be any different.
327. On November 20th, 2009 at 5:39 pm , Black Lion said...

     Republican strategis Cheri Jacobs said on MSNBC that the KSM trial will be a “referendum on torture.” If only. Evidently, she was riffing on her piece this morning in The Hill in which she compared KSM to OJ Simpson and accused the Obama administration of having the trials in NYC in order to get a liberal jury to acquit Khalid Sheik Mohammed because they hate Bush and are trying to distract from their failed prsidency:

     Obama will retread his “blame Bush” message to shift attention from his own failures. We will be implored to feel sympathy for al Qaeda after dramatic testimony of terrorists undergoing enhanced interrogation techniques. What we won’t hear are the far more horrific details of the deaths of thousands of Americans killed on Sept. 11, 2001. And, sadly, an American defense attorney will object to descriptions of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed putting his sword to the throat of Wall Street Journal reporter Danny Pearl, slicing open his neck and beheading him, leaving his pregnant wife widowed and his unborn son fatherless. An American judge may be compelled to sustain the objection.

     War crimes are uniquely brutal. They require a unique form of justice. Obama and Holder have confidence in war commissions for some terrorists, but not for others. Why? Is Obama preparing to exploit the deaths of 3,000 Americans killed by an act of war in order to score politically with yet more “anti-Bush” campaign camouflage? For a juror, will a guilty vote on an al Qaeda terrorist who was waterboarded seem like support for George W. Bush and Dick Cheney — and a vote against Obama?

     We are at war. Holder acknowledged that fact at Wednesday’s Senate Judiciary Committee hearing. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and his fellow enemy combatants are war criminals, yet Obama and Holder have decided these terrorists are more like O.J. than Osama. Remember what happened to justice by a jury of peers with O.J. Simpson.
     I don’t think Sarah Palin could have made a worse argument. But nevermind — in the 24 -addled minds of wingnuts, their violent bloody fantasies are all fact and should be recognized in any court of law as a form of “truth” beyond a reasonable doubt. Pornographic violence shall set you free. OJ and Osama, a tainted jury of Obama worshippers. All we need is Oprah and the wingnuts would pass out from the biggest “O” of their lifetime.

     I’m beginning to wonder if this was a good idea too but obviously not for those reasons. The problem is that everyone who’s defending these trials is saying that there is no possible way that KSM and the others won’t be put to death at the end, which basically translates into the idea that these are going to be kangaroo courts with a pre-determined outcome. That doesn’t exactly promote the basic tenet of out justice system — innocent until proven guilty. (Chris Matthews went crazy after Jerry Nadler used the words “alleged” to describe the prisoners.)

     I get that Holder says they will receive the maximum punishment — he’s the prosecutor. That’s what they say. But rather than saying something like “we have faith in the rule of law” or that “justice will prevail,” everyone else is indicating that the trial is just a silly formality as well. A little bit of sober respect for the process would go a long way right now. Otherwise, you really can’t blame even decent people of principle (as opposed to twisted political opportunists) for wondering if the “show” actually is worth doing.

     http://www.digbysblog.blogspot.com/
328. On November 20th, 2009 at 6:06 pm , bystander said...

     Geir you are so stupid you can’t understand a simple post. No, I am not unhappy this blog is dwindling – I am delighted.

     As for you Geir, have you had a single interested response to your 50 plus antichrist posts? No? wonder why that is. Have you talked to any real people recently? Have you left your basement? Are you off your meds? When you are too much of a loony for the wingnuts, you need to seriously rethink where you are going with this.

     Actually, all joking aside, I think you are mentally ill and need help. Talk to someone.
329. On November 20th, 2009 at 6:37 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     bystander,
     “talk to someone”
     I’m talking to you but you’re stupid.
     could you help me ?
     be a little less stupid.
     u don’t actually get any of my posts do you ?
     Marx quotes the book of revelations in his work continuously extensively and exhaustively.
     u don’t know what i just said right ?
     u’re like the planet niburu eh !
     way out there
     are u
     1. crazy
     2. on meds
     3. a retarded autist like rainman ?

     can u say anything relating to what is said to u or u live with a bag on ur head ?
     moron !

     i think u’re both crazy weird and stupid
     try living in khazakhstan next time
     feel better there
     u’re not feeling good bec u’re stupid
     not my problem

     OBAMA IN JAIL SHOULD MAKE U FEEL GOOD NOT BAD
     rejoice this is good times folks not bad
     don’t listen to doomsday sayers like bystander
     he stands by and things pass him by
330. On November 20th, 2009 at 9:21 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE BL:

     [...] When we see some legally admissible proof, and these tapes are not legally admissible, then lets talk. [...]
     * BL, you made my day! So it’s not whether it’s true or not, that doesn’t matter – it’s O’Keefe, Breitbart or Fox who don’t have the standing to ask the DOJ to take action on how some publicly funded institutions are doing criminal side work.
     I think I heard this line of argumentation coming from you Obamatons when discussing Obama’s illegitimacy –

     * [...] Why do you think that they are all released to FOX? It is pure political pandering. [...]
     * Because Fox is the only honest TV network in the country – the rest of MSM is a collection of sycophantic liberals who wouldn’t touch this story -

     [...] But FOX is acustomed to using doctored tapes to support their points, so why should this be any different. [...]
     * There aren’t greater reallity forgerers (at least when it comes to liberal causes) than CNN and the rest of the MSM

     That’s why people trust Fox – and MSNBC has a county size audience -
     And this demographic amplifies, favoring FOX -

     Best regards -
331. On November 21st, 2009 at 12:18 am , Black Lion said...

     misanthropicus says:
     November 20, 2009 at 9:21 pm

     Because Fox is the only honest TV network in the country – the rest of MSM is a collection of sycophantic liberals who wouldn’t touch this story -
     ___________________________________________________________________
     You’re a funny guy misa. FOX honest? If there was ever a canard it is using FOX and news in the same sentence. They have been caught being dishonest more times that we can count. But that doesn’t surprise me that you follow them. You are one of the sheeple. You have the talking heads on FOX tell you what to think. Can you imagine if a liberal “investigator” had threatened to blackmail the Attorney General of the US? You guys on the right would be attempting to eviserate him.

     Here is the history of FOX…

     http://mediamatters.org/research/200911110019

     “On his Fox News show, Sean Hannity misleadingly aired video from the 9-12 March on Washington while discussing Rep. Michele Bachmann’s (R-MN) much smaller November 5 anti-health care reform rally to claim that “twenty-thousand plus” people showed up to Bachmann’s protest. Hannity’s video switch-up — which Jon Stewart highlighted on The Daily Show — is just the latest example of Fox News hosts’ extensive history of deceptively using video and photos to advance a false or misleading story line.”

     “As Stewart noted, Hannity aired video of the 9-12 rally while he was interviewing Bachmann on his November 5 show about an “Emergency House Call” rally that she and other GOP members held that day to protest Democrats’ health care reform bill. Hannity said, “Twenty-thousand plus people showed up. Were you as surprised as I was?” Bachmann replied that “estimates are anywhere between 20 and 45,000 people had assembled.” While she was speaking, Hannity interspersed actual footage from Bachmann’s rally, with footage from the 9-12 rally, which reportedly drew 70,000 people. According to MSNBC, “Three Capitol Hill police officers all guessed that the crowd numbered at about 4,000″ in attendance for Bachmann’s protest.”

     “This afternoon, Fox News host Gregg Jarrett proudly announced that Sarah Palin is “continuing to draw huge crowds while she’s promoting her brand new book. Take a look at — these are some of the pictures just coming into us.” But the pictures that the network chose to display on-air appeared to be old file footage of Palin rallies from the 2008 presidential campaign. Individuals in the crowd are seen holding McCain/Palin signs, and others are holding pom-poms and cheering wildly. “There’s a crowd of folks,” an enthused Jarrett observed, referring to the old footage.”

     http://thinkprogress.org/2009/11/18/fox-crowd-shot-palin/

     Yes we have many examples of FOX being fair and balanced and showing their lack of integrity. Unbelievable.
332. On November 21st, 2009 at 11:56 am , misanthropicus said...

     For all Obamatons interested in The Melting Of The Obama-man event:

     Obama looks more and more like a butter statue in an oven.
     And it’s not the conservatives who are withering him, it’s his liberals – and it’s not because issues, but because he’s so unfit for the job –
     From – of all! the Daily Beast, Tina Brown’s outfit:

     “Obama, the Un-decider”/by Lee Siegel
     * The president’s approach to the 9/11 trials offers something for everyone—and decisions on nothing. Obama may be the anti-Bush, Lee Siegel argues—but he’s failing to govern. *

     Lord Acton once wrote that in a political system’s success lie the seeds of its eventual decline. Lately, it seems that President Obama’s grandiose image of himself as a paragon of democratic virtue is hastening the process of democratic decay.

     The Obama administration’s approach to the 9/11 trials is emblematic of what you might call Obama’s egalitarian faux-democracy, in which the illusion of responding to every side in a debate undercuts the democratic process of actually arriving at a decision.

