Healthcare Update: TX May Opt Out of ObamaCare; Rep. Intros Bill to Privatize Medicare

by Phil on 10/28/2009

Via the LibertarianRepublican blog, Texas GOP Governor Rick Perry was interviewed by Fox News concerning his views on State’s rights and healthcare, especially if the feds were to actually pass a bill with a public option in it (though, according to HotAir.com, it appears that the Democrats are having an awfully hard time keeping their caucus together, especially with the pesky controversial issue of abortion):

Regarding healthcare and as a means of getting a robust debate started on whether or not the federal government should even be involved in medical decisions, Rep. Dr. Paul Brown (R) from my great State of Georgia is preparing to introduce a bill (h/t again to LR) that would privatize Medicare.

According to the Athens Banner-Herald:

Broun’s bill would replace government benefits with vouchers that could be spent on private insurance or put in tax-free medical savings accounts.

“We’ve got to fix Medicare,” he said. “It’s headed in a direction that’s unsustainable.”

Broun, R-Athens, long has held that entitlement programs like Medicare and Social Security are unconstitutional, although he has said he wants to reform rather than eliminate such programs. …

Broun acknowledged that his bill, dubbed the OPTION Act, or Offering Patients True Individualized Options Now, will not pass the Democrat-controlled Congress. But he said he hopes Democrats will adopt parts of it as a stand-alone bipartisan bill.

Among Broun’s proposals he said could pass muster with Republicans and some Democrats: Transparent pricing and reimbursement rates, allowing people to buy insurance across state lines, expanding tax deductions for health care expenses, and letting groups of people band together to get lower rates.

Eric points out a link to a related posting from the uber-liberal DailyKOS site (OK, so I can’t say only bad things about the place — they have linked to my site before!) that made the following point about She Who Would Be President ™:

Perhaps the highest profile Republican leading the charge to privatize Medicare is former Alaska Governor Sarah Palin.  After her earlier fear-mongering over mythical “death panels,” in September Palin went rogue on the op-ed page of the Wall Street Journal, regurgitating the right-wing call for vouchers:

Instead of poll-driven “solutions,” let’s talk about real health-care reform: market-oriented, patient-centered, and result-driven. As the Cato Institute’s Michael Cannon and others have argued, such policies include giving all individuals the same tax benefits received by those who get coverage through their employers; providing Medicare recipients with vouchers that allow them to purchase their own coverage; reforming tort laws to potentially save billions each year in wasteful spending; and changing costly state regulations to allow people to buy insurance across state lines. Rather than another top-down government plan, let’s give Americans control over their own health care.

In other news related to the States’ rights movement:

-Phil

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There are 18 comments in this article:

  1. 10/29/2009David says:

    With all of this talk about government health care and what may or may not be included in the bill that is yet to be presented, I think one question has escaped many people, particularly the advocates of such a plan:

    What constitutional authority does the federal government have to implement such a system? In particular, what authority do they have to force anyone to purchase a specific service?

    By the way – I agree with Broun when he says that Social Security and Medicare are unconstitutional programs. But that’s not the worst part: They will both be insolvent in the very near future and these two programs alone comprise well over one-third of the annual federal outlays. Over 60% of our annual budget is spent on education, social services, health, Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment. All of these are programs that the federal government has no business funding. All of them require taking money from one group of individuals in order to provide services to another – while excluding many of the people who have had their money confiscated for those purposes.

    We are going bankrupt, and rather quickly. Despite these failing programs and the budget statistics staring us in the face, there are many people wondering why our economy and the dollar is collapsing. Does anyone care to take a guess?

  2. 10/29/2009The Strident Conservative says:

    Global Warming To Improve Under Obamacare…

    On the heals of a story published in the Guardian Newspaper about how fewer babies will create a cleaner environment, White House Press Secretary, Robert Gibbs, announced in a briefing with the media (everyone except FOX News) that an additional benefi…

  3. 10/29/2009siseduermapierda says:

    David says:
    October 29, 2009 at 3:08 am
    *What constitutional authority does the federal government have to implement such a system? In particular, what authority do they have to force anyone to purchase a specific service?*

    Article I Sec 8 gives Congress the power to pass laws that provide for the general welfare of the United States.
    http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html

  4. 10/29/2009David says:

    siseduermapierda,

    “Article I Sec 8 gives Congress the power to pass laws that provide for the general welfare of the United States.”

