Eligibility Update: HI AG Response to Questions; “Birther” Infomercial Airs; Kerchner v. Obama Letter to Judge

by Phil on 10/1/2009

As I had been reporting, attorney Leo Donofrio has teamed up with “TerriK” (Update: they are peaceably going in separate directions)  in an investigation and potential lawsuit aimed at discovering upon what basis did Hawaii Department of Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino declare that Mr. Obama is a natural born citizen.

Today, Mr. Donofrio posted on his web site that the Hawaiian Attorney General Mark Bennett approved Dr. Fukino’s July 27 press release, lending credence to the fact that we, the People, have a right to know the basis for such a claim (much more at the referenced link):

Justin Riggs sent the following email to DoH Communications Director Janice Okubo on July 29, 2009:

From: Justin Riggs [email address redacted]
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:03 PM
To: …janice.okubo@doh.hawaii.gov, [redacted other recipient]

…Ms. Okubo,

I am currently a masters degree candidate at …

The reason that I am contacting your organizations is that you are, as far as I can tell from my research, the only two groups that have openly stated that President Obama is a natural born citizen (one of the Article II, Section I qualifications for being President). I would like to document how you came to that conclusion: i.e. what the criteria is for your organization, what evidence the candidate provides, etc.
I thank you for your time, and look forward to receiving a response in the near future.

Sincerely,

Justin W. Riggs

Janice Okubo responded later that day:

From: Okubo, Janice S..
Date: Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 12:20 PM
To: Justin Riggs [email address redacted]…

Aloha Justin,

The statement was reviewed and approved by our Attorney General Mark Bennett. I am unable to provide further comment.

Janice Okubo
Communications Office
Hawaii State Department of Health…

So, we know that Hawaii Attorney General Mark Bennet “reviewed and approved” Fukino’s July 27th press release. Bennet may have prepared the entire press release or perhaps just the “natural-born” part. We don’t know. Okubo states that she is unable to provide further comment, so the rest is a mystery at this point. But we certainly have another public statement here which makes information available to the public.

The public is therefore entitled to all records maintained by Hawaii officials which pertain to this July 29th statement by Okubo. For example, any emails between Okubo and AG Bennett, between Okubo and Fukino, between Bennett and Fukino, Governor Lingle, etc. which guided Okubo’s statement to Justin Riggs must be disclosed along with memos, letters, transcripts, video and telephonic conference recordings and any other records maintained thereto.

The same goes for any records maintained documenting dialogue between Hawaii officials and federal officials as to this issue.

But more important is that all of the above records pertaining to Fukino’s July 27th press release must also be disclosed.

In related news, a concerned citizen forwarded me the following story out of Springfield, Missouri from KY3.com regarding an infomercial concerning “birthers:”

[The following report is a rough approximation of the reporting in the above video]

SPRINGFIELD — Almost nine months into his presidency and there are still groups questioning Barack Obama’s U.S. citizenship.

And now the so-called “birther” movement has taken to the airwaves right here in Missouri.

A fundamentalist Christian group has teamed up with a right-wing legal foundation to put together a half hour infomercial, asking the question: “Where was President Obama born?” The group has aired the ads in cities in seven states, and last week, if you were up late enough, you could’ve seen it in the Ozarks.

It aired at midnight last Thursday on Ky3′s sister station, KSPR. It’s the latest piece of evidence that the “birther” movement is not about to go dark.

“It’s obvious President Obama is trying to hide where he was really born,” blasts the infomercial.

Despite verification from the Hawaii Department of Health that the president has a valid state certificate of birth, Live Prayer.com has teamed up with the United States Justice Foundation to urge people to write $30 checks to help pay for faxes asking every state Attorneys General to launch an investigation.

As a thank-you, recipients will receive a bumper sticker, which reads, “Got birth certificate?”

It may be a fringe movement, but Ky3 Incorporated General Manager Mike Scott said the station will only restrict content if it violates the law or is deemed libelous.

“Obviously, the opinions of this particular program may be a minority of our viewers, but certainly I think this group has the right to express themselves. I don’t think it’s libelous in any fashion,” Scott said.

“A lot of us might feel differently and find fault in what they’re saying — but it’s really not our position to judge that,” he added.
The entire movement has forced Republicans into sticky situations. Congressman Roy Blunt said this summer that the birth certificate issue was legitimate.

I don’t know anyone else that can’t produce one, and I think that’s a legitimate question,” Blunt, a candidate for U.S. Senate, is seen saying on a YouTube video.

Gary Kreep, executive director of the U.S. Justice Foundation said he is not sure if he would be pursuing this issue if John McCain had been elected president.

“I might be, the issue never came up,” Kreep said.

Kreep has doubts about the authenticity of the documents produced thus far.

“If Mr. Obama is not a natural born citizen, then he committed a criminal act in every state he signed nominating papers,” said Kreep in a phone interview with Ky3 News from California.

But dig deeper into Live Prayer’s background and you see uglier motivations.

A video on its website compares President Obama’s promise of “hope and change” to Adolph Hitler’s.

“The people of Germany had no idea that Hitler’s Hope & Change would lead to the death of 60 million people,” says a video posted on the group’s website.

Kreep said he doesn’t endorse Live Prayer’s comparisons of President Obama to Hitler. He said his group has already received between 1500 to 2000 faxes from around the country, calling for an investigation.

The Missouri Republican Party declined to comment on the groups involved or the infomercial. [emphases added]

Kudos to the GM for recognizing that the 1st Amendment is still in force. And regarding the Nazi inferences, I certainly don’t disagree with what the video portrays, especially since it was Madame Speaker who started the whole name-calling frenzy to begin with.

Mario Apuzzo, attorney for Plaintiffs in Kerchner v. Obama, submitted the following letter to USDC Judge Jerome Simandle asking why any response from the Court is now 6 weeks overdue:

Kerchner v Obama & Congress – Doc 39 – Inquiry Letter to Judge Simandle FILED 10-1-09

And The Post & Email’s John Charlton asks the following of the Kenyan ambassador at Rome, hoping for a response:

July 20, 2009

H.E. Mrs. Ann B. Nyikuli,
Ambassador of Kenya to the Italian Republic
Embassy of the Republic of Kenya,
Via Archimede, 164
00197  ROMA

Dear Ambassador,

I am a citizen of the Republic of Italy, but writing to you regarding a question I have about the most famous son of Kenya, the U.S. President Barrack Hussein Obama.

My American friends are telling me that there is a controversy over whether President Obama is the son of Barrack Obama, of the Lulo tribe, in Kenya, or whether he is the son of an American Black civil rights activist, Frank Marshall Davis, in the USA, who resided in Hawaii.

My question is this:  Can you confirm for me that the Government of Kenya has documents of its own which testify to the paternity of Barrack Obama, of the Lulo Tribe, as being the biological father of the U.S.President, Barrack Hussein Obama? And if you can confirm this, what kind of documents are these (adoption, registration of birth, birth certificate, medical records).  I do not want the documents, I only want your confirmation that Kenya has some documents of its own, to claim Obama as a son of the soil.

Please respond in writing, so I can have something solid to refute these silly ideas of my American friends!

Thank you,

[Name and Address redacted] [emphasis original]

See the following links regarding the eligibility saga:

-Phil

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Photo courtesy macprohawaii at flickr

There are 57 comments in this article:

  1. 10/2/2009GeorgetownJD says:

    Good for Mario. I hope he writes to Judge Simandle on a daily basis. It is an excellent legal strategy.

  2. 10/2/2009elspeth says:

    Full disclosure.

    In the interest of national unity, Obama should provide all the documentation requested.

    Help, the country, Mr. Obama, and stop continuing to hurt it.

  3. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    What I am unable to understand is how Leo thinks that he will get past the privacy laws. His so called theory makes no sense. His theory is based on the idea that because there is a law that data supporting public records need to be made public, then the vital records that Dr. Fukino used to state that President Obama was born in Hawaii should be made public.
    But the problem with that idea is that HI law 338-18 specifically states that the records cannot be disclosed if they conflict with privacy laws or provisions. So all Leo would be eligible to receive is the public index data, which has been released via the COLB which as we know states that the President was born in HI.
    Leo even quotes the law he feels that will make the information available, “(15) Information collected and maintained for the purpose of making information available to the general public” . However as we all know actual vital records are not maintained for general public view. For instance no one can go to the county clerk and request to see your BC and other private data. Even if you released that data, the state gov’t would not be able to confirm that information due to privacy laws. It is really that simple.
    And Leo stating that the state of HI AG signed off on the release by Dr. Fukino is a red herring. Any correspondence between Dr. Fukino and the AG would be protected by attorney-client privilege and no matter what Leo does he could never get whatever information which was discussed released.
    Secondly that Italian letter is another way to get around the privacy laws of Kenya. There is no way that they can respond. Kenya cannot confirm nor deny anything because that would be protected birth information. The writer of the letter knows this. This is just another attempt to circumvent the law.

  4. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    Maybe the birthers should listed to Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who has made the best comments regarding the so called “birthers” and especially that so called American patriot, Glenn Beck…The Senator showed some common sense, which was needed due to all of the ridiculous statements that have been out there lately…

    “Only in America can you make that much money crying,” Graham said of Beck. “Glenn Beck is not aligned with any party. He is aligned with cynicism and there has always been a market for cynics. But we became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers.”

    “The Senator called the birther community that questions the president’s U.S. citizenship “crazy” and implored them to “knock this crap off” so the country could get on to more important matters. “I’m here to tell you that those who think the president was not born in Hawaii are crazy,” said Graham, who went on to dispel another myth: that Obama is a closet Muslim.”