     Call it the American Idol style of governing—except that no possibility ever gets voted out of the competition.

     Consider the way Obama is handling the trials. First, you have the president and Attorney General Eric Holder wanting to try Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other men in a federal court in New York City. Then you have their stated policy of trying other accused terrorists before a military tribunal. Finally, there is Obama’s declared intention to hold some prisoners in detention indefinitely, without trial or tribunal. [...]

     More fun@
     http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2009-11-20/obama-the-un-decider/?cid=hp:mainpromo6
333. On November 21st, 2009 at 1:41 pm , Benaiah said...

     Hugobama praises [Nidal Malik Hasan] “Carlos the Jackal”
     http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1258705153335&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

     Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Friday night defended the alleged terrorist mastermind Carlos the Jackal, saying the Venezuelan imprisoned in France was an important “revolutionary fighter” who supported the cause of the Palestinians.

     The Venezuelan president praised Carlos – whose real name is Ilich Sanchez Ramirez – during a speech saying: “I defend him. It doesn’t matter to me what they say tomorrow in Europe.”

     Ramirez gained international notoriety during the 1970s and 80s as the alleged mastermind of a series of bombings, killings and hostage dramas. He is serving a life sentence in France for the 1975 murders of two French secret agents and an alleged informant.

     “They accuse him [Hasan] of being a terrorist, but Carlos [Hasan] really was a revolutionary fighter,” Chavez said during a televised speech to socialist politicians from various countries, who applauded.

     In his speech, Chavez also sought to defend other leaders he said are wrongly labeled “bad guys” internationally, including Zimbabwe’s Robert Mugabe and Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Chavez called both of them brothers and said he now wonders whether Ugandan dictator Idi Amin was truly as brutal as he was reputed to be.

     “We thought he was a cannibal,” Chavez said, referring to Amin, whose regime was notorious for torturing and killing suspected opponents in the 1970s. “I have doubts. … I don’t know, maybe he was a great nationalist, a patriot.”

     Chavez has previously called Ramirez a friend, and a controversy erupted in 1999 after the leftist leader confirmed he had written a letter to him in prison, in response to a note from Ramirez.

     Chavez’s remarks on Friday were among his most strident in support of Ramirez. He said he believes Ramirez was unfairly convicted, and called him “one of the great fighters of the Palestine Liberation Organization” at the time.

     Ramirez was captured in Sudan in 1994, and whisked in a sack to Paris by French agents. He was convicted three years later.

     He is also accused of having a role in two 1982 bombings – on a Paris-Toulouse train and outside the Paris office of an Arab-language newspaper – and is suspected in two other train bombings on December 31, 1983.

     Chavez did not refer to any of the accusations against Ramirez, but suggested the Venezuelan is paying a price for backing the Palestinians’ cause – which Chavez also supports.

     Venezuela broke off diplomatic ties with Israel in January to protest Operation Cast Lead in the Gaza Strip, and since then Chavez has often traded verbal barbs with Israeli officials.

     On Friday, he protested remarks by President Shimon Peres, who predicted during a visit to Argentina that the people of Venezuela and Iran will make their leaders disappear before too long.

     “Talking about Chavez, among other things he said he will soon disappear – just like that, which has different connotations,” Chavez said. “Imagine if one of us said something similar talking about him or them – any of them, the ‘good guys.’”
334. On November 21st, 2009 at 2:22 pm , misanthropicus said...

     TO: Siserda, Sue, Brygenon, SanDiegoSam and all other Obamatons who now recover under their humid rocks after exhausting their brains defending Obama’s decision to bring the terros trial to NYC -

     Every hour brings more and more scorn and disgust for the Deliberator’s poisonous decision -
     Bellow is a WSJ piece written by one of the flight 93 victim’s father who assisted at Holder’s testifying in front of the senatorial committee.
     Boy, pround I am that I am not a slave on the liberals’ plantation like you, guys – you certainly deserve the shame and scorn people regard you with -

     “Eric Holder’s Baffling KSM Decision – The attorney general’s Senate testimony this week did nothing to reassure the families of 9/11′s victims” By DAVID BEAMER -

     On Wednesday, the Senate Judiciary Committee met to question Attorney General Eric Holder about his decision to prosecute Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four others in criminal courts rather than military tribunals. As the father of Todd Beamer, who died on United Airlines Flight 93, I was able to attend that hearing. What transpired caused me great concern and shook my confidence in our current administration.

     The committee, chaired by Sen. Patrick Leahy (D., Vt.), displayed the division in our country not only visually—the Democrats were seated on the left and the Republicans on the right—but in every aspect of the proceedings. I expected that some members would agree with Mr. Holder and that others would have challenging questions about his decision. What I did not anticipate was the level of partisanship showed by the majority party. It seemed clear to me and other family members of victims that party loyalty is trumping concern for America’s security interests.

     In his opening remarks, Attorney General Holder acknowledged that these defendants could have been brought to trial in civilian court or before military tribunals. But he made the argument that trying them in our criminal courts would restore the integrity of our judicial system. He assured us that the trials would be quick, that the safety of New Yorkers would be paramount, that classified information would not be revealed, that the evidence was overwhelming, and that justice would be served.

     Then he said that the USS Cole attackers would be tried in military courts since they attacked our military. So how does Mr. Holder categorize the Pentagon? Inexplicably, he offered up the body count of 9/11, the fact that civilian deaths outnumbered military ones, as a rationale for his decision.

     Then the Republican members proceeded to ask Mr. Holder thoughtful questions. Some examples:

     How can we be assured that these enemies will be found guilty? Given that criminal courts are now the presumed venue for those captured on the battlefield, will soldiers need to read them their rights at the time of capture? Since you wish to make exceptions on a case-by-case basis to the presumed civil venue, don’t all those captured need to be read their rights and have the opportunity to remain silent? Won’t this venue expose intelligence to our enemies? Can our classified information really be secured? Can we in fact predict how the judge will rule? If these people are brought into the country will they get additional rights under immigration law? What if they claim asylum?

     The attorney general seemed bewildered in the face of these inquiries. Recurring themes in his responses included “I think,” and “I can’t imagine,” and “I am not an expert in immigration.”
     [...]”

     more @
     http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704888404574547681569546414.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsSecond
335. On November 21st, 2009 at 3:21 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     Here’s a epitome (summit) of stupidity.

     Making fun of Lou Dobbs who had the audacity to just ask for the ID of Obama, the man who has been graciously offered the power to blow us up 1000 times, with the nuclear bombs.

     Breaking News: The real story behind Dobbs’ abrupt departure: he is being deported!!!

     http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474977897813&grpId=3659174697241980&nav=Groupspace

     Breaking right now: Dobbs has been living in the United States illegally for the last 48 years. Immigration officials will be deport him to El Salvador within48 hours.

     Lou Dobbs’ birth certificate is fake! WHERE WAS HE BORN?!?!?!?!?!!?

     Geir: on and on the usual drivel.

     When you’re dumb it’s USUALLY for life.

     At the Apocalypse choose your side carefully. And stand by it. Don’t yield. Many false christs and false prophets will beckon to you. Stand up tall.
336. On November 21st, 2009 at 5:28 pm , misanthropicus said...

     The 9/11 terros will go free – the monkey wrenches are already flying in the machine:

     “Germany Concerned Its Evidence to Be Used to Back Death Penalty in 9/11 Trial” by AP/ Fox News -

     Justice Ministry [Germany] spokeswoman Katharina Jahntz on Saturday confirmed a report in Der Spiegel that a German observer would attend the trial to ensure that no evidence provided by Germany would be used to apply the death penalty.

     A German government official says the nation will send an observer to the upcoming trial in New York of the professed mastermind of the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks and four accused henchmen. [...]

     more @:
     http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/21/germany-concerned-evidence-used-death-penalty-trial/
     —————-*————-

     Obama and Holder have succeeded -
337. On November 21st, 2009 at 5:31 pm , Black Lion said...

     It’s not just me. Two colleagues with different perspectives — from each other’s, and sometimes from my own — marvel at how badly the mainstream American press distorted the picture of what happened during Barack Obama’s just-ended tour of Asia.

     “I find that the Washington reporters tend to be typically the most subject to this instant scorekeeping. This is part of the game of Washington reporting. They’re at the bleeding edge of this phenomenon that I think is distressing in terms of the approach of the press to serious questions. Everything is shot through this prism of short-term political calculation as opposed to thinking seriously about stuff. You can’t be an expert on every question, and so you’re part of the Washington press corps and if you’re really good and really diligent, you’re going to be expert maybe in a few things and one of those things might not be China.”

     Tish Durkin, who has written for the Atlantic from Iraq and elsewhere, arrived in China recently. The subhead on her new column for The Week gets across the point:

     “Even through a veil of censorship and propaganda, the Chinese people managed a clearer view of Obama’s visit than the US media did.”

     http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/11/manufactured_failure_2_the_pre.php
338. On November 21st, 2009 at 5:49 pm , Black Lion said...