    And? What does “providing for the general welfare” have to do with taxing people for not purchasing a specific service they do not want or need, or forcing them to purchase it under a threat of fines?

    Your answer is a pretty broad – and wholly ignorant – interpretation of constitutional law. But that’s not at all surprising.

  5. 10/29/2009siseduermapierda says:

    David says:
    October 29, 2009 at 7:22 pm
    *Your answer is a pretty broad – and wholly ignorant – interpretation of constitutional law. But that’s not at all surprising.*

    Not at all surprising that you are so uninformed you don’t know that is the answer any Congressman or Senator will give you when you ask “where does the Constitution give you the right…”. Article I, Section 8 gives the Congress the power to enact programs like Medicare, Social Security, Health Care Public Option, WIC, food stamps, the Farm Bill, and on and on and on. Did you sleep through US Govt class? How can an American adult not know this? Call your representative and ask.

  6. 10/29/2009Phil says:

    siseduermapierda,

    Not at all surprising that you are so uninformed you don’t know that is the answer any Congressman or Senator will give you when you ask “where does the Constitution give you the right…”. Article I, Section 8 gives the Congress the power to enact programs like Medicare, Social Security, Health Care Public Option, WIC, food stamps, the Farm Bill, and on and on and on. Did you sleep through US Govt class? How can an American adult not know this? Call your representative and ask.

    This is not an issue of ignorance; this is an issue of constitutional interpretation. I happen to thoroughly agree with “David’s” interpretation of the welfare clause (surprise, surprise (no, not really)).

    However, just because Congress is currently operating under a certain interpretational presumption doesn’t necessarily make that presumption proper vis-a-vis a federalistic role of the federal government.

    -Phil

  7. 10/29/2009siseduermapierda says:

    Phil says:
    October 29, 2009 at 9:15 pm
    *constitutional interpretation*

    The correct answer to David’s question IS Article I Section 8.

  8. 10/30/2009David says:

    The correct answer is:

    The federal government cannot force individuals to purchase any product or service they do not want or need to purchase, nor can they fine them for not doing so, nor imprison them for not doing so. This would be rightfully called “tyranny.”

    Sise…if you could be so kind to point out any constitutional clause that allows such a thing, or any document from American history which demonstrates that our federal government was created with the ability to force such an act on the American People, it may just help your argument.

  9. 10/30/2009siseduermapierda says:

    David says:
    October 30, 2009 at 1:55 am
    *if you could be so kind to point out any constitutional clause that allows such a thing, or any document from American history which demonstrates that our federal government was created with the ability to force such an act on the American People, it may just help your argument.*

    I did. Twice before. Article I, Sec 8, Clause 1: ” The Congress shall have the power to lay and collect taxes,duties, imposts,and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States. ” I have given you this answer twice and it IS the correct answer to your question. You have a very bad habit of insisting people are wrong when it is you who lacks knowledge. If you choose not to believe me, please contact your Representative or Senator. Conduct some research of your own. It may just help Your argument. If you knew your American History, you would know this is the same part of the Constitution that allowed Congress to create Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, the Farm Bill, No Child Left Behind and just about every other social welfare program in our history.

    Stop telling me I’m wrong, because I am right.

  10. 10/30/2009David says:

    siseduermapierda,

    So, you are insisting that the American People have a constitution that allows the federal government to force the People to purchase things they do not want or need? (Even though that position is absolutely incorrect, I will humor you for now.)

    If what you insist is true is indeed a matter of fact, then are you in favor of altering or abolishing the Constitution in order to correct that problem? Or do you not see that as a problem?

  11. 10/30/2009siseduermapierda says:

    David says:
    October 30, 2009 at 11:44 am
    If what you insist is true is indeed a matter of fact.