    Speaking before The Atlantic’s First Draft of History conference, Graham also ventured to call “crazy” a recent article on Newsmax, laying out how a military coup could overtake the Obama administration

    Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/sen-graham-calls-beck-a-c_n_306434.html

  5. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    Is there trouble in birtherland? Why? Well it looks like the marriage between the do nothing professional poker player and self proclaimed “Citizen’s attorney” Leo Donofrio and “TerriK” has broken up. According to Leo on his blog today he said the following…

    “As we move from blog reports to litigation, TerriK and I have decided it would be best for me to conduct my own investigation. We had previously decided that I would not take the step from spokesperson to actual counsel for her. But I will no longer be spokesperson for her either.”

    “Despite my best efforts, TerriK is not satisfied that I grasp the nuances of DoH Director Fukino’s parsing of words in the July 27, 2009 press release. Therefore, according to her most recent email I believe she will be speaking for herself or through other attorneys.”

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/leo-donofrio-is-no-longer-spokesperson-for-terrik/

    Interesting. Both individuals are misreading HI statute 338-18 and relevant privacy laws but cannot “grasp the nuances” of Dr. Fukino’s statement? I wonder how many “nuances” there are in the phrase President “Barack Obama was born in HI”. That seems pretty straightforward to most people. But then again I am not the “citizen’s attorney” so maybe there is some different way in English to interpret that phrase.

  6. 10/2/2009siseduermapierda says:

    Black Lion says:
    October 2, 2009 at 9:54 am
    *As we move from blog reports to litigation, TerriK and I have decided it would be best for me to conduct my own investigation.*

    Who didn’t see that coming?

    *Despite my best efforts, TerriK is not satisfied that I grasp the nuances of DoH Director Fukino’s parsing of words in the July 27, 2009 press release.*

    Oh yes, “Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.” is full of nuance. And it is TerriK who is doing the parsing. In hindsight, Dr Fukino’s statement should have simply been, “Hawaiian statute allows me to release the index data Hawaii has on file about Barack Obama. The index data says a male child named Barack Obama was born in Honolulu on Aug 4, 1961″ And then she should have made the index data available on-line, posted in the lobby of the state building. There is nothing in her original and second statement that is based on anything but index data.

  7. 10/2/2009CAL says:

    Black Lion,
    You seem to miss the point that all Leo is trying to do with this investigation is to prove that Obama was born in Hawaii. I do not know why Hawaii and you are so concerned with the successful outcome of such an investigation.
    As to your comment about attorney client priviledge with Bennett and Fukino, please read Leo’s blog. He lays out what Hawaiian statutes are in play here that cause Bennett to disclose to the public the opinion letter associated with the Fukino’s statement.
    If Leo is right or wrong, we will all find out in due time. There is nothing wrong with holding government accountable. That is what is great about being an American.

  8. 10/2/2009old1 says:

    If Kenya had no birth records of Barack Hussein Obama Jr. they would have nothing to hide and would simply give notice they have no available records on this man. They have not came forward with this statement, so one has to assume they have some sort of records on BHO. What other records could they have on file?

    The source I feel everyone is missing is the records from England. He was born a British Citizen under the British Nationality Act of 1948, therefore the Brits should have him on file. They could possibly be the source of his 1980s passport. So many unanswered questions. This would make a great movie but it would not be believable. Wake Up America!

  9. 10/2/2009DCA says:

    The Birther movement sustains a small industry of gathering donations via the internet. The birther commercial is a clever new twist to solicit money legally – they are basically selling bumper stickers for $30 – that part makes it totally legit.

    For not much more than a hundred dollars they can buy an hour at off times on local TV stations. At the 4th $30 donation in one hour the ad is completely paid for, and after that its just a few bucks to fulfill the bumper sticker purchase. The fax cost is nothing and it creates a record that they did it what they promised to do – it’s a simple PC-fax software application like WinFax that they load it up with your name and automatically send the 51 faxes – it is a free 1990 technology. The AG’s office can just discard it but the receipt is recorded by the sender – MUCH cheaper than sending actual registered mail that lawyers use.
    This only goes away when the last person stops sending money.

  10. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Black Lion says:
    October 2, 2009 at 8:44 am

    What I am unable to understand is how Leo thinks that he will get past the privacy laws. His so called theory makes no sense. His theory is based on the idea that because there is a law that data supporting public records need to be made public, then the vital records that Dr. Fukino used to state that President Obama was born in Hawaii should be made public.
    But the problem with that idea is that HI law 338-18 specifically states that the records cannot be disclosed if they conflict with privacy laws or provisions. So all Leo would be eligible to receive is the public index data, which has been released via the COLB which as we know states that the President was born in HI.
    Leo even quotes the law he feels that will make the information available, “(15) Information collected and maintained for the purpose of making information available to the general public” . However as we all know actual vital records are not maintained for general public view. For instance no one can go to the county clerk and request to see your BC and other private data. Even if you released that data, the state gov’t would not be able to confirm that information due to privacy laws. It is really that simple.
    And Leo stating that the state of HI AG signed off on the release by Dr. Fukino is a red herring. Any correspondence between Dr. Fukino and the AG would be protected by attorney-client privilege and no matter what Leo does he could never get whatever information which was discussed released.
    Secondly that Italian letter is another way to get around the privacy laws of Kenya. There is no way that they can respond. Kenya cannot confirm nor deny anything because that would be protected birth information. The writer of the letter knows this. This is just another attempt to circumvent the law.

    ********************************************************************

    You don’t get it…..Not everyone is the POTUS hiding important information that will tell us if this man is a legal President..which all likelihood he is not…….The FRAUD has NO RIGHT to keep this information hidden….why go to the trouble and money of concealing every document that would expose who this FRAUD is unless there is something very wrong here…..get off your biased high horse and use some “common sense” if that is at all possible from you blinded OBOTS!!!

  11. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Black Lion says:
    October 2, 2009 at 8:56 am

    Maybe the birthers should listed to Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), who has made the best comments regarding the so called “birthers” and especially that so called American patriot, Glenn Beck…The Senator showed some common sense, which was needed due to all of the ridiculous statements that have been out there lately…

    “Only in America can you make that much money crying,” Graham said of Beck. “Glenn Beck is not aligned with any party. He is aligned with cynicism and there has always been a market for cynics. But we became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers.”

    “The Senator called the birther community that questions the president’s U.S. citizenship “crazy” and implored them to “knock this crap off” so the country could get on to more important matters. “I’m here to tell you that those who think the president was not born in Hawaii are crazy,” said Graham, who went on to dispel another myth: that Obama is a closet Muslim.”

    Speaking before The Atlantic’s First Draft of History conference, Graham also ventured to call “crazy” a recent article on Newsmax, laying out how a military coup could overtake the Obama administration

    Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/01/sen-graham-calls-beck-a-c_n_306434.html

    *******************************************************************

    Again another cop out from yet an ignorant elected official who didn’t do his job in the first place to vett this FRAUD they put in our White House….now he wants to blame the American people for asking questions they deserve answers to!!! Graham just sealed his pink slip big time!!!

  12. 10/2/2009Geoff says:

    If Kenya had no birth records of Barack Hussein Obama Jr. they would have nothing to hide and would simply give notice they have no available records on this man. They have not came forward with this statement, so one has to assume they have some sort of records on BHO. What other records could they have on file?

    One possibility is that they haven’t responded because they’re trying to hide something. The other possibility is that they haven’t responded because the Kenyan Ambassador to Italy has better things to do — like, say, take a nap.

    It’s one thing when you write a letter to your own government to expect a response and, if nothing else, the state of Hawaii should at least have some response to these inquiries directed their way. It’s another thing altogether when you ask an ambassador from one country posted in a second country about records relating to a man living in a third country. Particularly when it’s something that the person who received the letter probably thought was irreducibly silly.

  13. 10/2/2009siseduermapierda says:

    CAL says:
    October 2, 2009 at 10:41 am
    You seem to miss the point that all Leo is trying to do with this investigation is to prove that Obama was born in Hawaii.

    What’s to investigate? The proof he was born in Hawaii is in the index data: sex, name, date, city. Dr Fukino already gave that to us. “Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961″. Already proven.

  14. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Black Lion says:
    October 2, 2009 at 9:54 am

    Is there trouble in birtherland? Why? Well it looks like the marriage between the do nothing professional poker player and self proclaimed “Citizen’s attorney” Leo Donofrio and “TerriK” has broken up. According to Leo on his blog today he said the following…

    “As we move from blog reports to litigation, TerriK and I have decided it would be best for me to conduct my own investigation. We had previously decided that I would not take the step from spokesperson to actual counsel for her. But I will no longer be spokesperson for her either.”

    “Despite my best efforts, TerriK is not satisfied that I grasp the nuances of DoH Director Fukino’s parsing of words in the July 27, 2009 press release. Therefore, according to her most recent email I believe she will be speaking for herself or through other attorneys.”

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/leo-donofrio-is-no-longer-spokesperson-for-terrik/

    Interesting. Both individuals are misreading HI statute 338-18 and relevant privacy laws but cannot “grasp the nuances” of Dr. Fukino’s statement? I wonder how many “nuances” there are in the phrase President “Barack Obama was born in HI”. That seems pretty straightforward to most people. But then again I am not the “citizen’s attorney” so maybe there is some different way in English to interpret that phrase.

    *******************************************************************

    You wished….you blinded OBOT….this isn’t going away any time soon as much as you biased OBOTS would like it to…..it will hound this FRAUD in our house even if he makes it to 2012…..I doubt he will though because even common sense DemoCRAPS are now realizing this FRAUD is not only destroying their party…..but America as well…..Take your biased blinders off for a while and you might see the truth as well!!