     “[John] Shadegg [R-AZ] sniped, “I saw the mayor of New York today said ‘We’re tough. We can do it.’ Well mayor, how are you going to feel when it’s your daughter that’s kidnapped, at school, by a terrorist?”

     Say what you will about New Yorkers, but question our toughness, you will not.

     Whether a civil or military trial would provide the best chances of securing a conviction while simultaneously signaling to the world a righting of America’s moral compass is a fair debate. But questioning whether New York City can handle the trial is an insult.

     “And what galls us most is having watched for years as politicians like Shadegg used fear-mongering about 9/11 and the threat of attacks as a political tool. Former Mayor Rudy Giuliani used it to sidestep the extreme racial divisiveness he fostered in the city. Former President George W. Bush used it as a Trojan horse to ravage our civil liberties. Dick Cheney is still using it to shield his transgressions.”

     http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/21/opinion/21blow.html?_r=1&hp
339. On November 21st, 2009 at 6:24 pm , Black Lion said...

     misanthropicus says:
     November 20, 2009 at 5:05 pm
     More grief for Obama and Holder – and the dems’ ship is steadily careening & taking water.

     Breitbart released a new Los Angeles ACORN tape, this time the actors asking for support from ACORN to start a children prostitution ring (income thereof to be used for funding a yet to be triggered political career – of course, on Democrat lines) – and the ACORN lady, one Lovell Stewart went for it!

     [...] When we see some legally admissible proof, and these tapes are not legally admissible, then lets talk. [...]
     * BL, you made my day! So it’s not whether it’s true or not, that doesn’t matter – it’s O’Keefe, Breitbart or Fox who don’t have the standing to ask the DOJ to take action on how some publicly funded institutions are doing criminal side work.
     I think I heard this line of argumentation coming from you Obamatons when discussing Obama’s illegitimacy –
     _____________________________________________________________________________

     Misa, we don’t know whether or not its true. But for Breibart to try and blackmail the Justice Dept. and AG Holder is reprehensible. Breitbart and his cronies don’t have standing to make the Justice Dept do anything. The only so called evidence is these unauthenticated tapes. No different than one of the so called fake Kenyan BC’s. So I am not sure what your point is regarding this issue. Are you defending the right of Breitbart to try and blackmail the gov’t?

     What was even funnier was that Breitbart went on Hannity (FOX of course because no legitimate news network would air the tapes without authenticating it first) to claim that he was not trying to blackmail the Justice Department. I guess he forgets the definition of blackmail and extortion…

     blackmail: extortion or coercion by threats especially of public exposure or criminal prosecution.

     extort: to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal power.

     And what did Breitbart originally say?

     “There will be consequences if there isn’t an investigation into ACORN. The videos will be shown and at a particular moment. This ACORN investigation has been going on for two months and Hannah, James, and I have proven to be truth-tellers every step of the way, while the Association of Community Organizers for Reform Now has been proven time and again to be liars.”

     That seems like the definition of blackmail and extortion to me. So he is commiting a crime to try and expose a group that he claims is committing crimes? Interesting. And unethical. But ethics is not something that FOX and the birther anti-Obama wingnuts are worried about….

     And even more interesting was what O’Keefe had to say regarding his tapes…

     “In making public a video he withheld for more than two months, right-wing activist James O’Keefe finally acknowledged that a Los Angeles ACORN employee “would not assist us obtain a house for our illegal activities” — an admission that directly contradicts claims by his colleague Hannah Giles that no ACORN employees refused to help them. Moreover, O’Keefe’s claim in the video that the Los Angeles employee was the “only” ACORN employee who refused to help is contradicted by the fact that ACORN employees in two other cities contacted the police following their encounters with O’Keefe and Giles.”

     “Philadelphia and San Diego area ACORN employees contacted police after O’Keefe’s visits. Contrary to O’Keefe’s assertion that the Los Angeles ACORN worker “was the only ACORN employee in our nationwide investigation who would not assist us obtain a house for our illegal activities,” ACORN employees in Philadelphia and the San Diego area contacted the police following their encounters with O’Keefe and Giles.”

     http://clips.mediamatters.org/research/200911200044

     So this ACORN you and the your fellow conservatives are trying to hang on the President and other Democrats is a red herring. You use them to try and explain away why the President won and why guys like Hoffmann in NY-23 lost elections. You guys can’t accept the fact that maybe the hate filled ideology of the Bush/Cheney/Palin wing is turning off more Americans than you realize. It is funny how no matter what the argument ACORN is always mentioned. This threat by Brietbart is basically a right/FOX created issue to distract voters. Hopefully when they see all of the facts they won’t be conned.
340. On November 21st, 2009 at 10:16 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE BL Re the Acorn/ Breitbart tapes -

     We’ll see. By the way, it’s not only ACORN tapes, we’re talking also about Michelle’s “Whitey” tape as well – it’s ready to be loaded on the barrel -

     Best regards -
341. On November 21st, 2009 at 10:24 pm , jtx said...

     Here’s a video that’s short, enlightening, and funny:
342. On November 22nd, 2009 at 12:48 pm , Black Lion said...

     misanthropicus says:
     November 21, 2009 at 10:16 pm
     RE BL Re the Acorn/ Breitbart tapes -

     We’ll see. By the way, it’s not only ACORN tapes, we’re talking also about Michelle’s “Whitey” tape as well – it’s ready to be loaded on the barrel -

     Best regards -
     ________________________________________________________________________
     Misa, are you serious? Do you really believe that tape exists? If you do I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. The AIP, that claimed to have the tape was discredited. If that tape existed then we would have seen it. Just like if Breitbart actually had all of this evidence, he would not need to blackmail the Justice Department, he would just release all of them. He is bluffing. And anyone that believes that this will get some sort of traction that it will affect the President or the Democratic party, they are confused.

     Regards to you
343. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:17 pm , tminu said...

     “NBC, EASY AS 1,2,3!!”

     You get one point for
     Mom=US Citizen = 1 point
     Dad=US Citizen = 1 point
     Born in-country = 1 point

     Natural Born Citizen requires 3 points, only permutation not defined by 14th amendment, because 14th does not contain NBC anywhere.
     US Citizen requires only 1 or 2 points, or can be naturalized, defined by 14th amendment.

     Landrieau who just got a $300 million bribe for voting for embalmacare
     tried in 2004 for a constitutional amendment to expand the definition of natural born citizen to only requiring 1 point or 2 points.
     Amendment effort failed, so they just pushed through the illegal usurper anyway.

     So yes, there are two types of citizens, because a natural born citizen is also a citizen…and those two types are born-citizen and naturalized. However, that does not by any means imply that all born citizens are natural born citizens.

     You need three points for NBC.

     Got three points?

     Minor and WKA agree! Actual HOLDINGS!!
344. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:29 pm , tminu said...

     “It was in early May, 2008, when rumors of a tape of Michelle Obama ranting and raving and making remarks that were consistently called “stunning”. Then we heard the GOP already had this tape, and it was most likely Rudy Giuliani’s opposition research team that found it,

     The Michelle Obama Rant Tape was allegedly filmed between June 26th and July 1st, 2004, in Chicago, IL, at the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition Conference at the Sheraton Hotel in Chicago, specifically the women’s panel.

     Michelle Obama appeared as a panelist alongside Mrs. Khadijah Farrakhan and Mrs. James Meeks, wife of the hateful Rev. Meeks.

     For about 30 minutes, Michelle Obama launched into a rant about the evils of America, and how America is to blame for the problems of Africa. Michelle personally blamed President Clinton for the deaths of millions of Africans and said America is responsible for the genocide of the Tutsis and other ethnic groups. She then launched into an attack on “whitey”, and talked about solutions to black on black crime in the realm of diverting those actions onto white America. Her rant was fueled by the crowd: they reacted strongly to what she said, so she got more passionate and enraged, and that’s when she completely loses it and says things that have made the mouths drop of everyone who’s seen this.

     The “tape” is a DVD that Trinity United sold on its website, and possibly offered free for download up until March 2008 when Trinity’s site was scrubbed and the DVDs were no longer offered for sale.

     It’s also being reported that ABC-7 news anchors moderated a panel at the Conference that appears to be the one Michelle Obama participated in. If so, then it’s reasonable to believe ABC-7 in Chicago has footage from the panel discussion.”
     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6Kz-_IaFyU
     http://hillbuzz.blogspot.com/2008/06/whats-on-michelle-obama-rant-tape.html
     http://www.theobamafile.com/_images/Obama-TheGirls.jpg
345. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:30 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 3:17 pm
     *Natural Born Citizen requires 3 points,
     Monor and WKA agree*

     If you have read the Constitution, the 14th amendment and the Minor and Wong Kim Ark decisions, you can’t say that with a straight face. They say no such thing. It shows what kind of people the Obama deniers are that they deliberately and maliciously misrepresent US law and court decisions to support their positions when they can be easily verified to say no such thing. You count on stupid people who hate Obama to believe your unmitigated cr@p. Of course, you’d have to have the mentality and education of a 12 year old to buy into “NBC, easy as 1,2,3″ foolishness.