    It is true David. Article I, Section 8 gives the Congress the power to enact the laws the will establish the Health Care system and have already created the programs I listed. You can choose to not believe it, but it is the way it is. Your lack of knowledge of the Constitution and American History is appalling if you think Rep Broun is the first person evah to try to argue Social Security and Medicare aren’t Constitutional. Anyone who has ever opposed any sweeping legislation in the history of this country tries to argue “It’s Unconstitutional”. Social Security and Medicare and the Farm Bill and the Civil Rights Act and the Hate Crimes Bill and the Employee Free Choice Act and the Equal Pay Act are all constitutional for Congress to enact because of the powers it derives from Article I, Section 8. If you don’t believe it, contact your Congressman or your Senator.

  12. 10/30/2009David says:

    siseduermapierda,

    You’re never going to answer the question, are you? You’re just going to repeat the same thing, over, and over, and over again – while ignoring the point I originally made, aren’t you? Yes, Medicare, Social Security, and the Farm Bill have been enacted…what’s your point? I’ll give you yet another opportunity – the FIFTH one – to answer the question:

    How is it constitutional for the federal government to force any individual to purchase a particular service or to fine and/or imprison them if they don’t? (Hint: Article I, Section 8 does not give the federal government any authority to force any citizen to purchase something they do not wish to purchase.)

    This type of “penalty” being sought for “universal” health care is being pushed by many of our members of Congress. If it is your contention that the federal government has that authority, then you can be accurately described as an utter incompetent. I find it rather amusing that you try to paint yourself as a constitutional scholar while pushing such nonsense as accepted law. Please tell me you’re not a United States citizen. How embarrassing it would be for you and this country if you are.

  13. 10/30/2009siseduermapierda says:

    David says:
    October 30, 2009 at 3:32 pm
    *You’re never going to answer the question, are you? *

    Let’s see, the question was “where in the Constitution does it give Congress the power to require people to buy health insurance if it is not provided by their employer or they’re not under Medicare, or face fines? ” My answer remains, and it IS the Correct answer: The Congress derives its power to do so from Article I Sec 8 of the US Constitution.

    Article I, Section 8 is pretty straightforward. Read it again. If you are still unable to comprehend why it gives Congress this power, please contact your Congressman, one of your Senators, your local junior high civics teacher or Senator Mitch McConnell, the Senate Minority Leader who is renowned for his knowledge and understanding of the Constitution and Congressional Procedure. They will be more than happy to explain it. If the Constitution didn’t give Congress the power to enact the provisions of the health care bill, the 5 health care bills would have never gotten to committee vote.

  14. 10/30/2009David says:

    siseduermapierda,

    “Let’s see, the question was ‘where in the Constitution does it give Congress the power to require people to buy health insurance if it is not provided by their employer or they’re not under Medicare, or face fines?’”

    No, that was not the question. But nice try at attempting to cover up your ignorance by being deceitful. You are almost unbelievable – but I’m wise to your game, so I’m used to you not being able to “debate” honestly.

    The original questions are right there at the bottom of the page for everyone to see. It’s hard to lie about it when everybody else can see for themselves. Here are my statements and the questions repeated exactly as they were originally written:

    “With all of this talk about government health care and what may or may not be included in the bill that is yet to be presented, I think one question has escaped many people, particularly the advocates of such a plan:

    “What constitutional authority does the federal government have to implement such a system? IN PARTICULAR, WHAT AUTHORITY DO THEY HAVE TO FORCE ANYONE TO PURCHASE A SPECIFIC SERVICE?”

    So, now that we are perfectly clear – for the SIXTH time – are you going to answer? Or will you continue to remain an utter incompetent?

  15. 10/30/2009siseduermapierda says:

    David says:
    October 29, 2009 at 3:08 am
    * IN PARTICULAR, WHAT AUTHORITY DO THEY HAVE TO FORCE ANYONE TO PURCHASE A SPECIFIC SERVICE?”