  15. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    CAL says:
    October 2, 2009 at 10:41 am

    Black Lion,
    You seem to miss the point that all Leo is trying to do with this investigation is to prove that Obama was born in Hawaii. I do not know why Hawaii and you are so concerned with the successful outcome of such an investigation.
    As to your comment about attorney client priviledge with Bennett and Fukino, please read Leo’s blog. He lays out what Hawaiian statutes are in play here that cause Bennett to disclose to the public the opinion letter associated with the Fukino’s statement.
    If Leo is right or wrong, we will all find out in due time. There is nothing wrong with holding government accountable. That is what is great about being an American.

    ********************************************************************

    CAL…if you haven’t figured it out by now….the likes of Black Lion, Sue and other Obots who are squirming relentlessly on a daily basis are not TRUE AMERICANS and have never been about what real Patriots believe in….they are like their Marxist and Communist FRAUD leader who is all about destroying this country and its Constitution!!!

  16. 10/2/2009siseduermapierda says:

    old1 says:
    October 2, 2009 at 11:19 am
    *If Kenya had no birth records of Barack Hussein Obama Jr. they would have nothing to hide and would simply give notice they have no available records on this man. They have not came forward with this statement, so one has to assume they have some sort of records on BHO. What other records could they have on file? *

    Since when does saying nothing mean there’s something? Perhaps Kenya thinks this is too stupid to even dignify with a response. So far Hawaii has been polite, if you keep hounding them with emails and letters, eventually they will just go in the crank file. Where did you get the idea that just because you write to someone they are required to answer you? Hasn’t someone ignored your email or phone message and you realized the person doesn’t want to talk to you? Or sent a message to an old classmate’s Facebook and she ignored you?

  17. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    DCA says:
    October 2, 2009 at 11:41 am

    The Birther movement sustains a small industry of gathering donations via the internet. The birther commercial is a clever new twist to solicit money legally – they are basically selling bumper stickers for $30 – that part makes it totally legit.

    For not much more than a hundred dollars they can buy an hour at off times on local TV stations. At the 4th $30 donation in one hour the ad is completely paid for, and after that its just a few bucks to fulfill the bumper sticker purchase. The fax cost is nothing and it creates a record that they did it what they promised to do – it’s a simple PC-fax software application like WinFax that they load it up with your name and automatically send the 51 faxes – it is a free 1990 technology. The AG’s office can just discard it but the receipt is recorded by the sender – MUCH cheaper than sending actual registered mail that lawyers use.
    This only goes away when the last person stops sending money.

    *******************************************************************

    Another biased blind OBOT….I haven’t sent a penny and I will never let this die until the truth comes out and there are millions more like me!!

  18. 10/2/2009siseduermapierda says:

    Jacqlyn Smith says:
    October 2, 2009 at 12:06 pm
    *Obots who are squirming relentlessly on a daily basis*

    I don’t know Jacqlyn, I read your posts and you seem to be the one getting squirmier and more agitated every day. Example -

    “You wished….you blinded OBOT….this isn’t going away any time soon as much as you biased OBOTS would like it to…..it will hound this FRAUD in our house even if he makes it to 2012…..I doubt he will though because even common sense DemoCRAPS are now realizing this FRAUD is not only destroying their party…..”

    Sue and Black Lion don’t write things like that. You really should try to calm down. Oct 5th is still 3 days away.

  19. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    CAL says:
    October 2, 2009 at 10:41 am
    Black Lion,
    “You seem to miss the point that all Leo is trying to do with this investigation is to prove that Obama was born in Hawaii. I do not know why Hawaii and you are so concerned with the successful outcome of such an investigation.”

    I did not miss the point. President Obama has already proven that he was born in HI to most Americans, including Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. That is why 53% of Americans voted for him for the job of President. And if they don’t like the job he is doing, they can do what the Constitution provides and vote for someone else in 2012. The state of HI and I are only concerned with the law. The rule of law is not based on fishing expeditions for documents, affidavits from convicted felons, and false information such as a ban on travel to Pakistan and hearsay evidence that his grandmother said that she was there for his birth when it is clear that she did not say that.

    “As to your comment about attorney client priviledge with Bennett and Fukino, please read Leo’s blog. He lays out what Hawaiian statutes are in play here that cause Bennett to disclose to the public the opinion letter associated with the Fukino’s statement.
    If Leo is right or wrong, we will all find out in due time. There is nothing wrong with holding government accountable. That is what is great about being an American.”

    I did read Leo’s blog. And I read why he thinks that the information is not covered under attorney client privilege. He has a nice theory to support this idea, but the actual case law is not on his side. That is why he is hoping for the case he mentions to be decided in his favor so that he could actually have some case law to refer to if and when he ultimately decides to file his claim. We are still waiting for him to get off the sidelines and back up his so called theories with the actual filing of a case.

    I do believe that Leo will be partially successful. That is he will get the state of HI to release the index data that was already released to the public via the COLB. The problem with Leo’s theory is that all Dr. Fukino had to do is look at the COLB and it would provide her with all of the information she would need in order to make her statement that the President was born in HI. Leo won’t be able to get any additional information or vital documents released because of protections of privacy data under 338.18.

    I agree with holding the government accountable. President Obama has already met his burden of proof by releasing his COLB. That is what the Constitution requires. And as a proud American, that is the most important thing.

  20. 10/2/2009JeffM says:

    Black Lion said:

    What I am unable to understand is how Leo thinks that he will get past the privacy laws.

    You’re using the privacy portion of the UIPA to excuse the publicity portion of the UIPA. In this case, the UIPA was passed to prevent the “Indian Giver” scenario the Department of Health has been exhibiting ad nauseum.

    “We’d like to make a public announcement to the world that John Q. Public is indeed a Natural Born American Citizen (whatever that means). No, we can’t tell you how we came to that conclusion and we can’t show you the information gathered to come to that conclusion because, shhh… it’s a secret.”

    Nice try.

    Here’s what I want the DoH in Hawaii to say in response to their prior statements:

    “The COLB displayed on Factcheck.org was sent to Barack H. Obama on xx\xx\xxxx and is a factual representation of his vital records maintained on file by the Department of Health of Hawaii.”

    Gee, that wouldn’t be so hard now would it??? Somehow I doubt they would even do that because the document does not mirror his vital records.

  21. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    old1 says:
    October 2, 2009 at 11:19 am

    If Kenya had no birth records of Barack Hussein Obama Jr. they would have nothing to hide and would simply give notice they have no available records on this man. They have not came forward with this statement, so one has to assume they have some sort of records on BHO. What other records could they have on file?

    Why would someone confirm a negative? Whether or not they had records for Barack Hussein or Barack Hussein Jr. it is not anyone’s business other than the President’s and his immediate family. They have privacy laws and like most gov’t’s they have to follow them when it comes to the release of non-public information.

    The source I feel everyone is missing is the records from England. He was born a British Citizen under the British Nationality Act of 1948, therefore the Brits should have him on file. They could possibly be the source of his 1980s passport. So many unanswered questions. This would make a great movie but it would not be believable. Wake Up America!

    Why would England have any records of the President? He was not born in England. His mother was an American. So unless somehow the President’s American mother decided that she would rather have him raised as a subject of Great Britian than in the country of his birth, the United States, there would not be any records. The probable source of his passport in the 1980′s was the same source of his passport that he used in the 1960′s to travel from Hawaii to Indonesia, the United States. He was an American traveling on a US passport. There are no unanswered questions for most people, just for a small fringe group of people that refuse to believe in reality and choose to believe in ridiculous conspiracy theories.

  22. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    siseduermapierda says:
    October 2, 2009 at 12:13 pm

    Jacqlyn Smith says:
    October 2, 2009 at 12:06 pm
    *Obots who are squirming relentlessly on a daily basis*

    I don’t know Jacqlyn, I read your posts and you seem to be the one getting squirmier and more agitated every day. Example -

    “You wished….you blinded OBOT….this isn’t going away any time soon as much as you biased OBOTS would like it to…..it will hound this FRAUD in our house even if he makes it to 2012…..I doubt he will though because even common sense DemoCRAPS are now realizing this FRAUD is not only destroying their party…..”

    Sue and Black Lion don’t write things like that. You really should try to calm down. Oct 5th is still 3 days away.

    ********************************************************************

    I am not the one trying to stop the investigations and advocating for it…..so why don’t you sit back and relax….this isn’t going away anytime soon and you can bank on it….

  23. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Black Lion says…………I agree with holding the government accountable. President Obama has already met his burden of proof by releasing his COLB. That is what the Constitution requires. And as a proud American, that is the most important thing.

    **********************************************************************

    Yeah right….you sound just like the FRAUD in our White HOuse….before the election….no one is buying the BS rhetoric any more except for you few blinded biased OBOTS….Wake Up…..

    BTW…if the burden of proof had been answered….why are so many people still questioning this FRAUDS eligibilty…..it’s because the corruption is rampant and the questions have not been answered sufficeintly in the eyes of TRUE AMERICANS….WHICH YOU CLAIM TO BE!!!! NOT!!!!

  24. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    JeffM says:
    October 2, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Black Lion said:

    What I am unable to understand is how Leo thinks that he will get past the privacy laws.

    You’re using the privacy portion of the UIPA to excuse the publicity portion of the UIPA. In this case, the UIPA was passed to prevent the “Indian Giver” scenario the Department of Health has been exhibiting ad nauseum.

    “We’d like to make a public announcement to the world that John Q. Public is indeed a Natural Born American Citizen (whatever that means). No, we can’t tell you how we came to that conclusion and we can’t show you the information gathered to come to that conclusion because, shhh… it’s a secret.”

    Nice try.