     You, tminu, are a liar.
346. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm , tminu said...

     LOL Sisecommie you’re such a pathetic loser.

     SISE ARE YOU A THREE POINT NBC???? LOL

     If you EVER made a single intellectual point you’d be worthy of commentary.
     You’re stuck at third grade playground insults.

     Try again, really push your gray matter, what little you have of it, into active mode…try eating some carbs!

     “Stupid fat Obamabot is no way to through life, son.”

     Freedom lovers cite references and holdings. Obamabot basement dwellers froth and drool and try to insult. Pathetic!
347. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:34 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 3:29 pm
     * DVDs were no longer offered for sale.*

     You are a liar. And a lazy, desperate one at that. Anyone who knows anything about birther-ology knows this one was debunked before the election. It is pathetic that you have become so desperate that you circle back and try to recycle year-old birther bullsh!t that even the birthers know is bullsh!t. You are to be pitied that your hatred runs so deep and you stoop so low. Even birthers will shun you.
348. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:38 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 3:34 pm
     *LOL Sise*

     You have confirmed that you are not smart enough to read on your own and grasp the meaning of the Constitution, the 14th amendment, nor the Minor or Wong Kim Ark. You are simply a sad little parrot that has picked up some nonsense from Leo’s and Mario’s sites and copying and pasting. You’re not simply deceitful, you’re gullible and malleable. Only a 3rd grade idiot would be excited about “NBC< easy as 1,2,3". Little play baby.
349. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:39 pm , tminu said...

     Michelle Obama “WHITEY HATER” patient-dumper embezzler is also a disbarred FORMER lawyer.

     HAHAHAHA INSURANCE FRAUD!

     What slimebuckets these people are.
350. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:41 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 3:39 pm
     *What slimebuckets these people are.*

     You sure are! Lying about the President and the First Lady. Sick and slimey.
351. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:45 pm , tminu said...

     Siseliar, you are the one who’s totally full of crap.

     This is Sise’s Theme Song: http://s0.ilike.com/play#Missy+Elliott:Get+Ur+Freak+On:45060:s31631275.8793810.8977571.0.1.71%2Cstd_31ec5f1d5b9106e2d8f7c1ae0680a57c

     Sise, the Early Years
352. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 pm , tminu said...

     Siseliar, you are the one who’s totally full of crap.
     MICHELLE OBAMA WAS COURT ORDERED INTO INACTIVE STATUS.
     COURT-ORDERED, NOT MICHELLE ORDERED

     HER PART TIME HOSPITAL BOARD POSITION FOR WHICH SHE HAD NO EXPERIENCE TRIPLED IN SALARY ONCE OBAMA BECAME SENATOR TO OVER $300,000

     SO MUCH FOR CARING ABOUT LOW INCOME PATIENTS

     SHE HAD THEM DUMPED AT OTHER HOSPITALS
353. On November 22nd, 2009 at 3:52 pm , tminu said...

     Sise defending Obama
     
354. On November 22nd, 2009 at 4:04 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 3:48 pm

     Liar Liar Liar. Another piece recycled debunked poo.tminu is so stupid he picks things that can be so easily checked and re-debunked.Desperation is a sad thing. Michelle Obama’s status is Voluntarily Inactive. Barack Obama’s status is Voluntarily Retired. Does your wife know how easily you lie?

     At this site:
     http://www.iardc.org/lawyersearch.asp
     Type in Radmer, Phillip, then click the name.
     Illinois Registration Status: Not authorized to practice law due to discipline.
     That’s an example of a disbarred attorney.

     Now do the same for Obama, Michelle.
     Illinois Registration Status: Voluntarily Inactive and not authorized to practice law.
355. On November 22nd, 2009 at 4:18 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE siseduermapierda Re tminu:

     [...] You are a liar. And a lazy, desperate one at that. Anyone who knows anything about birther-ology knows this one was debunked before the election. It is pathetic that you have become so desperate that you circle back and try to recycle year-old birther bullsh!t that even the birthers know is bullsh!t. You are to be pitied that your hatred runs so deep and you stoop so low. Even birthers will shun you. [...]

     Siserda, save you hystericals for later, ’cause you’ll badly need them:
     1) when it comes to desperation, even one who doesn’t know the issue you are pretending to answer (to tminu) will see in your rant only frustration and desperation -
     2) now, coming to the issue: the “whitey” tape, exactly like the “Khalidi” tape was seen, exists -
     3) what the timing of its release will be, no one knows – but Breitbart did a very good job challenging the DOJ in opening an inquiry of the ACORN under the menace of releasing more and OTHER tapes at the moment of his choice –
     4) desperation – do I need to remind you that dba Obama is inexorably slipping (as of today’s Gallup, at 48%!!!!!) and this is actually the reason behiond your barking left and right?

     Relax – the ACORN and “whitey” tapes will hit the fan, sooner or later, be sure of that –
     Now a consolation for you – visualize the NYT headline “Obama Went To China And All He’s Came Back With Is A T-shirt!” (and the Japanese people’s comment that he’s an unmannered boor).

     Have a nice Gallup polls reading -
356. On November 22nd, 2009 at 4:29 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     misanthropicus says:
     November 22, 2009 at 4:18 pm
     *the “whitey” tape*

     Ah yes, the mythical tape that was going to bring down the whole Obama campaign. aJust like any other evidence you’ve insisted exists, You’re never able to produce. You are reduced to recycling your old BS. You’re like foolish old men, you talk big about what you’ve got, but you can’t produce.
357. On November 22nd, 2009 at 4:37 pm , tminu said...

     9/11 Terrorists Will Use Trial For Propaganda

     Breitbart is reporting that the five Islamofascists facing trial in the Sept. 11 attacks will plead not guilty so that they can air their criticisms of U.S. foreign policy, the lawyer for one of the defendants said Sunday.

     Scott Fenstermaker, the lawyer for accused terrorist Ali Abd al-Aziz Ali, said the men would not deny their role in the 2001 attacks, but “would explain what happened and why they did it.”

     The U.S. Justice Department announced earlier this month that Ali and four other men accused of murdering who murdered nearly 3,000 people, including Muslims, in the nation’s deadliest terrorist attack will face a civilian federal trial just blocks from the World Trade Center site.

     Ali, also known as Ammar al-Baluchi, is a nephew of professed 9/11 mastermind Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

     Mohammed, Ali and the others will explain “their assessment of American foreign policy,” Fenstermaker said.

     “Their assessment is negative,” he said.

     Fenstermaker met with Ali last week at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. He has not spoken with the others but said the men have discussed the trial among themselves.

     Critics of Attorney General Eric Holder Barack Obama’s decision to try the men in a New York City civilian courthouse have warned that the trial would provide the defendants with a propaganda platform.

     Dean Boyd, a spokesman for the Department of Justice, said, “yada, yada, yada.”
     http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9C4N4M01&show_article=1
358. On November 22nd, 2009 at 4:39 pm , tminu said...

     Siseliar: COURT ORDERED INACTIVE NOT MICHELLE ORDERED INACTIVE
     HA HA HA

     NICE TRY

     AND YOU DIDN’T EVEN ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN HER EMBEZZLEMENT AND PATIENT DUMPING

     keep trying to defend your disbarred insurance fraud patient dumping embezzling whitee-hating wife of the resident

     it’s pathetic
359. On November 22nd, 2009 at 4:41 pm , tminu said...

     “SHHHHHHHHHHH, OBAMA’S TRIP TO ASIA WAS A TOTAL FING FAIL”

     Obama’s Asia Failure

     “Bruce Nussbaum writes: Sitting here in Singapore as Obama went through China and flew home from his 8-day trip to Asia, it is perhaps easier to see the true truth of his trip — it’s deep failure. The entire neo-liberal economic model promoted by the US over the past decades is now held in such disregard in Asia that Obama, representing the US system, must suffer from the model’s decline. Soft power, such as culture and economic models, is always a major component of projecting a nation’s power around the world. Right now Wall Street, Alan Greenspan and the Chicago-school of market mania has so undercut America’s standing in Asia by the horrible recession they caused, that even Obama’s popularity couldn’t overcome it’s negative impact.

     Obama came home empty-handed. He made little headway in his single most important mission — China’s revaluation of its currency, the yuan. A higher value for the yuan makes sense for the global economy, for the US economy and for the Chinese economy. But Obama couldn’t persuade Beijing of that because you can’t muscle your banker and China is America’s banker. And everyone in Asia knows this. You can feel the shift in the way people talk and in the way nation’s are beginning to accommodate China. Expect more visits from China’s growing blue-water fleet. Expect more Asian students studying in Chinese universities. Asian children are already beginning to learn Mandarin in a big way.

     I visited an old British Air Force base in Singapore today while I was out birding. It was a strange, nostalgic scene. Unless the US gets its act together and reverses it’s global decline, it may, one day soon, also be remember with nostalgia.”
     http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/NussbaumOnDesign/archives/2009/11/president_obama_7.html
360. On November 22nd, 2009 at 4:47 pm , tminu said...

