Up to 2 Million Freedom Lovers in DC; White House: “Know nothing” of Protest; National Park Service: “It is a record” — Or Is It?

by Phil on 09/13/2009

Monday, September 14, 2009 Update: Via AmericanThinker.com:

The truth will out. Despite mainstream media attempts to characterize turnout as in the thousands, a spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, is quoted as saying “It is a record…. We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

Ah, but check out the comment by “Hellspawn“… I thank you, blogosphere, for helping keep everyone on the up-and-up for potential pwnage/mis/disinformation.

Yes, the opposition is going nuts and attempting to stick with a 5-digit number to express the size of the crowd. Funny how the opposition sticks to the size of a crowd versus taking on the expression of the protest.

Another blogger who was at the protest, ThePersistentConservative, claims 1.5 million showed up.

Congratulations, folks — the original tea party movement spawned what LibertarianRepublican is calling the “largest libertarian protest in history:”

It’s official. All major media are now reporting between 1.5 to 2 million marches on Washington D.C. for the Tea Party Protest. Sponsored by libertarian groups such as Americans for Prosperity, Freedom Works, and self-described “libertarian” Fox News Host Glenn Beck, today’s event is now the largest libertarian event in the history of the United States.

TheHopeForAmerica.com posted an excellent music video.

Michelle Malkin has estimated the size of the multitude at 2 million.

The following time-lapse video shows the multitude:

The Atlanta Examiner.com is also reporting on the 2 million figure. @LadyImpactOhio, one of today’s protestors, says the following:

Freedomworks announced (I heard it)  and I asked Capitol police estimates on crowd #s.  Both said 1.5 mil…

What really happened is this. There were really 2 waves of people. Yes probably 2 mil total but not all at the same time. Was the gathering early in the day at Freedom Plaza but not all stayed for the Capitol. Then another wave in early pm for Capitol Rally. I am confident 2 mil is too high. At least for all the same time.

Monday, September 14, 2009 Update: @LadyImpactOhio made the following prescient comment to opposition commenter, “Sue:”

Sue:

Longtime, no see.

I was one of the many of hundreds of thousands of Patriots who had the extraordinary privilege of being a part of history: 912 DC.

Yes, Sue; I was there. I was in the thick of things. I marched down Pennsylvania Ave. from Freedom Plaza and saw the words of the 1st Amendment etched on the side of a building. A pretty awesome site. I saw babes in arms, young children being towed by parents who were teaching them about what “liberty and freedom and the right to peacefully assemble” are all about. I saw elderly folks, who told me they had never dreamed they would ever do anything like this, but felt the future of America was at stake. People who told me they dug into savings accounts to make this trip. It was that important to them.

It’s too bad that folks such as yourself are so full of vitriol and sarcasm; and feel threatened by ordinary Americans such as myself and others who attended. And you know what? There was not one arrest. No one hauled off in handcuffs. No fights. We picked up after ourselves. We behaved and acted responsibly. Disappointed, aren’t you? The only person who DID NOT behave responsibly was the person who phoned in a bomb threat to FreedomWorks, one of the sponsors of the event.

Funny how some people feel threatened at the thought of a little liberty, right Sue?

Have a nice day.

The AmericanPower blog has a good link roundup.

The UK’s DailyMail is also reporting that “a million” [or was that two million, based on the Daily Mail's article title in the browser tab??] protested today. Besides being a good article, they have some fantastic pictures to boot (including the one I used for this posting):

Tens of thousands of people converged on Capitol Hill on Saturday to protest against government spending

US President Barack Obama sports a mustache famously worn by German dictator Adolf Hitler

Demonstrators hold up banners on Capitol Hill in Washington on Saturday

march

The heated demonstrations were organized by a Conservative group called the Tea Party Patriots

'Parasite-in-chief': The title given to the American President during the demonstrations on Saturday

RedState is running with the Daily Mail’s number of 2 million; they also sport the following excellent pic:

teaparty2.jpg

Whatever the official estimate turns out to be, the New York Times reports that DC authorities were taken “by surprise:”

But the magnitude of the rally took the authorities by surprise, with throngs of people streaming from the White House to Capitol Hill for more than three hours.

And, as FoxNews reports, the Dems had been trying to make political hay over the expectations of the turnout today.

C-SPAN has a 2 1/2 hour video clip of the protest.

Here’s an excellent video to really get the juices flowing:

The AmericanPower blog has a couple of excellent updates. In their first, they present an original crowd estimate of 1.2 million:

The New York Times reports on today’s 9-12 events in Washington, with the title, “Thousands Rally in Capital to Protest Big Government.” But check Doug Powers, “9/12 March on Washington Live Video Link. As he notes at the post, “Unconfirmed reports are that the DC Police are estimating the crowd at 1.2 million and growing.” It turns out, naturally, that crowd size is a political football. See, “Managing Expectations: Crowd Size for D.C. Rally Sparks Fight.”

No matter. Check Michelle Malkin’s post here, “Celebrating the 9/12 Rallies” (with live-streaming video). Plus, the Wall Street Journal, “Conservatives Gather in Capital.” (Via Memeorandum.)

Here’s an excellent “background” video from the above post:


Watch Taxpayer March on Washington DC, 9-12-2009 in Activism & Non-Profit |  View More Free Videos Online at Veoh.com

Secondly:

Pamela Geller has some great coverage of events, “A Failed Presidency …. And Its Only Six Months, Hundreds of Thousands On the Mall.” Pics at Instapundit! And Michelle Malkin, “Update: Turnout Estimated at 2 Million.”