    Here’s what I want the DoH in Hawaii to say in response to their prior statements:

    “The COLB displayed on Factcheck.org was sent to Barack H. Obama on xx\xx\xxxx and is a factual representation of his vital records maintained on file by the Department of Health of Hawaii.”

    Gee, that wouldn’t be so hard now would it??? Somehow I doubt they would even do that because the document does not mirror his vital records.

    ********************************************************************

    Jeff…not only that…but the DOH has never said they sent any document to the FRAUD’S campaign or to the Factcheck.org folks which if this is about privacy….then how did factcheck.org get this document supposedly with a seal on it from Hawaii???? Lot’s of wrong doing here!!!!

  25. 10/2/2009kj says:

    Black Lion:

    Have you considered that the Hawaii DOH index data may show that Mr. Obama’s original BC has been amended, perhaps more than once?

    What if the date(s) of the amendment(s) coincide(s) with his last visit to his grandmother, or the marriage of Stanley Ann to Lolo Soetoro, and/or the visit to Hawaii of Mr. Obama, Sr. after Mr. Obama returned to Hawaii about 1971? There would be logical reasons why Mr. Obama’s BC would be amended on those dates. It may be possible to infer the actual purpose of the amendment(s) from the contemporaneous circumstances of his family, although the information actually changed on the vital records will remain private.

    Leo’ point is that the release of the index is not a violation of privacy laws, especially since the Fukino has publicly referred to the records.

  26. 10/2/2009DCA says:

    “Another biased blind OBOT….I haven’t sent a penny and I will never let this die until the truth comes out and there are millions more like me!!”

    99% don’t have to contribute for it to be very successful, if just 1% of the committed contribute it works out just fine and can sustain a few of the activists with a sideline income with little real effort or need to produce much.

    Do the math. It is a great way to raise a little dough:
    1,000,000,000 x 1% of the true believers x $30 = $300,000

    Not bad. 1% is considered a really good response rate in the direct response business is the margins is this good.
    Cost of sales is nil beyond filing another lawsuit like all the rest gets dismissed with the first motion.

    The guy doing the birther commercial knows what he is doing.

  27. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    Jacqlyn Smith says:
    October 2, 2009 at 12:51 pm
    Black Lion says…………I agree with holding the government accountable. President Obama has already met his burden of proof by releasing his COLB. That is what the Constitution requires. And as a proud American, that is the most important thing.

    **********************************************************************

    Yeah right….you sound just like the FRAUD in our White HOuse….before the election….no one is buying the BS rhetoric any more except for you few blinded biased OBOTS….Wake Up…..

    Really? 535 members of Congress, including Republican Lindsey Graham of SC believed it. So did the former VP. Dick Cheney. If they didn’t then they would have raised an objection back in January as it called for in the Constitution of the United States. So including myself there must be 537 blinded biased OBOTS according to your theory.

    BTW…if the burden of proof had been answered….why are so many people still questioning this FRAUDS eligibilty…..it’s because the corruption is rampant and the questions have not been answered sufficeintly in the eyes of TRUE AMERICANS….WHICH YOU CLAIM TO BE!!!! NOT!!!!

    How many people are questioning the eligibility in your eyes? The birthers are delusional. You all think that there is a bunch of Americans obsessing over something that has already been proven. All we know for sure is that there are only about 100,000 or so. Since we have over 250 million people in the US, that is not even 1% of the population. What rampant corruption? Do you have some proof? Probably not. Who is a TRUE AMERICAN in your eyes? Only the few thousand that are delusional that believe in some far fetched conspiracy?

    True Americans believe in the rule of law. They understand that someone may be elected President that you did not vote for or did not want to win. But that is the way our system was set up. What you do is suck it up and deal with it. The Constitution gives you a remedy to resolve the issue. It is called an election. Get your candidate elected in 2012 if you are unhappy. But wasting your time and focusing your energy on violating the law and trying to get around the specific ways the Constutution states that a DULY ELECTED PRESIDENT can be removed is not the route a true American would go.

  28. 10/2/2009Pete says:

    Black Lion,

    You have your beliefs, I have many unanswered questions. I’m glad that Obama has proven to you that he is a Natural Born Citizen. Be that as it may, what would be SO difficult for any of the following to occur?

    1. The great state of Hawaii and DoH representatives has a press conference and hands out NUMEROUS COLB’s, just like the one on the internet, to a roomful of reporters. BTW, since the information is already on the internet, as you claim, NO VIOLATION of privacy. Simple, cheap, and effective.

    2. Have the Attorney General state that he has reviewed the on-line COLB document, and verifies all information on the record is consistent with his vital records, and they have a transaction date (payment) from the Obama Campaign and Obama congruent with the June 7, 2007 they released to the public. Simple and Effective. No Cost.

    3. Obama publically announces that he has NEVER claimed citizenship in another country, is not a Citizen in any other country, has never claimed rights of citizenship in any other country as an adult, never travelled on a foreign passport except as a minor. He will voluntarily release any and all passport history of travel into and out of the United States as an Adult. Further, he will release his college APPLICATION records, and Student Loan Information records. These will verify that he has never claimed anything but US Citizenship, at least as an adult. Further, he denies that he was ever adopted. Little more expensive, but extremely effective.

    The options above, I would prefer all three. I’m happy that you are content with the information that you have, really. The simple logic here is inescapable; there is no ‘reasonable’ explanation for failure to allow access to data he has already “released”!

    Black Lion, you can’t have ‘law’ if you’re unwilling to seek the truth. You can’t overlook the truth about Obama, and say you’re about the ‘law’.

  29. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    kj says:
    October 2, 2009 at 1:09 pm
    Black Lion:

    Have you considered that the Hawaii DOH index data may show that Mr. Obama’s original BC has been amended, perhaps more than once?

    What if the date(s) of the amendment(s) coincide(s) with his last visit to his grandmother, or the marriage of Stanley Ann to Lolo Soetoro, and/or the visit to Hawaii of Mr. Obama, Sr. after Mr. Obama returned to Hawaii about 1971? There would be logical reasons why Mr. Obama’s BC would be amended on those dates. It may be possible to infer the actual purpose of the amendment(s) from the contemporaneous circumstances of his family, although the information actually changed on the vital records will remain private.

    Leo’ point is that the release of the index is not a violation of privacy laws, especially since the Fukino has publicly referred to the records.
    ___________________________________________________________________
    kj, no I did not consider that because Dr. Fukino specifically stated that President Obama was born in Hawaii. All I needed to hear to confirm the COLB was “born in Hawaii. So if the index data had possibly been amended, it would not change the fact that he was born in HI. And being born in HI is the only issue on the table. As far as who is father is, what hospital he was born in, and what address his parents lived at are all irrelevant. The Constitution does not ask those questions so I don’t care.

    Besides there has been no evidence submitted to warrant questioning if the data has been amended. That is why the US Constitution has the full faith in state records clause. Because the state says so, we are required to believe it. If you question this record then you need to question any record that has ever been producted or submitted.

    What would be the logical reasons that his records would have been amended? Again the only record that matters is whether or not he was born in the US. All of your other questions are really speculation, which is protected information anyway. Basically you want the state of HI to release information that has no bearing on whether or not the Barack Obama is eligible to be President. That is not going to happen. Index records will just say the following, a boy named Barack Obama was born in HI on August 4th 1961. Period. Nothing else is relevant nor should it be.

  30. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    Pete says:
    October 2, 2009 at 2:25 pm
    Black Lion,

    You have your beliefs, I have many unanswered questions. I’m glad that Obama has proven to you that he is a Natural Born Citizen. Be that as it may, what would be SO difficult for any of the following to occur?

    1. The great state of Hawaii and DoH representatives has a press conference and hands out NUMEROUS COLB’s, just like the one on the internet, to a roomful of reporters. BTW, since the information is already on the internet, as you claim, NO VIOLATION of privacy. Simple, cheap, and effective.

    2. Have the Attorney General state that he has reviewed the on-line COLB document, and verifies all information on the record is consistent with his vital records, and they have a transaction date (payment) from the Obama Campaign and Obama congruent with the June 7, 2007 they released to the public. Simple and Effective. No Cost.

    3. Obama publically announces that he has NEVER claimed citizenship in another country, is not a Citizen in any other country, has never claimed rights of citizenship in any other country as an adult, never travelled on a foreign passport except as a minor. He will voluntarily release any and all passport history of travel into and out of the United States as an Adult. Further, he will release his college APPLICATION records, and Student Loan Information records. These will verify that he has never claimed anything but US Citizenship, at least as an adult. Further, he denies that he was ever adopted. Little more expensive, but extremely effective.

    The options above, I would prefer all three. I’m happy that you are content with the information that you have, really. The simple logic here is inescapable; there is no ‘reasonable’ explanation for failure to allow access to data he has already “released”!

    Black Lion, you can’t have ‘law’ if you’re unwilling to seek the truth. You can’t overlook the truth about Obama, and say you’re about the ‘law’.
    ___________________________________________________________________
    Pete, simple answer. Obama proved it to 53% of the US population. Did we require any of the previous 43 Presidents to do this? No. Why should he answer questions that have nothing to do with the law nor being President? Just because there are a fringe bunch of Americans that want to believe in conspiracy theories and innuendo?

    1. The State of HI has already stated that the President was born in HI. That was in an official statement. So unless you think that the state is lying, then that should be suffcient.

    2. Simple but irrelevant. What does that have to do with being eligible to be President? Nothing. The released COLB stated that the President was born in HI. The state of HI was confirmed he was born in Hawaii. What more proof could you need. This is definately more information and evidence that was ever released by any other President or candidate. Besides the US Constitution is very specific in its requirements for President and confirming when the Obama campaign received the COLB is not one of them.