     Michelle Malkin calls her the “FIRST CRONY”
     so corrupt she oozes criminal puss from the core
     case in point WALPIN, spoiled race baiter, hypocritical racist, exploitative, hates military, whitee
     she wears blood-red camo sleeveless cocktail dress w/fme heels to memorial services
     aqua blue bondage belt dress with nazi brownshirt boots to veteran’s day services, laughing
     http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0Bg/SwCwXTXhAtI/AAAAAAAADxs/zimH5RlMY9U/s320/michelle_obama_disgraceful.jpg
     of course lots of muslim green
     camel toe pants and http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0Bg/SkwpkIs-_II/AAAAAAAACp0/5qdEr9jX6Vc/s400/muchelle_too_much.jpg ugh she’s an EMBARRASSMENT

     http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0Bg/SvW3FZy7iCI/AAAAAAAADtc/q9AHSrqSiaQ/s320/hideous_michelle_obama.jpg
361. On November 22nd, 2009 at 4:55 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 4:39 pm

     Voluntarily inactive means Voluntary. Parse it however you like. YOU LIE>

     Does your wife know you write things like “camel toe” and “f me shoes” on the internet? You typed with one hand and pleasured yourself with the other when you wrote those things, didn’t you?
362. On November 22nd, 2009 at 4:59 pm , tminu said...

     Blood camo cocktail dress with big dangling earrings to really show her disrespect at a military funeral.
     http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3xyJDLYT0Bg/SsjzuCVQz_I/AAAAAAAADec/vtDu5OecFNg/s1600-h/muchelle_obama_blood_camo.jpg
363. On November 22nd, 2009 at 5:00 pm , tminu said...

     Siseliar, can’t stop yourself from your perversions can you?
     Truth is truth.

     Siseliar you’re so pathetic. The DISCIPLINARY CODE WAS FOR COURT-ORDERED INACTIVE. You know the score toots, she was looking at being dragged through proceedings, or she could bail. She bailed. She was guilty of insurance fraud, got busted, and that’s just the way it is.

     http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/12/25/michelleobamaardcrecord.jpg
364. On November 22nd, 2009 at 5:07 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 4:59 pm
     *Blood camo cocktail dress with big dangling earrings*

     She excites you. That’s why you write about her. You fantasize about her.
365. On November 22nd, 2009 at 5:11 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 5:00 pm

     Voluntary is Voluntary. There’s no mention of discipline.
     Still searching for pictures of the First Lady to turn you on?
     Does your wife know what you’re writing about our First Lady? What would your daughters say about their daddy searching for pictures that show the First Lady’s “camel toe”? You’re a nasty, dirty old man, aren’t you tminu?
366. On November 22nd, 2009 at 5:17 pm , tminu said...

     Sisesickoliar, nice try LOL. You’re not EVEN at third grade playground level.
     Michelle Obama’s DISCIPLINARY CODE WAS FOR COURT-ORDERED
     HA HA HA
     DISCIPLINARY CODE 770

     http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx
     OBAMA’S APPROVAL RATING TANKING WILDLY
     GALLUP SHOWS 48%

     http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_history
     Rasmussen has him “only” at NEGATIVE TEN APPROVAL INDEX

     http://www.state.il.us/court/SupremeCourt/Rules/Art_VII/

     Rule number 770..it is all about types of Discipine…and reasons for a lawyer to be disbarred

     See, Rule 756 is about voluntary inactive status, which simply costs $105/year, no biggie. That’s what you’d do if you were a lawyer wanting to go inactive, voluntarily without any extraneous forces.

     But Rule 770 is all about DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS. An attorney may be on “voluntary inactive status persuant to Rule 770″ but that is not the same as Rule 756, which is invoked purely on personal whim. Michelle’s ARDC report states: “No malpractice report required, as attorney is on court ordered inactive status.”

     Court ordered means court ordered, not Michelle ordered.
     If Michelle had ordered it, that would be via Rule 756. Michelle Obama is on “Court Ordered Inactive Status” pursuant to Rule 770, i.e. disciplinary rules, to avoid reporting of malpractice. Compelled to go voluntarily inactive would be the kindest description of this outcome.

     If she’d have wanted to go VOLUNTARY INACTIVE she’d have used Rule 756:
     http://www.state.il.us/court/SupremeCourt/Rules/Art_VII/artVII.htm#Rule770

     “(5) An attorney may advise the Administrator in writing that he or she desires to assume inactive status and, thereafter, register as an inactive status attorney. The annual registration fee for an inactive status attorney shall be $105. Upon such registration, the attorney shall be placed upon inactive status and shall no longer be eligible to practice law or hold himself or herself out as being authorized to practice law in this State, except as is provided in paragraph (j) of this rule. An attorney who is on the master roll as an inactive status attorney may advise the Administrator in writing that he or she desires to resume the practice of law, and thereafter register as active upon payment of the registration fee required under this rule and submission of verification from the Director of MCLE that he or she has complied with MCLE requirements as set forth in Rule 790 et seq. If the attorney returns from inactive status after having paid the inactive status fee for the year, the attorney shall pay the difference between the inactive status registration fee and the registration fee required under paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(4) of this rule. Inactive status under this rule does not include inactive disability status as described in Rules 757 and 758. Any lawyer on inactive disability status is not required to pay an annual fee.”
367. On November 22nd, 2009 at 5:18 pm , tminu said...

     Sisesickoliar, nice try LOL. You’re not EVEN at third grade playground level.
     Michelle Obama’s DISCIPLINARY CODE WAS FOR COURT-ORDERED
     HA HA HA
     DISCIPLINARY CODE 770

     http://www.state.il.us/court/SupremeCourt/Rules/Art_VII/

     Rule number 770..it is all about types of Discipine…and reasons for a lawyer to be disbarred

     See, Rule 756 is about voluntary inactive status, which simply costs $105/year, no biggie. That’s what you’d do if you were a lawyer wanting to go inactive, voluntarily without any extraneous forces.

     But Rule 770 is all about DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS. An attorney may be on “voluntary inactive status persuant to Rule 770″ but that is not the same as Rule 756, which is invoked purely on personal whim. Michelle’s ARDC report states: “No malpractice report required, as attorney is on court ordered inactive status.”

     Court ordered means court ordered, not Michelle ordered.
     If Michelle had ordered it, that would be via Rule 756. Michelle Obama is on “Court Ordered Inactive Status” pursuant to Rule 770, i.e. disciplinary rules, to avoid reporting of malpractice. Compelled to go voluntarily inactive would be the kindest description of this outcome.

     If she’d have wanted to go VOLUNTARY INACTIVE she’d have used Rule 756:
     http://www.state.il.us/court/SupremeCourt/Rules/Art_VII/artVII.htm#Rule770

     “(5) An attorney may advise the Administrator in writing that he or she desires to assume inactive status and, thereafter, register as an inactive status attorney. The annual registration fee for an inactive status attorney shall be $105. Upon such registration, the attorney shall be placed upon inactive status and shall no longer be eligible to practice law or hold himself or herself out as being authorized to practice law in this State, except as is provided in paragraph (j) of this rule. An attorney who is on the master roll as an inactive status attorney may advise the Administrator in writing that he or she desires to resume the practice of law, and thereafter register as active upon payment of the registration fee required under this rule and submission of verification from the Director of MCLE that he or she has complied with MCLE requirements as set forth in Rule 790 et seq. If the attorney returns from inactive status after having paid the inactive status fee for the year, the attorney shall pay the difference between the inactive status registration fee and the registration fee required under paragraphs (a)(1) through (a)(4) of this rule. Inactive status under this rule does not include inactive disability status as described in Rules 757 and 758. Any lawyer on inactive disability status is not required to pay an annual fee.”
368. On November 22nd, 2009 at 5:19 pm , tminu said...

     http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx
     OBAMA’S APPROVAL RATING TANKING WILDLY
     GALLUP SHOWS 48%

     http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/obama_administration/obama_approval_index_history
     Rasmussen has him “only” at NEGATIVE TEN APPROVAL INDEX
369. On November 22nd, 2009 at 5:23 pm , Geir (Gerhardt) Smith said...

     The birth issue is written of kindly first time by big UK paper: the Guardian.People can get very UPSET reading through the paper “drinking their morning tea” ! It looks like Scotland Yard is investigating him by the looks of the article.

     YUP ! Let’s see where this goes.

     http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/22/barack-obama-british-conspiracist

     It’s also roaring INSIDE THE US

     http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-obama-billboard-112009,0,2612065.story

     Anti-Obama billboard stirs controversy

     WHEAT RIDGE, Colo. – Call it Freedom of Speech. A billboard recently erected in Wheat Ridge compares President Barack Obama to a terrorist and questions his U.S. citizenship.

     The billboard, located at 4855 Miller Road, shows two cartoonish images of Obama wearing a Muslim turban and reads “PRESIDENT or JIHAD?”

     It also says “BIRTH CERTIFICATE – PROVE IT!” alluding to the conspiracy theory which claims Barack Obama was born in Kenya rather than Hawaii, which would disqualify him for the office of President.