    For the SIXTH Time, Article I, Section 8 gives Congress the power to enact laws to provide for the general welfare. Requiring everyone to have health insurance provides for the general welfare by ensuring everyone has insurance. If you drive a car in a state that requires you to have auto insurance, you are familiar with this concept. If you are still not clear from reading Article I, Section 8 why the Congress has the power to force someone to purchase health insurance if it is not provided by their employer, then please, contact your Representative, or one of you Senators. You are not going to get a different answer from me by trying to insult me, belittle me or yell at me with your all caps because I have given you the Correct answer. But I’m really tickled to see your all caps yelling. The language of Article I, Section 8 is pretty clear. Do you really not get it? You can even google it and find an explanation since you don’t like my answer. But really, call your representatives. They love answering this question. No kidding, they really do. And they will answer it EXACTLY the way I did. (Seriously, you don’t understand Article I, Section 8? do some homework)

  16. 10/30/2009David says:

    siseduermapierda,

    Let me just first say that you’re an idiot – because you most likely will not understand the rest of what I write, as usual.

    State requirements for car insurance have nothing to do with federal mandates for individual health insurance. You do not have a right to own and operate a motorized vehicle. If you choose to own and operate one, then if your state has a law that requires you to obtain insurance in order to own and operate that vehicle, you must get it or you cannot drive. That is a choice for each person to make – either you own a vehicle, purchase the necessary insurance, and drive it, or you find alternative transportation. And it varies by state. It is not a federal law deriving its authority from the People via the Constitution of the United States.

    How is that different from the federal government requiring individuals to either carry health insurance or pay a fine/go to prison?

    Well, health insurance is something carried for personal health. If the federal government requires you to carry it, it is only based on the fact that you are alive. You don’t need to do anything other than live in order to be required to have it. Meaning, you have no choice. Meaning, you are forced to carry it, or you can choose to die in order to avoid it. Meaning, that is not a choice – it is forced participation…or what some people like to call “tyranny.”

    There is nothing in our Constitution – no, not even Article I, Section 8 – that grants authority to the federal government for the implementation of a law or program that demands individuals to either purchase a service or choose the alternative to avoid it, which is death. Live and carry government-mandated health insurance, or die.

    So, you who is ever-so-learned about constitutional law and its philosophical basis: A “health reform” bill cannot include such a requirement. It would be – as a matter of undisputed fact – unconstitutional…an illegitimate and immoral law.

    Now, you can keep on pretending to be really smart and repeat the same old line – “Article I, Section 8…Article I, Section 8…Article I, Section 8″ and “Contact your representatives…Contact your representatives” – but until or unless you can actually explain where this mythical power of the federal government is derived, or admit that you have no clue what you’re arguing about, you will continue to be utterly incompetent. And that is not “belittling” or “insulting” – it is called “observational analysis.” You have had plenty of chances to explain your position, yet you have failed to do so (except in your own little mind).

    Don’t bother telling me – again – about Article I, Section 8 granting the federal government authority to be despotic. It does nothing of the sort. Only an incompetent would make such an argument.

  17. 10/31/2009siseduermapierda says:

    David says:
    October 30, 2009 at 10:39 pm
    *but until or unless you can actually explain where this mythical power of the federal government is derived*

    Article I, Section 8 is where Congress derives its power to enact a law that requires people to have health insurance. It ain’t mythical, it’s very real and Congress uses it almost every time they pass legislation. I challenge you to call on Monday and ask one of your reps this question. They really do love answering this question. They get it almost every day. You didn’t really think you were being clever or original insisting it isn’t Constitutional, did you?

  18. 10/31/2009DixHistory.com says:

    I agree with David.

    I also think if Mr. Broun had raised a point of order along with another congress person Obama wouldn’t be POTUS.

    Then I might be wrong because, I was told by a couple of congress people all R’s here in GA. We have our eye on it. They would do what was right when the time came.

    So David, in the real world we have to deal with what is and not what if or what should be.

    None will get my vote even if I have to write in Pop-Eye. That likely will do nothing but make me feel better but then that is all that I want. I can meet all my other needs all by myself.

    Nancy and her ilk can pass any darn thing they like, I will do what I like because I know I am free. Catch me if you can.

    If it wasn’t for the guy with a gun in the court room corner and his ability to get more of the same, how much respect would any court get?

    A court with honor or a congress person with honor is a big joke, they tell it over and over to each other all the time.

    My Point being power makes right, only if you fear death or living in a small room with free health care, TV, room and board.

    http://www.dixhistory.com/obama.htm