    3. Why should he make this announcement? As long as he was born in the US, that is all he needs for proof. Now if you are trying to change the definition of what a natural born citizen is, you are making a different argument. But to make this statement when there is NO LEGALLY ADMISSIBLE EVIDENCE of him being a citizen of any other country is ridiculous.

    Never travelled on a foreign passport execpt as a minor? What are you talking about? Since he was born in the US, the only passport he would have ever travelled on was a US passport. So he would be making a statement regarding something that could not be true. That makes no sense. Adoption? No proof but he should address that. Even though the SCOTUS ruling in the Perkins v. Elg case specifically addressed this issue and stated that a minor cannot lose or renounce their US citizenship.

    Release all of his school records and applications. Really. Even though he was born in the US. He went to junior high and high school in the US. Went to college in the US. Yet you want him to supply additional documentation, that is not required by the Constitution or the law, to satisfy what? Unproven innuendo? That is really unbelievable.

    Pete, you cannot have a rule of law if you change the rules. You are adding additional requirements for President Obama that has never been required before. Although there has been no proof to support any of the allegations you mention, he should address them anyway and supply additional proof. This is not the law it is a witchhunt. And fortunately a majority of the American people recognize that and are unwilling to go along with it.

  31. 10/2/2009Bob says:

    Leo’ point is that the release of the index is not a violation of privacy laws, especially since the Fukino has publicly referred to the records.

    Donofrio reporting that the index data has been released.

    Index data indicates a male named Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Hawaii.

  32. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Black Lion says:
    October 2, 2009 at 2:23 pm

    Jacqlyn Smith says:
    October 2, 2009 at 12:51 pm
    Black Lion says…………I agree with holding the government accountable. President Obama has already met his burden of proof by releasing his COLB. That is what the Constitution requires. And as a proud American, that is the most important thing.

    **********************************************************************

    Yeah right….you sound just like the FRAUD in our White HOuse….before the election….no one is buying the BS rhetoric any more except for you few blinded biased OBOTS….Wake Up…..

    Really? 535 members of Congress, including Republican Lindsey Graham of SC believed it. So did the former VP. Dick Cheney. If they didn’t then they would have raised an objection back in January as it called for in the Constitution of the United States. So including myself there must be 537 blinded biased OBOTS according to your theory.

    BTW…if the burden of proof had been answered….why are so many people still questioning this FRAUDS eligibilty…..it’s because the corruption is rampant and the questions have not been answered sufficeintly in the eyes of TRUE AMERICANS….WHICH YOU CLAIM TO BE!!!! NOT!!!!

    How many people are questioning the eligibility in your eyes? The birthers are delusional. You all think that there is a bunch of Americans obsessing over something that has already been proven. All we know for sure is that there are only about 100,000 or so. Since we have over 250 million people in the US, that is not even 1% of the population. What rampant corruption? Do you have some proof? Probably not. Who is a TRUE AMERICAN in your eyes? Only the few thousand that are delusional that believe in some far fetched conspiracy?

    True Americans believe in the rule of law. They understand that someone may be elected President that you did not vote for or did not want to win. But that is the way our system was set up. What you do is suck it up and deal with it. The Constitution gives you a remedy to resolve the issue. It is called an election. Get your candidate elected in 2012 if you are unhappy. But wasting your time and focusing your energy on violating the law and trying to get around the specific ways the Constutution states that a DULY ELECTED PRESIDENT can be removed is not the route a true American would go.

    ********************************************************************

    So because our government is complicit in this cover up we should accept it??? And yes….we TRUE AMERICANS do believe in following the letter of the law….the Costitution….You underestimate the power of TRUE AMERICANS….as I said…you wouldn’t understand because you are not a TRUE AMERICAN…. all you are is a citizen..if that…(cause I’m not sure you pass the test)…. with the blinders still in place allowing your government and the corrupt media to control your thinking….in spite of your bias and ignorance we Patriots will save your sorry A$$ too!!! BTW…I have voted for candidates that didn’t win…..but they didn’t lose to a THUG and a FRAUD like the one you DemoCRAPS put forward in 2008!

  33. 10/2/2009siseduermapierda says:

    Bob says:
    October 2, 2009 at 3:34 pm
    *Donofrio reporting that the index data has been released.

    Index data indicates a male named Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Hawaii.*

    Well bust my buttons, imagine that! Barack Obama II said he was born in Hawaii. His COLB says he was born in Hawaii. Dr Fukino said Obama was born in Hawaii. And now gosh darn it and I’ll be, the index data says Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Hawaii. All that fussing and calling them liars, but now the PROOF Barack Obama and Dr Fukino were telling you the TRUTH. What a revelation! Whodathunkit. Oooo, oooo and just in time for Oct 5th. Oooooo

  34. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Pete, you cannot have a rule of law if you change the rules. You are adding additional requirements for President Obama that has never been required before. Although there has been no proof to support any of the allegations you mention, he should address them anyway and supply additional proof. This is not the law it is a witchhunt. And fortunately a majority of the American people recognize that and are unwilling to go along with it.

    ******************************************************************

    Black Lion….No one changed the rules…all other Presidents have given this and more information to fill their libraries…..the FRAUD is the only one to date missing all of the information that Pete asked why can’t he supply it…..all suspicion would go away and then he might be able to lead if he is legal…..which I highly doubt!!!

  35. 10/2/2009Geoff says:

    Here are what I would expect as responses by the birthers if each of these three things were done, notwithstanding their relevance:

    1. The great state of Hawaii and DoH representatives has a press conference and hands out NUMEROUS COLB’s, just like the one on the internet, to a roomful of reporters. BTW, since the information is already on the internet, as you claim, NO VIOLATION of privacy. Simple, cheap, and effective.

    Birthers will claim fraud, not the real birth certificate, will claim they still need to see the original birth certificate. Nothing will be settled.

    2. Have the Attorney General state that he has reviewed the on-line COLB document, and verifies all information on the record is consistent with his vital records, and they have a transaction date (payment) from the Obama Campaign and Obama congruent with the June 7, 2007 they released to the public. Simple and Effective. No Cost.

    Birthers will claim Hawaii AG is part of the coverup, still no airtight documentary evidence, not done in accordance with Hawaii law and so not reliable. Nothing will be settled.

    3. Obama publically announces that he has NEVER claimed citizenship in another country, is not a Citizen in any other country, has never claimed rights of citizenship in any other country as an adult, never travelled on a foreign passport except as a minor. He will voluntarily release any and all passport history of travel into and out of the United States as an Adult. Further, he will release his college APPLICATION records, and Student Loan Information records. These will verify that he has never claimed anything but US Citizenship, at least as an adult. Further, he denies that he was ever adopted. Little more expensive, but extremely effective.

    Birhters will claim that Obama being forced to say these things is an admission that these attacks are taking a toll, that regardless of what he claims he’s lying, and that because he’s president and has many of his people in high places throughout government they’ve undoubtedly conspired to hide the true evidence surrounding his early life (such as the multiple passports, the renunciation of US citizenship, the Kenyan birth, whatever). Moreover, his announcement will raise more questions. (Witness the kerfuffle over the Hawaii’s DOH person’s use of “natural-born” with a hyphen.) Nothing will be settled.

    Even if someone could go into the location where the actual records are kept and retrieved Obama’s actual, original birth certificate, people would claim it’s a forgery, etc. And so on. As the famous movie quote goes, “There’s no way to win.”

  36. 10/2/2009Sue says:

    Another little pearl Donofrio recieved.

    From: Okubo, Janice S.
    To: [KingsKid email redacted]
    Cc: Onaka, Alvin T.
    Sent: Thursday, October 01, 2009 1:00 PM
    Subject: RE: Request for Information

    Aloha Ms. Gotto,

    There is no record that responds to this request.

    Janice Okubo
    Communications Office
    Hawaii State Department of Health

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-reverses-course-releases-index-data-for-president-obama-stanley-ann-and-barack-sr-no-records-for-maya-exist/

  37. 10/2/2009Observer says:

    Bob says:
    October 2, 2009 at 3:34 pm
    Leo’ point is that the release of the index is not a violation of privacy laws, especially since the Fukino has publicly referred to the records.

    Donofrio reporting that the index data has been released.

    Index data indicates a male named Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Hawaii.

    As far as Leo is concerned, that’s what he’s been saying all along. His point is to eliminate the smokescreen and get on to defining NBC with info known.

    It was also revealed that other gov. agencies are the ones to be contacted re: such things as divorce records. And there is also the strange entries of “bride and groom” rather than parents – followed up by some kind of “not understanding” the request made when it was explicit in its asking. Probably more fudgery going on to try and calm the growing restless public’s queries.

  38. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    Since your hero Leo has confirmed that the index data says what the COLB and Dr. Fukino stated, that President Barack Obama was born in HI, is that enough for you Jacqlyn Smith and Pete? I mean it proves that Obama was born in the US and that his parents were married.

    BIRTH INDEX
    OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING

    CHILD
    OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
    GENDER M

    MARRIAGE INDEX
    SORTED BY BRIDE
    OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING

    GROOM
    OBAMA, BARACK HUSSEIN

    BRIDE
    DUNHAN, STANLEY ANN

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-reverses-course-releases-index-data-for-president-obama-stanley-ann-and-barack-sr-no-records-for-maya-exist/

    Also proven was that the President’s sister was not born in HI. So that theory that the birther’s pushed how the President’s COLB was actually his sisters should go away also.

    So does this change anything. Dr. Fukino had already stated that the President was born in HI. The President had already stated he was born in HI. We already knew that his parents were married in HI. We already knew that his sister was born in Indonesia. So in other words you required additional proof from the President and from the state of HI spokesperson. Interesting.