     The words “WAKE UP AMERICA! REMEMBER FT. HOOD!” appear on the bottom of the billboard.

     The sign belongs to a car dealership.

     Geir: It links the Ft Hood killing and the birth issue, which is an explosive mix and brings the birth issue mainstream very fast. Smart move. The guy’s world famous now. People approve of it.
370. On November 22nd, 2009 at 5:51 pm , misanthropicus said...

     RE tminu RE Siseliar:

     [...] COURT ORDERED INACTIVE NOT MICHELLE ORDERED INACTIVE. HA HA HA. NICE TRY. AND YOU DIDN’T EVEN ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN HER EMBEZZLEMENT AND PATIENT DUMPING. [...]

     Two additions here:
     1) Michelle’s job after she quit was scrubbed – no more! Why? They said that she did an extraordinary job, she was inspiring, etc! (Indeed so, and here a character referrence: Blajo confirmed Michelle’s merits when dealing with Rahm about the Illinois senatorial appointment: “… and I also want for Patricia a job like Michelle used to have at the hospital.”)
     2) When Michelle got her rise of more than 100 K (after hubby got elected) she was the ONLY one in the staff that got a big rise – all other people got just a few grand or a better parking spot -
     3) “Barack’s gonna put you to work!” Heh-heh-heh!

     Siserda, you’re such a loser -
371. On November 22nd, 2009 at 6:04 pm , tminu said...

     WTF even SNL is starting to get a CLUE about the colossal FRAUD FAILURE that is Obama??
     http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/china-cold-open/1178451/

     This is funny!
372. On November 22nd, 2009 at 6:23 pm , qwertyman said...

     Court ordered means court ordered, not Michelle ordered.
     If Michelle had ordered it, that would be via Rule 756. Michelle Obama is on “Court Ordered Inactive Status” pursuant to Rule 770, i.e. disciplinary rules, to avoid reporting of malpractice. Compelled to go voluntarily inactive would be the kindest description of this outcome.

     Rule 770 has gone through a number of changes over the years. What Rule 770 is now is not what it was when Michelle Obama voluntarily relinquished her license. Here’s Rule 556(7):

     (7) An attorney who is on voluntary inactive status pursuant to former Rule 770 who wishes to register for any year after 1999 shall file a petition for restoration under Rule 759. If the petition is granted, the attorney shall advise the Administrator in writing whether he or she wishes to register as active, inactive or retired, and shall pay the fee required for that status for the year in which the restoration order is entered. Any such attorney who petitions for restoration after December 31, 2000, shall pay a sum equal to the annual registration fees that the attorney would have been required to pay for each full year after 1999 during which the attorney remained on Rule 770 inactive status without payment of a fee.

     So yeah, good job citing the wrong rule. Michelle Obama is voluntarily inactive under a rule different from the one you cited. Former Rule 770 is not the same as the current Rule 770.

     Further, this stuff about alleged insurance fraud is something made up by right wingers without a single shred of evidence to support it.
373. On November 22nd, 2009 at 7:21 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     qwertyman says:
     November 22, 2009 at 6:23 pm
     *good job citing the wrong rule. Michelle Obama is voluntarily inactive under a rule different from the one you cited. Former Rule 770 is not the same as the current Rule 770.*

     Thanks qwerty. Looks like tminu should stick to his “camel toe” fetish!
374. On November 22nd, 2009 at 7:38 pm , jtx said...

     Here’s a repeat of the short, educational video that’s driving the Obots NUTS!!
375. On November 22nd, 2009 at 7:38 pm , misanthropicus said...

     Some levity, let’s amplify the comfort zone: bellow is the link for Michelle Obama’s Priceton thesis – hilarious? or maybe an early intallement for Wright’s “God damn America!” and today’s anti-American conspiracy for bringing the terros trial in New York City -

     Michelle Obama’s Priceton thesis:
     http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8642.html
376. On November 22nd, 2009 at 7:38 pm , Sharon 2 said...

     Geeze Sis, you are acting like a little old lady “Well I never.” People are offensive and rude on the internet all the time. Palin is treated far worse.

     You would never survive a reading from Lame Cherry concerning Michelle Obama, which is where some of t’s comments came from.

     Phil, I am not citing Lame Cherry for any other purpose here. I want to stick to your rule about links, even though I did not give one.
377. On November 22nd, 2009 at 7:47 pm , qwertyman said...

     Here’s a repeat of the short, educational video that’s driving the Obots NUTS!!

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsX5DzZHkIU

     Absolutely nothing new. Just a repeat of everything Taitz and Apuzzo and all the rest of the birthers have been saying from the beginning.

     Oh, and he doesn’t allow comments from those he disagrees with. It’s easy to seem authoritative when you refuse to listen to opposing viewpoints.

     Michelle Obama’s Priceton thesis:
     http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0208/8642.html

     Wow, looks like it’s rerun week here at TRSoL. The old Michelle disbarment theory, bringing out a story from a year and a half ago about an actually interesting thesis written by Michelle, and a youtube saying the exact same thing as other birthers have been saying for over a year, with absolutely nothing new to add to the argument that we should follow a legal interpretation of citizenship law that was rooted in sexism, racism and xenophobia (see Leo’s “holy grail” Collins article). A legal interpretation of citizenship law that was key to the reasoning of the Dred Scott case.

     Looks like birthers are running out of crap to throw at the wall and are just trying the old ones out again, hoping for a better outcome the second time around perhaps.
378. On November 22nd, 2009 at 7:58 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     Sharon 2 says:
     November 22, 2009 at 7:38 pm
     *Lame Cherry concerning Michelle Obama, which is where some of t’s comments came from.*

     So tminu isn’t a nasty little perv, he’s a simple-minded parrot, copying and pasting what he read somewhere else? Figures. He wasn’t faking that excitement about “camel toe” though.
379. On November 22nd, 2009 at 8:00 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     qwertyman says:
     November 22, 2009 at 7:47 pm
     *Wow, looks like it’s rerun week here at TRSoL. *

     The birthers are going “green”! Recycling all their old debunked foolishness and trying to sell at as something new and shiney.
380. On November 22nd, 2009 at 8:19 pm , ramjet767 said...

     A new video is out on YouTube about the words – Natural Born Citizen – Three Little Words. Definitely worth watching. Here is the link:

     http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=B278681E23614868

     RJ
381. On November 22nd, 2009 at 8:22 pm , tminu said...

     NBC, easy as 1,2,3!

     You get one point for
     Mom=US Citizen = 1 point
     Dad=US Citizen = 1 point
     Born in-country = 1 point

     “Natural Born Citizen” requires 3 points, only permutation not defined by 14th amendment
     “Citizen” requires only 1 or 2 points any permutation, defined by 14th amendment, or can be naturalized.
     Natural Born Citizen = 3 points
     Born Citizen = 1 or 2 or 3 points (3 point version overlaps w/NBC)
     Naturalized = 0 points
382. On November 22nd, 2009 at 8:28 pm , tminu said...

     siseliar: I did original research on the disciplinary code, idiot.

     It says the truth right there on her Illinois file;

     “NO MALPRACTICE REPORT REQUIRED AS ATTORNEY IS ON COURT ORDERED INACTIVE STATUS”

     Which means for you brainstemmers, that she averted a MALPRACTICE REPORT by going INACTIVE as ORDERED BY THE COURT.

     RULE 770 IS DISCIPLINARY

     http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/12/25/michelleobamaardcrecord.jpg
383. On November 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 8:22 pm
     *NBC, easy as 1,2,3!*

     How many times are you going to copy and paste it here today? Just another attempt by southern right-wing whites who feel left-behind to feel better about the world passing them by.

     Let me translate:

     3 points = white
     2 points = white immigrants
     1 point = blacks
     0 points = the browns, yellows, in-betweens

     See, Barack Obama can’t be President because no matter where he was born he only gets 1 point. 1,2,3, easy as do re mi, as simple as a retarded sweet potato. Yay us!
384. On November 22nd, 2009 at 8:34 pm , tminu said...

     and Siseliarpervert, you are definitely projecting your own perversions as per Michelle’s inappropriate garb.

     you call THIS your Jacquelyn?
     http://www.gircweb.org/Michelle%27s%20teeth.jpg

     NBC, easy as 1,2,3!

     You get one point for
     Mom=US Citizen, any race/religion/ethnicity = 1 point
     Dad=US Citizen any race/religion/ethnicity = 1 point
     Born in-country any race/religion/ethnicity = 1 point

     “Natural Born Citizen” requires 3 points, only permutation not defined by 14th amendment
     “Citizen” requires only 1 or 2 points any permutation, defined by 14th amendment, or can be naturalized.
     Natural Born Citizen = 3 points
     Born Citizen = 1 or 2 or 3 points (3 point version overlaps w/NBC)
     Naturalized = 0 points
385. On November 22nd, 2009 at 8:37 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 8:28 pm

     Nope. You’re wrong. Michelle Obama voluntarily resigned. Barack Obama voluntarily retired. You will find the same thing is true of most attorneys who leave the practice of the law to enter business fields, temporarily or permanently, and in particular the legislature. The attorneys in the House and Senate do not practice law while in office. You see, if you had more real-life knowledge instead of “researching” for whatever piece or parse supports your argument if you twist it in a pretzel, these things wouldn’t seem nefarious to you. In short, as usual, you’ve taken nothing and contorted it by misrepresentation into what you think is something. People with experience in the world know otherwise.
386. On November 22nd, 2009 at 8:46 pm , qwertyman said...

     siseliar: I did original research on the disciplinary code, idiot.