    So indirectly this proves that Lucas Smith was lying. Which is such a surprise that a convicted felon and forger would actually lie in an affidavit. But also this shows that a majority of Orly’s so called evidence is not worth the paper they are printed on. But the ultimate question, will this satisfy anyone on the birther bandwagon? We will have to wait and see.

    Jacqlyn Smith says:
    October 2, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Black Lion….No one changed the rules…all other Presidents have given this and more information to fill their libraries…..the FRAUD is the only one to date missing all of the information that Pete asked why can’t he supply it…..all suspicion would go away and then he might be able to lead if he is legal…..which I highly doubt!!!

    Just one point. When were the Presidential libraries opened? After they had served their terms. So if you want to see all of that information, just wait until President Obama opens his Presidential library. Since that is now the precedent you have established.

    You said that the President “might be able to lead if he is legal…..which I highly doubt.” Is this still your contention? You were so sure that he was not born in HI. So are we now moving on to the so called 2 parents must be citizens theory to try and disqualify President Obama?

  39. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    Observer says:
    October 2, 2009 at 4:09 pm
    Bob says:
    October 2, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    As far as Leo is concerned, that’s what he’s been saying all along. His point is to eliminate the smokescreen and get on to defining NBC with info known.

    The COLB and the statement of Dr. Fukino was known all along also.

    It was also revealed that other gov. agencies are the ones to be contacted re: such things as divorce records. And there is also the strange entries of “bride and groom” rather than parents – followed up by some kind of “not understanding” the request made when it was explicit in its asking. Probably more fudgery going on to try and calm the growing restless public’s queries.

    That is because Leo is an idiot. He requested birth data. Birth index data will just confirm the birth. Not the parents, hospital, nor anything else. Index data is just for birth name and gender. He also recived marriage index data. That showed that a male named Barack Obama and a female named Stanley Ann Dunham were married. He is making a mountain out of a molehill regarding it didn’t specifically state that they were his parents. Is he really that dense? I believe that having the same name would make Barack Obama the father and we already knew that Stanley Ann was the mother. If he has any additional questions he can check with the COLB, which has the same information.

    The marriage index data was probably going to be his next question. Remember vital statistics are marriage, death, birth, and divorce. And for divorce we have already seen that data, but he was told who to contact to get it. The question is will the birthers accept the obvious or claim that there is still some sort of conspiracy. Let us wait and observe.

  40. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    Observer says:
    October 2, 2009 at 4:09 pm
    Bob says:
    October 2, 2009 at 3:34 pm

    “And there is also the strange entries of “bride and groom” rather than parents – followed up by some kind of “not understanding” the request made when it was explicit in its asking. Probably more fudgery going on to try and calm the growing restless public’s queries.”

    The reason for the bride and groom information was that Leo’s friend KingsKid requested index data for Barack Obama and Barack Obama II. The birth info would be the only index data for the BO II and the marriage index data would be the marriage information. It is really quite simple. And he received nothing for Maya Soetero because she was not born nor married in HI. So for Leo to say he is “not understanding” the response is disingenous at best or scary at worst because that would indicate that he did not understand what was requested.

  41. 10/2/2009Bob says:

    His point is to eliminate the smokescreen and get on to defining NBC with info known.

    Except there was no smokescreen. In the two-parent lawsuit that Donofrio will never file, he could simply stipulate that Obama was born in Hawaii and move on.

    And how’s that smokescreen elimination going: Are you ready to concede Obama was born in Hawaii? Or will there be even more arcane parsing of words to conclude that everyone is lying about this matter?

    It was also revealed that other gov. agencies are the ones to be contacted re: such things as divorce records.

    Which was already known: Vital statistics are births, marriages, and deaths; that’s it. (Of course records of divorce lawsuits would be with the judiciary, as that’s where the records for all lawsuits are.) Amazing what is considered “revealing.”

    And there is also the strange entries of “bride and groom” rather than parents – followed up by some kind of “not understanding” the request made when it was explicit in its asking.

    Reading a request for “vital records of Mr. Barack H. Obama, Jr, Mr. Barack H. Obama, II, and/or Mr. Barry Soetoro or any other name used by that party” to include a search for simply “Barack Obama” (as Obama as surely once referred to himself without the “Jr.” or “II”) is not all that strange. And totally irrelevant to Obama’s place of birth.

    Probably more fudgery going on to try and calm the growing restless public’s queries.

    Or possibly an attempt to pre-emptively fulfill the obvious follow-up request. And totally irrelevant to Obama’s place of birth.

    But thanks for so aptly demonstrating Geoff’s point that nothing can settled to the satisfaction by those who refuse to accept what it is obvious.

  42. 10/2/2009siseduermapierda says:

    JeffM says:
    October 2, 2009 at 12:30 pm
    *Here’s what I want the DoH in Hawaii to say in response to their prior statements:

    “The COLB displayed on Factcheck.org was sent to Barack H. Obama on xx\xx\xxxx and is a factual representation of his vital records maintained on file by the Department of Health of Hawaii.”*

    You don’t need it. You have the index data. The index data says Barack Obama II was born in Hawaii. The index data says Stanley Dunham and Barack Obama were married. The time has come to admit and accept Barack Obama II was born in Hawaii to Stanley and Barack Obama and move on to the dual citizen, two parent citizen argument. Or fold and go home. You don’t need to know anything else in the vital records to argue dual citizen, two citizen parent. I guarantee Leo is going to tell the faithful the very same thing within the next week. Really, try to keep up.

  43. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Black Lion says:
    October 2, 2009 at 4:16 pm

    Since your hero Leo has confirmed that the index data says what the COLB and Dr. Fukino stated, that President Barack Obama was born in HI, is that enough for you Jacqlyn Smith and Pete? I mean it proves that Obama was born in the US and that his parents were married.

    BIRTH INDEX
    OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING

    CHILD
    OBAMA II, BARACK HUSSEIN
    GENDER M

    MARRIAGE INDEX
    SORTED BY BRIDE
    OFFICE OF HEALTH STATUS MONITORING

    GROOM
    OBAMA, BARACK HUSSEIN

    BRIDE
    DUNHAN, STANLEY ANN

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/10/02/doh-reverses-course-releases-index-data-for-president-obama-stanley-ann-and-barack-sr-no-records-for-maya-exist/

    Also proven was that the President’s sister was not born in HI. So that theory that the birther’s pushed how the President’s COLB was actually his sisters should go away also.

    So does this change anything. Dr. Fukino had already stated that the President was born in HI. The President had already stated he was born in HI. We already knew that his parents were married in HI. We already knew that his sister was born in Indonesia. So in other words you required additional proof from the President and from the state of HI spokesperson. Interesting.

    So indirectly this proves that Lucas Smith was lying. Which is such a surprise that a convicted felon and forger would actually lie in an affidavit. But also this shows that a majority of Orly’s so called evidence is not worth the paper they are printed on. But the ultimate question, will this satisfy anyone on the birther bandwagon? We will have to wait and see.

    Jacqlyn Smith says:
    October 2, 2009 at 3:45 pm

    Black Lion….No one changed the rules…all other Presidents have given this and more information to fill their libraries…..the FRAUD is the only one to date missing all of the information that Pete asked why can’t he supply it…..all suspicion would go away and then he might be able to lead if he is legal…..which I highly doubt!!!

    Just one point. When were the Presidential libraries opened? After they had served their terms. So if you want to see all of that information, just wait until President Obama opens his Presidential library. Since that is now the precedent you have established.

    You said that the President “might be able to lead if he is legal…..which I highly doubt.” Is this still your contention? You were so sure that he was not born in HI. So are we now moving on to the so called 2 parents must be citizens theory to try and disqualify President Obama?

    ********************************************************************

    WAH..WAH…WAH….He’s not leading…nothing is getting done….the INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY knows it to…..more than half the country is calling for his records…..no one except you ridiculous OBOTS buy into his bull$$it….I am so sure he is not qualified according to the Consitution….both born on US soil(highly doubtful) and to two US citizens(completely factual he does not meet this part of the qualification at all….he even says it in his book)….that is why I am so sure…..his fake COLB will never hold up in a court of law…..WAKE UP and face it….you were fooled by a THUG and you can’t admit it!!! WAH…WAH..WAH! He won’t have a library because he will be using the prison library with his buddy REZSKO!!

  44. 10/2/2009Observer says:

    Another vetting problem in Hawaii? Their regs speak to proof of divorce if already previously married. How’d Obama I “groom” them into becoming a “groom” in their files? He was married at the time.

  45. 10/2/2009Sharon 2 says:

    Since your hero Leo has confirmed that the index data says what the COLB and Dr. Fukino stated, that President Barack Obama was born in HI, (BL)

    Comment from Leo’s blog with his response:

    Is that right that
    1. there is a birth record about BHO on file.
    None about Maya since she was born in Jakarta, means that BHO was born in Hawaii?

    [ed. that's not established either way by this.]

  46. 10/2/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    One of the best post I have seen about the FRAUD lately…found at…describes what is going on to a tea!!

    http://rightwingnews.com/author/warner-todd-huston/

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    The Prattler in Chief, Barack ‘Hessayin’ Obama
    (Read all posts from Warner Todd Huston)

    Remember back in school when the class braggart began to talk of his conquests in the bedroom and how everyone laughed at his nonsense? Or you have that one that fellow at work that has always done everything and been everywhere and is prepared to tell you about it at the drop of a hat?…

    …Read more

    Remember back in school when the class braggart began to talk of his conquests in the bedroom and how everyone laughed at his nonsense? Or you have that one that fellow at work that has always done everything and been everywhere and is prepared to tell you about it at the drop of a hat? Of course, the second these guys opens their mouths people roll their eyes and make that opening and closing movement with their hands denoting the blah, blah, blah they are hearing. Inescapably, as they talk they are discounted as full of it by everyone they encounter. It’s all stuff and nonsense, hot air and blather, eliciting sighs of annoyance instead of contributing to useful conversation.