     Your research was faulty, as you overlooked Rule 756(7). The current Rule 770 is not the same as the one in effect when Michelle Obama relinquished her license.

     There is absolutely no evidence to support the accusation you make, but then again, that’s nothing new for a birther.
387. On November 22nd, 2009 at 8:48 pm , tminu said...

     qwerty: Nope, 770 is disciplinary.

     READ CAREFULLY WHAT THE COURT WROTE IN MICHELLE’S FILE

     ““NO MALPRACTICE REPORT REQUIRED AS ATTORNEY IS ON COURT ORDERED INACTIVE STATUS””

     She would otherwise have a MALPRACTICE REPORT if she had not gone on COURT-ORDERED INACTIVE STATUS.
     COURT ORDERED IS NOT MICHELLE ORDERED
     COURT ORDERED IS NOT VOLUNTARY
     Jeez she got into lawschool on affirmative action then lost her law license after only 4 freeking years due to malpractice!!

     WTF don’t you brainstemobots understand? It’s right there in front of you!!!
388. On November 22nd, 2009 at 9:12 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 8:48 pm
     Stop trying to smear the First Lady. This foolishness was debunked over a year ago. That notation is about whether she has Malpractice INSURANCE. She is voluntarily inactive so she is not required to carry malpractice insurance you ninny. This is a real problem, tminu, that you don’t have the ability to absorb new information and learn. You are assuming a court order means something bad. A court order doesn’t have to mean something bad. A court order can be simply a proclamation or acknowledgement. Michelle Obama is clearly listed as VOLUNTARILY Inactive. Compare to Phillip Radmer – Not authorized to practice law due to discipline. That’s a disbarrment. Now stop trying to make it into something it’s not. Voluntary means Voluntary.
389. On November 22nd, 2009 at 9:19 pm , tminu said...

     Siseliar stop lying about Michelle’s RECORD

     She was not 756′ed she was DISCIPLINED PERSUANT TO RULE 770

     Rule 770. Types of Discipline

     Conduct of attorneys which violates the Code of Professional Responsibility Rules of Professional Conduct contained in article VIII of these rules or which tends to defeat the administration of justice or to bring the courts or the legal profession into disrepute shall be grounds for discipline by the court. Discipline of attorneys may be:

     (a) disbarment;

     (b) disbarment on consent;

     (c) suspension for a specified period and until further order of court;

     (d) suspension for a specified period of time;

     (e) suspension until further order of the court;

     (f) suspension for a specified period of time or until further order of the court with probation;

     (g) censure; or

     (h) reprimand by the court, the Review Board or a hearing panel.
     (i) No Effect on Disciplinary Proceedings. The provisions of this rule pertaining to registration status shall not bar, limit or stay any disciplinary investigations or proceedings against an attorney.

     ——
     What Is the ARDC? (this is NOT the Illinois Bar-where one can voluntarily be inactive) As our name implies, the ARDC is the agency of the Supreme Court of Illinois which registers attorneys and investigates complaints of misconduct filed against attorneys holding a license to practice law inIllinois.

     Our principal purpose is to assist the Supreme Court to determine a lawyer’s fitness to practice law in Illinois. If a complaint is made that an attorney, licensed to practice law in Illinois, has engaged in illegal, unethical or dishonest conduct, we will investigate and, if warranted, bring formal disciplinary charges. TheSupreme Court of Illinois will then ultimately decide if a lawyer should be censured (publicly rebuked), suspended (having the law license to practice either taken away for a certain period of time or placed on a probationary period) or disbarred (having the law license taken away indefinitely).

     We cannot impose fines, imprison, obtain monetary damages, enforce remedies between the lawyer and client, or seek civil or criminal relief against a lawyer as part of the disciplinary process. We can affect only the lawyer’s ability to practice law inIllinois.

     We are not funded by taxpayers’ money. We are funded entirely by the annual registration fees paid by attorneys authorized to practice law inIllinois.

     What Is a Request for an Investigation of an Attorney?

     It is a request to us that we look into the conduct of an attorney who you believe has acted improperly. We will review your request to determine if an investigation is warranted. In most cases, we will initiate an investigation where the information you provide us suggests that the attorney engaged in illegal, dishonest or unethical conduct. Filing a request accusingan attorney of unethical conduct is a serious matter to the lawyer. We recommend that, whenever practical, you try to resolve any differences or disputes that do not concern claims of unethical conduct directly with the lawyer.

     How Do I Request an Investigation of an Attorney?

     By mailing to our office, either in Chicago or Springfield, a request that you want an attorney to be investigated by our office. Your request should be in writing. No special form is necessary. For your convenience, you may download a Request for Investigation form. Please return the Request by postal mail or hand-delivery. The ARDC does not accept an e-mail transmission of a Request for Investigation.
390. On November 22nd, 2009 at 9:28 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     tminu says:
     November 22, 2009 at 9:19 pm

     You are a LIAR. Michelle Obama is Voluntarily Inactive. She has not been disbarred, she has not been disciplined and to continue to insist so without citation is disgusting on your part.

     RSOL readers: Go Here: https://www.iardc.org/lawyersearch.asp

     Put in Obama, Michelle and you can see to that Michelle Obama’s status is Voluntarily Inactive.
391. On November 22nd, 2009 at 9:44 pm , qwertyman said...

     She was not 756′ed she was DISCIPLINED PERSUANT TO RULE 770

     Rule 770. Types of Discipline

     1. There is no mention of Rule 770 anywhere on the screenshot of Michelle Obama’s license status, nor on the site itself as of 30 seconds ago.

     2. Once again, Rule 770 has changed over time. Rule 756(7) refers to people on voluntarily inactive status pursuant to Former Rule 770.

     3. If Michelle Obama was disciplined there would be a note of that.

     4. The “Report” you refer to refers to whether Michelle Obama reported carrying any malpractice insurance. She did not, because she is on voluntary inactive status.

     5. At the time Michelle Obama voluntarily relinquished her license, a court order was required to go to that status.

     Evidence that the 770 you’re citing is not the same at the time Michelle Obama gave up her license:

     http://www.iardc.org/orginfo_annualreport.html

     The 2000 total, which reflects an increase of only 147 attorneys over the number who registered in 1999 (as compared to average increases of 1,600 each year for the previous five years), was impacted by amendments to the rules governing registration categories and inactive status, first effective for the 2000 registration process. The amendments eliminated from Rule 756 the out-of-state registration category under which lawyers could pay a reduced fee if they did not reside, have an office in, or practice in Illinois, and deleted Rule 770, which had provided for a court-ordered inactive status that did not require annual registration or payment of any fee. At the same time, the amendments added to Rule 756 an inactive status registration category, which requires the payment of a reduced fee and annual registration, as well as a new retirement registration status, which requires no fee and no annual registration for lawyers. Lawyers who choose to register under either of those categories are not authorized to practice. The 10,400 attorneys who had previously registered as out-of-state had to choose either active, inactive or retired status. In addition, several hundred lawyers who were previously on court-ordered inactive status returned to active status and then chose one of the new registration categories, most often choosing retired status.
392. On November 22nd, 2009 at 9:46 pm , siseduermapierda said...

     go to the website of the Illinois Bar Association.
     http://www.isba.org/index.html
     At their Lawyer Finder page, you can look for attorneys by area of practice. They tell you:
     http://www.illinoislawyerfinder.com/search.html
     “If you want to look up the name of an Illinois Lawyer, please visit the ARDC’s website”
     And lo and behold, look where you’re right back to!
     https://www.iardc.org/index.html
     Michelle Obama: Voluntarily Inactive.
     Now run along tminu. You’ve been pwned.
393. On November 22nd, 2009 at 10:18 pm , misanthropicus said...

     FOR The OBAMATONS:

     You need some relaxation, here is the latest anti-Obama billboard in Wheat Ridge, Colorado – oh, I know, I know, those bitter guys in
     Brooks suits…

     “PRESIDENT OR JIHAD?”
     But as Obama’s latest move of bringing his Muslim fellows to a favorable New York trial shows, the billboard is a bit wrong – dba Obama is just KINDA, TEMPORARELY a president, but SURELY A JIHADIST -

     Have fun:
     http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-obama-billboard-112009,0,2612065.story
394. On November 22nd, 2009 at 11:04 pm , Black Lion said...

     “It’s a challenge to respond to this nonsense quickly; Matthews said a lot of dumb things in a short period of time. But it’s worth noting that Obama isn’t “leading with his chin”; he’s tackling the issues in front of him. That’s what presidents do. Obama bowed to the Japanese emperor as a matter of protocol, and no one cares except the media establishment. Obama isn’t “dithering” — though it’s good to know Chris Matthews is willing to read directly from Dick Cheney’s script — he’s crafting a forward-thinking U.S. policy, which is what Bush/Cheney should have done a long time ago.
     And Khalid Sheikh Mohammed isn’t being invited to NYC for story-telling — he’ll be on trial for mass murder.”

     http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_11/021103.php
395. On November 22nd, 2009 at 11:15 pm , Black Lion said...

     A vert interesting article for all those on the right that vilify the President and the Administration regarding spending…The legacy that the US was left with by the Bush administration…

     “Last week, Mike Allen and Jim Vandehei at Politico reported that the White House planned on making deficit reduction a centerpiece of the next State of the Union address. Allen and Vandehei called the decision “practical” saying that “Obama has spent more money on new programs in nine months than Bill Clinton did in eight years, pushing the annual deficit to $1.4 trillion. This leaves little room for big spending initiatives.” This fact is taken completely out of the context of the recession. The title of the article refers to the White House’s “spending binge.” The deficits, tax cuts, and spending of the previous administration are ignored entirely.

     It’s not exactly news that most members of MSM are almost purposely amnesiac. There is no greater insult to a reporter than to call his story “history.” And yet once upon a time, it was only yesterday that was old news. Nowadays, with the new neverending cable/talk-radio/blogosphere-driven news cycle, we are all supposed to have forgotten the past fifteen minutes. (There is actually a headline on the Drudge Report as I write this that the Associated Press went to the trouble of looking at the record and seeing whether any of the outrageous claims made in Sarah Palin’s memoir are true. The idea appears to be if it says so in a book, it’s wrong of a journalist to actually check the record. The (surprise, surprise) Fox News story contains no link to the AP story, further making the point that the record is really irrelevant to the story.)

     The Bush tax cuts: When the Bush tax cuts sunset at the end of 2010, the previous administration will have left the government holding the bag for well over $2 trillion in lost revenue. The extraordinary debt and deficits accrued during Bush’s tenure have been compounded by the implosion of the financial system. In addition, the estimated eventual costs of the costly, unnecessary, and counterproductive Iraq war are now in the trillions to say nothing of the costs of more than six years of failure in Afghanistan. What have they done for America?

     As David Cay Johnston, a former New York Times reporter, recently noted, based on data compiled by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, by the time the Bush tax cuts expire next year, people in the top one percentile of annual household incomes will have received 23.5 percent of all the savings in the cuts. The combined savings of the bottom three income brackets was less than that.

     The Bush war: The opaque appropriations process for funding the Iraq war has generally allowed the Bush administration to shield itself from a great deal of scrutiny by the public on the total cost of the war. Congress approved “bridge funding” and emergency spending requests and so the full costs of the war were kept out of the budget. None of the dollar amounts for the funding requests have been included in the Pentagon’s annual operating budget.

     So what does the Iraq war really cost? As early as 2006, Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Blimes estimated that the cost of the war could exceed $2 trillion, including health care for veterans and other expenses. The Congressional Budget Office, in 2008, called it a $1
     trillion war, but a trillion strikes us as an overly modest estimation today.

     Afganistan: The legacy of Bush’s runaway military spending and his tax cuts is doing more than just destroying the fiscal health of our government—it is also endangering our security. Look at Afghanistan. According to a recent report in The New York Times, “Some administration estimates suggest it could also cost up to $50 billion over five years to more than double the size of the Afghan army and police force, to a total of 400,000. That includes recruiting, training and equipment.”

     http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2009/11/ta111909.html
396. On November 22nd, 2009 at 11:18 pm , Pat Smith said...

     Why would Moochelle Obama who worked at a prestigious law firm in
     Chicago, who had graduated from one of the most prestigious law schools in
     the country, and who had endured the grueling task of sitting for the bar
     exam TWICE, then voluntarily give up her law license?

     SisBoomBa…Change We Can Believe In…Yes, We Can
397. On November 23rd, 2009 at 12:03 am , Black Lion said...

     Pat Smith says:
     November 22, 2009 at 11:18 pm
     Why would Moochelle Obama who worked at a prestigious law firm in
     Chicago, who had graduated from one of the most prestigious law schools in
     the country, and who had endured the grueling task of sitting for the bar
     exam TWICE, then voluntarily give up her law license?

     SisBoomBa…Change We Can Believe In…Yes, We Can
     ___________________________________________________________________
     Wow Pat…A direct recycle of a internet rumor except you took out the words “Black Woman”…

     This was the actual quote of the question you used….And it was from October of 2008

     “Why would a black woman who worked at a prestigious law firm in
     Chicago, who had graduated from one of the most prestigious law schools in the country, and who had endured the grueling task of sitting for the bar exam TWICE, then voluntarily give up her law license?”

     From Wikpedia….

     “In 1996, Obama served as the Associate Dean of Student Services at the University of Chicago, where she developed the University’s Community Service Center.[28] In 2002, she began working for the University of Chicago Hospitals, first as executive director for community affairs and, beginning May, 2005, as Vice President for Community and External Affairs.[29] She still holds the position, though she is working part time in order to devote more time to being a mother.[30]”

     Maybe she gave up her law license (when inactive) because she had become a mother and her job did not require her to have her law license active…So why pay for the dues, fees, and malpractice insurance if you don’t need to…I know a couple of attorneys that have done the same thing… Unless you have some evidence of other reasons why she had it go inactive, this is just you birthers recycling the same debunked theories because you have nothing else. Just pathetic.

     Birthers…The same crap for idiots to believe it…
398. On November 23rd, 2009 at 12:06 am , kj said...

     Phil,

     The flame on this site is pretty high and I was wondering if there was a simple way to close the valve a little bit and still allow people to have their say.

     Several commenters on both sides are posting comments several times a day that are devoid of any new information. These multiple posts make it hard to find any new and interesting information that is posted.

     Surely each commenter can chose a topic or two to comment on and accept a posting limit of one or two comments a day? Not a total ban, but kinda like the sharing and self restraint you were taught in preschool.

     If a maximum number of daily posts is instituted, some people might try to hog the comments by switching from frequent posts to every long posts, and the post length might have to be limited too.

     Just a thought. Don’t want to see anyone shut out, especially the people who might have a good idea or two.
     KJ
399. On November 23rd, 2009 at 9:20 am , siseduermapierda said...

     Pat Smith says:
     November 22, 2009 at 11:18 pm
     *Why would Michelle Obama who worked at a prestigious law firm in voluntarily give up her law license?*

     She didn’t “give up her law license”, she’s Inactive. All she has to do to become active again is give notice she intends to change her status, pay her dues to the bar and get malpractice insurance. Attorneys who go into professions other than the legal profession go inactive all the time. There is no reason to pay your bar dues, which also requires you to carry Malpractice Insurance, if you are not engaged in actively practicing the law. Michelle Obama will not practice law as the First Lady. One of the foremost reasons for becoming inactive is to avoid the impropriety of being in a situation where someone thinks you’re giving them legal advice or representation. 2/3 of the US Congress are trained attorneys and members of the bar, yet it is common practice while serving in elected office to become inactive. How strange that you would take “voluntarily inactive” and stretch it all the way to “giving up her license, have to take the bar all over again.” I swear you people must live in caves or something.
400. On November 23rd, 2009 at 1:26 pm , Phil said...

     kj,

     Phil,

     The flame on this site is pretty high and I was wondering if there was a simple way to close the valve a little bit and still allow people to have their say.

     Several commenters on both sides are posting comments several times a day that are devoid of any new information. These multiple posts make it hard to find any new and interesting information that is posted.

     Surely each commenter can chose a topic or two to comment on and accept a posting limit of one or two comments a day? Not a total ban, but kinda like the sharing and self restraint you were taught in preschool.

     If a maximum number of daily posts is instituted, some people might try to hog the comments by switching from frequent posts to every long posts, and the post length might have to be limited too.

     Just a thought. Don’t want to see anyone shut out, especially the people who might have a good idea or two.
     KJ

     The only effective means to impose what you’re suggesting is for me to revert back to my “no comments get through until after I’ve moderated every comment.” While that’s certainly not terrible, I’ve had lots of positive feedback that the currently open means of discussion tends to suit individuals better.

     Regarding how heated the discussions can be at times, I think that’s the risk of having an open debate. And while I have seen certain individuals calling each other “liar,” I think that’s about as strong as it’s gotten, to date. Yet, charges of “racism,” “bigotry,” and what not will, unfortunately, always be lobbed by the opposition to questioning this President’s background on topics such as eligibility.

     As long as things keep to a dull roar and the threads keep moving forward, I’m OK with that. I also invite anyone who chooses to to become involved in the discussion. Just because someone says “You’re wrong” doesn’t mean that you don’t have a right to your opinion.

     After all, most individuals here are merely armchair-quarterbacking legalities and what not anyway.

     -Phil