    Apparently that guy has become our president. Meet Barack “Blah, Blah” Obama.

    President Obama has been everywhere at once laying out his talking points like a B52 carpet bombing Dresden. He’s seemingly on TV 24/7. He’s the Billy Mays of the White House. On second thought, he’s more like the Cliff Claven of Washington at this point.

    There he is saying that he fixed the economy. Meanwhile job losses continue to rise every month. Now he’s on TV telling us that we’ll have socialized healthcare for everyone in a few weeks and he makes “deals” with big pharma and others assuring them that it’s all a lock. Yet Congress rolls its collective eyes and tells him his “deals” aren’t binding on them. Oh, wait, there he is over there saying that he’s being all tough on those Iranian dudes, even as the Mad Mullahs consistently thumb their noses at him. Wait, here he is flying off to Copenhagen to cajole them there Olympics fellers into giving his pal Mayor Daley and his Chicago mob buddies the 2016 Olympics… then the IOC laughs him out of the country on the very first “no” vote.

    And now we get word that House Democrats have wholly ignored Barack “Hessayin” Obama’s lofty claims that his administration would foster the most “transparent” government evah! House Dems have waived read-the-bill transparency rules more than two dozen times just this year. They’ve done it so often that it seems as if they have already voted “yes” on the next ten bills that Pelosi is going to submit to the floor sometime in the next three years… whatever they might be, and whenever she might get around to having them written. That’ll save some time, right?

    Of course, this is in direct violation of President Barack “Blah, Blah” Obama’s claims that all bills would be on line for five days before anyone gets to vote on them. It’s in direct contravention to Obama’s lofty claims of government transparency. He said it, they rolled their eyes.

    Seriously, does anyone even listen to a word this president is saying anymore? Is his constant hot air even relevant? Is anything he’s saying based in the real world at all? Or has Barack “Hessayin” Obama just become that guy that everyone rolls their eyes at and otherwise ignores?

    If Obamacare is like the Post Office, perhaps the best man to tell us of it all is the Cliff Claven of Washington DC?

    He’s sayin’ it, ya know? And if Barack “Hessayin” Obama is talking… well, everyone is rolling their eyes.

  47. 10/2/2009Black Lion says:

    Observer says:
    October 2, 2009 at 7:07 pm
    Another vetting problem in Hawaii? Their regs speak to proof of divorce if already previously married. How’d Obama I “groom” them into becoming a “groom” in their files? He was married at the time.

    He wasn’t married in the US. Additionally it is not the job of the state of HI to vet if Mr. Obama’s father was married before he married Stanley Ann. That is how he became the “groom” These questions are getting silly. Leo got the information he requested. Now he is trying to imply that it doesn’t prove anything. Just like the commenters here. You were pushing for Leo to get the so called index information. Now that it was released and it supports the COLB and the President, some people are still unwilling to believe the evidence. They still claim that it is a fake and that the President is lying. So we have basically discovered that no matter what evidence is released there are people that won’t believe it. It will never be enough.

  48. 10/2/2009Pete says:

    Black Lion,

    I have read both yours and Geoff reply that in summation states that:

    1. Release of the data, and verification, is crazy because Hawaii has said he was NBC.
    2. No birther will believe the documents if their is a complete disclosure.
    3. Barack Obama is being held to a ‘higher standard’.
    4. This is a witch hunt.
    5. Barack Obama has no legal evidence of citizenship in another country.

    Here is my reply to these points:
    1. Like Thomas Jefferson, I am a bit untrustworthy about government, so pretend I am from Missouri and just “show me”. Or if you prefer a quote from Ronald Reagan “trust but verify”.
    2. Full disclosure is the fastest way to make it go away. I said that when this blog opened, and I’m still saying it.
    3. Higher Standard? Nope, same standard must be eligible for office. See number 1.
    4. Witch hunt? See number 2.
    5. Barack Obama has claimed dual citizenship, via his website! Your saying that can’t be discussed in court! Ludicrous. BTW, Obama has never stated that he is not STILL a citizen of Kenya.

    I gave simple ways for questions to be answered, cheap and effective. It will only get uglier, better to put this one to bed quickly.

  49. 10/2/2009The Right Side of Life » Eligibility Update: HI DoH Begins Revealing Data; Judge Responds in Kerchner v. Obama says:

    [...] In his continuing quest to demand answers to the question of how Hawaii Department of Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino could proclaim Mr. Obama to be a natural born citizen, attorney Leo Donofrio has, for the first time known to the eligibility movement, received an actual response from the Department with respect to some semblance of Mr. Obama’s background: The Hawaii Department of Health has reversed course.  They now admit that they do -  in fact – make some vital records information available to the public.  This admission reverses their prior response pattern indicating that “no information” could be released. [...]

  50. 10/3/2009brygenon says:

    Black Lion says:

    Observer says:

    Another vetting problem in Hawaii? Their regs speak to proof of divorce if already previously married. How’d Obama I “groom” them into becoming a “groom” in their files? He was married at the time.

    He wasn’t married in the US. Additionally it is not the job of the state of HI to vet if Mr. Obama’s father was married before he married Stanley Ann. That is how he became the “groom” These questions are getting silly.

    Hey Mr. Lion: like your posts, but I’ll pick on your line, “These questions are getting silly.”
    Getting silly are they?

    Yes, Phil was silly to read Dr. Fukino saying, “the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health”, then pretend to theorize she meant the Democratic National Convention’s letter nominating Obama. You are right about “silly”; it’s the “are getting” part that is laughable.

    Until quite recently, our host Phil was happy to spread whatever Orly Taitz spewed. What stopped him wasn’t the falsehoods. Phil, pretty late in the game, questioned her effectiveness, but even at that point he was still happy repeat her attacks here. Phil stopped advocating for Taitz when she turned on him. On her blog Taitz shouted about “EXPOSING THE OBOTS DRESSED AS PATRIOTS”. Her list included “Phil from TheRightSideofLife”.

  51. 10/3/2009Phil says:

    brygenon,

    Yes, Phil was silly to read Dr. Fukino saying, “the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health”, then pretend to theorize she meant the Democratic National Convention’s letter nominating Obama. You are right about “silly”; it’s the “are getting” part that is laughable.

    While it is true that you have thought everything regarding the eligibility question has been “silly” (or worse) since you’ve begun visiting my site and haranguing fellow commenters and myself about the issues I cover here (which, of course, is your prerogative, until you get uncivil about it), simply show me where I’m wrong.

    And, if you cannot show me where I’m wrong in my theory (without resorting to such ad hominems as you’ve repeatedly thrown against me), this doesn’t necessarily mean that my theory is correct, but it does mean that perhaps you should do some further research on exactly how I’m wrong in my theory.

    Not only this, but remember: I never explicitly claimed that the DoH had anything on their record RE: the DNC candidate certification.

    Use your brain. I know you have one. Get over your seething bias against me and my ilk and get back to the facts.

    Until quite recently, our host Phil was happy to spread whatever Orly Taitz spewed. What stopped him wasn’t the falsehoods. Phil, pretty late in the game, questioned her effectiveness, but even at that point he was still happy repeat her attacks here. Phil stopped advocating for Taitz when she turned on him. On her blog Taitz shouted about “EXPOSING THE OBOTS DRESSED AS PATRIOTS”. Her list included “Phil from TheRightSideofLife”.

    As you have every reason to know, I have upheld a policy on my site to not question how other sites operate.

    Regarding the “falsehoods” as you call them, I already know that you’re a lost cause with respect to persuading you to what I think; I have plenty of evidence here on my site that shows that you have already dug your heels in, so there’s no use in my attempting to convince you otherwise on that topic. Again, that’s clearly your prerogative.

    As far as Dr. Taitz is concerned, I wish her the best in all of her endeavors, just like I wish anyone else the best in what they do. Life is way too short for individuals to not get busy going about trying and/or perfecting what they’re Called to do in this life. Far be it for me to put further encumbrances in their way.

    Along those lines, as I’ve demonstrated on my site, I think failure is an excellent disciplinary measure that the Lord incorporated into the time-space continuum; it is sometimes only by failure — and the willingness to learn from such failure — that one then learns how to succeed the next time. Further, it is quite fortunate that the founders of America put it similar measures in the Constitution such that the People — upon whom all power and authority in this great country ultimately rest — can always, always, always push forward and demand the best out of their contemporaries.

    You want to keep throwing barbs and darts of quasi-poison against me and my ilk? I’m certainly not going to stop you. Sometimes I do have to wonder if you really think you’re going to accomplish anything truly meaningful and positive out of such actions. But again, that’s your prerogative, and lots of us have already perfected shields against such attacks.

    As a final word regarding Dr. Taitz, yes, of course it’s true that she’s talked not so kindly about me and my site on her site. And that’s fine. I don’t really care. If I did, I’d specifically address those things. But, that’s not what really matters to me. In reality, it is individuals such as yourself that have gone far further than anything that Dr. Taitz would say in terms of harassing, haranguing and brow-beating me and my site as well as those associated with it. Yet again, that’s fine — that’s your prerogative.

    I know I’m certainly not going anywhere.

    -Phil

  52. 10/3/2009Melvin E. Holliday says:

    I continue to be amazed at the arguments for and against the subject of constitutionality to hold office of President by Barrack Obama. Not even considering the facts that both his parents were not American citizens which should automatically disqualify him. The failure to produce one legal document of proof is not only amazing but dumbfounding. The reluctance of Obama to bring this situation to a close is mystifying. Were I accused of a crime and I had proof that I was not guilty I would most certainly produce the evidence. There are simple elements here that keep getting hashed over and over for no apparent reason. I won’t be happy until the outcome has been proven one way or another. Obama must realize this so with every passing day he continues to make himself look more and more guilty. He either has an ultimate plan of making everyone involved look bad or he is as guilty as sin and ….we the people will prevail.

  53. 10/3/2009Black Lion says:

    Melvin E. Holliday says:
    October 3, 2009 at 3:54 pm
    I continue to be amazed at the arguments for and against the subject of constitutionality to hold office of President by Barrack Obama. Not even considering the facts that both his parents were not American citizens which should automatically disqualify him. The failure to produce one legal document of proof is not only amazing but dumbfounding. The reluctance of Obama to bring this situation to a close is mystifying. Were I accused of a crime and I had proof that I was not guilty I would most certainly produce the evidence. There are simple elements here that keep getting hashed over and over for no apparent reason. I won’t be happy until the outcome has been proven one way or another. Obama must realize this so with every passing day he continues to make himself look more and more guilty. He either has an ultimate plan of making everyone involved look bad or he is as guilty as sin and ….we the people will prevail.
    ____________________________________________________________________
    If you could just point out to us where in the Constitution that it states that both of your parents need to be US citizens for a person to be eligible to be President then your statement would make sense. OK, if not the Constitution then a law? Please enlighten us. What is mystifying is how you just make up requirements that are not in the Constitution. And by the way his mother was an American citizen.

    If I was accused of a crime then I agree with you, I would supply evidence of my innocence. However the President is not being charged with a crime and the Constitution has a remedy if you want to charge the President with something, that is Congress. Either way if I recall if you are accusing some of something you should have some evidence. So far there has been no legitimate evidence submitted. And by the way he has released the suffcient evidence to prove where he was born. If you choose not to believe it, then that is up to you and the less than 1% that actually believe that. The bottom line is that he was born in HI and is eligible to be President.

  54. 10/3/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Black Lion says:
    October 3, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Melvin E. Holliday says:
    October 3, 2009 at 3:54 pm
    I continue to be amazed at the arguments for and against the subject of constitutionality to hold office of President by Barrack Obama. Not even considering the facts that both his parents were not American citizens which should automatically disqualify him. The failure to produce one legal document of proof is not only amazing but dumbfounding. The reluctance of Obama to bring this situation to a close is mystifying. Were I accused of a crime and I had proof that I was not guilty I would most certainly produce the evidence. There are simple elements here that keep getting hashed over and over for no apparent reason. I won’t be happy until the outcome has been proven one way or another. Obama must realize this so with every passing day he continues to make himself look more and more guilty. He either has an ultimate plan of making everyone involved look bad or he is as guilty as sin and ….we the people will prevail.
    ____________________________________________________________________
    If you could just point out to us where in the Constitution that it states that both of your parents need to be US citizens for a person to be eligible to be President then your statement would make sense. OK, if not the Constitution then a law? Please enlighten us. What is mystifying is how you just make up requirements that are not in the Constitution. And by the way his mother was an American citizen.

    If I was accused of a crime then I agree with you, I would supply evidence of my innocence. However the President is not being charged with a crime and the Constitution has a remedy if you want to charge the President with something, that is Congress. Either way if I recall if you are accusing some of something you should have some evidence. So far there has been no legitimate evidence submitted. And by the way he has released the suffcient evidence to prove where he was born. If you choose not to believe it, then that is up to you and the less than 1% that actually believe that. The bottom line is that he was born in HI and is eligible to be President.

    ********************************************************************

    BL…if you had an inkling of an idea about the Constitution you would know that it doesn’t state per say in the Constitution that you must be born to 2 US citizens…..however….it does say you must be a “natural born” citizen…..this interpretation of the Constitution comes from various court cases and the Law of Nations by Vattel…however you already know all this as do all of us here yet you continue to ask for the proof in the Constitution!

    Your rhetoric is more proof than we all need that you are not a TRUE AMERICAN and that you believe the FRAUD in our White House is ABOVE THE LAW….wake up OBOT or move to another country that has a different type of government that isn’t of the people, by the people and for the people….sounds like Chavez is your man!!!!

  55. 10/3/2009Black Lion says:

    Jacqlyn Smith says:
    October 3, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    ********************************************************************

    BL…if you had an inkling of an idea about the Constitution you would know that it doesn’t state per say in the Constitution that you must be born to 2 US citizens…..however….it does say you must be a “natural born” citizen…..this interpretation of the Constitution comes from various court cases and the Law of Nations by Vattel…however you already know all this as do all of us here yet you continue to ask for the proof in the Constitution!

    Your rhetoric is more proof than we all need that you are not a TRUE AMERICAN and that you believe the FRAUD in our White House is ABOVE THE LAW….wake up OBOT or move to another country that has a different type of government that isn’t of the people, by the people and for the people….sounds like Chavez is your man!!!!
    ____________________________________________________________________
    I know about the Constitution, and I know that it does not even reference De Vattel. The Supreme Court has already stated in numerous cases that English Common Law was the basis of our Constitution. So continue with your De Vattel fantasy and we will see how far that gets with the SCOTUS.

    De Vattel never states that a natural born citizen had to have 2 citizen parents. Actual translations indicate that he may have meant that only the father need to be a citizen. Meaning you only needed one parent to be a US citizen, which the President has. Either way the English Common law states that you only need to be born in a country to be a natural born citizen. Since the Constitution only defines 2 types of citizens, naturalized and the ones born on the soil of a country.

    So I am not a true American. I guess I will have to change my Birth Certificate which shows that I was born in the United States. Seriously a true American believes in the law. Even when they don’t agree with the results. Most True Americans has accepted that Barack Obama in the 44th President of the United States.

  56. 10/4/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Black Lion says:
    October 3, 2009 at 10:47 pm

    Jacqlyn Smith says:
    October 3, 2009 at 6:48 pm

    ********************************************************************

    BL…if you had an inkling of an idea about the Constitution you would know that it doesn’t state per say in the Constitution that you must be born to 2 US citizens…..however….it does say you must be a “natural born” citizen…..this interpretation of the Constitution comes from various court cases and the Law of Nations by Vattel…however you already know all this as do all of us here yet you continue to ask for the proof in the Constitution!

    Your rhetoric is more proof than we all need that you are not a TRUE AMERICAN and that you believe the FRAUD in our White House is ABOVE THE LAW….wake up OBOT or move to another country that has a different type of government that isn’t of the people, by the people and for the people….sounds like Chavez is your man!!!!
    ____________________________________________________________________
    I know about the Constitution, and I know that it does not even reference De Vattel. The Supreme Court has already stated in numerous cases that English Common Law was the basis of our Constitution. So continue with your De Vattel fantasy and we will see how far that gets with the SCOTUS.

    De Vattel never states that a natural born citizen had to have 2 citizen parents. Actual translations indicate that he may have meant that only the father need to be a citizen. Meaning you only needed one parent to be a US citizen, which the President has. Either way the English Common law states that you only need to be born in a country to be a natural born citizen. Since the Constitution only defines 2 types of citizens, naturalized and the ones born on the soil of a country.

    So I am not a true American. I guess I will have to change my Birth Certificate which shows that I was born in the United States. Seriously a true American believes in the law. Even when they don’t agree with the results. Most True Americans has accepted that Barack Obama in the 44th President of the United States.

    *******************************************************************

    More bull$$it rhetoric and spin from you…I think I’ll take my chances with Kerchner and Apuzzo over your nonsense….you don’t know much about the Constitution because you keep trying to tell people that you don’t have to be “natural born” in order to be POTUS and further more you don’t know the meaning of “natural born”…study the case law and read what the founders intended once the grandfather clause was up….OBOTS still on the Kool-aid are the only ones who accept the FRAUD as POTUS….with every passing day there are fewer and fewer of you who accept him as POTUS…look at the decline of his poll #’s…I have many friends who are now leaving the DemoCRAP party because of his LIES and refusal to show his pertinent documents….I still say Chavez is your man!!!

  57. 10/4/2009Black Lion says:

    More bull$$it rhetoric and spin from you…I think I’ll take my chances with Kerchner and Apuzzo over your nonsense….you don’t know much about the Constitution because you keep trying to tell people that you don’t have to be “natural born” in order to be POTUS and further more you don’t know the meaning of “natural born”…study the case law and read what the founders intended once the grandfather clause was up….OBOTS still on the Kool-aid are the only ones who accept the FRAUD as POTUS….with every passing day there are fewer and fewer of you who accept him as POTUS…look at the decline of his poll #’s…I have many friends who are now leaving the DemoCRAP party because of his LIES and refusal to show his pertinent documents….I still say Chavez is your man!!!
    ____________________________________________________________________
    I hope you will take your chances with Apuzzo and Kerchner. Their case has no chance if winning. I have seen his evidence and it has throughly been debunked by real lawyers, not DWI lawyers pretending to know about Constitutional law. I never said that you don’t have to be natural born to be President. I said that the Constitution does not state what the definition of natural born is. The Supreme Court in the Wong Kim Ark case stated in the majority opinion that citizenship in this country comes from English Common law, not De Vattel. All of Apuzzo’s so called arugments were used over 100 years ago by George Collins, and he was the losing lawyer in the Wong Kim case. Your problem for whatever case you possibly may cite that may agrue Vattel there are more cases that say English Common law is where our citizenship laws come from. And De Vattel in his so called law of nations never stated that 2 parents needed to be citizens. He actually stated that the father, or one needed to be a citizen. So when Apuzzo fails, and he will, then we will see where the movement goes next.