[Pic from Ms. Geller:]

Tea party dc

Check also Nice Deb. And Vodkapundit has lots of pictures, with updates throughout the day (via Memeorandum). And at Newsbusters, “WaPo Presents 9-12 Event as GOP Danger, Full of ‘Right-Wing Nutballs’ and ‘Freaks’.”

The White House is trying to blow off the event. But as Jennifer Rubin notes:

The long-term consequences of this and the preceding populist gatherings are hard to predict. We may see a more libertarian Republican party. A huge turnout for 2010 may result. New, real outsiders may enter politics. And, of course, these protests may scare the dickens out of lawmakers. But while everyone is decrying the collapse of civility and the resulting harm to the country, it is worth noting that we are witnessing a grassroots outpouring of support for limited government, the rule of law, fiscal sobriety, and generational responsibility. That must be heartening to conservatives, but more than that, it is a tribute to the vitality of our democracy and the energy of its citizenry. And that is a very good thing indeed.

The above AmericanPower posting references a source that goes back to The Wall Street Journal which reported that the White House “professed to know nothing” about the event:

White House officials on Friday professed to know nothing of the planned demonstrations. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs queried reporters about the planners and their issues. “I don’t know who the group is,” he said with a shrug.

As Breitbart reports on how Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) was a speaker at the party:

…MSNBC opines in a news article about how some GOP “strategists” and “observers” are worried over being associated with “extreme protestors:”

But top Republican strategists and many party observers also worry about the impact that the most extreme protesters might have on the party’s image, including those who carry swastika signs or obsess over the veracity of Obama’s Hawaiian birth.

Mark McKinnon, a former adviser to Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) and other Republicans, said there is an “opportunity for Republicans” to tap into legitimate fears about an overreaching federal government. But he said that “right-wing nutballs are aligning themselves with these movements” and are dominating media coverage.

“It’s bad for Republicans because in the absence of any real leadership, the freaks fill the void and define the party,” McKinnon said. [emphasis mine]

Cry me a river.

As with the original tea parties, CNN once again found themselves in the midst of #iamthemob with the inability to report on the news. HotAir.com’s take on the CNN kerfluffle included the following interesting commentary:

Revenge for the now legendary Susan Roesgen incident via TV Newser. Watch to the end or else you’ll miss the crowd reaction when she asks about Joe Wilson.

Update: To the great surprise of exactly no one, Wilson has now outraised opponent Rob Miller since Wednesday night’s ourburst.

Rounding out my posting, here are some more pictures from this Windows Live site:

Sunday, September 13, 2009 Update: More pics — from Strata-Sphere.com:

From StealthFusion.com:

And, in conclusion, AmericanThinker.com posted an article entitled, “The spark that has triggered rebellion” by Ellen Sauerbrey, the former Minority Leader in the Maryland Houe of Delegates.

Sunday, September 13, 2009 Update: AmericanThinker.com posted another article on the protest entitled, “9/12 was a transformative event.”

Stephanie Jasky, founder of FedUpUSA.org, wrote the following missive concerning the day’s activities:

912 Protest Washington DC FINAL

Regardless of the specific number of individuals who showed up, it appears that the point was made.

Washington, you’re on notice.

-Phil

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There are 91 comments in this article:

  1. 09/12/2009Christinewjc says:

    Your blog wins the prize for the BEST overall coverage of the Washington D.C. TEA Party Protest! Loved the “We Won’t Get Fooled Again Video.” Going back now to read and view the rest of this post.

    Thanks and God Bless the United States of America! Land of the Free and Home of the Brave!!!

  2. 09/12/2009NewEnglandPatriot says:

    Fantastic job, Phil. Great photos!

  3. 09/12/2009JeffM says:

    Unbelievable! I haven’t seen a crowd like this in DC since Earth Day 1990. And we all know what happened after that march.

  4. 09/13/2009MGB says:

    Phil, this is so great. Thank you for finding and posting these videos. My heart swells with pride when I see these ordinary, but brave, even heroic, Americans fighting for their Republic and their Constitution.

    The “powers that be” ought NEVER underestimate the mighty spirit of the American people.

  5. 09/13/2009texaspatriot says:

    Whats new…the white house does not know much about anything going on. And if they did they would lie about it anyway because that is what this administration does so well about most everything LIE (Oh yes I did call obama a LIAR). Its all over the net and has been broadcast world wide by now pretty hard to not know what went on in DC today….Great patriots honestly showing love for their country is very hard to deny..DC was surprised today, they were not prepared for the Calvary to arrive in peace and showed their strength 1,500,000 people or more strong ! GO GREAT PATRIOTS !!

  6. 09/13/2009Texas Lady says:

    Note to Mark McKinnon*

    “Right wing nutballs”& “freaks”?

    And the difference between you and Nancy Pelosi would be? She seems to believe they are “astroturf” and “swastika carrying tea baggers”.

    Maybe you need to listen to more conversation outside the beltway. Well adjusted and very sane people understand when the president spends over 2 million dollars in legal fees to keep all of his past records from being released something is wrong.

    Many of us “nutballs” & “freaks” voted for John McCain. We held our noses to do so, because we felt we had no real choice. But the time has passed for us to ever settle for “Progressive Light” again. Our next candidate must be a “true conservative”, willing to bring us back to our founding principles. Not just a bunch of bi-partisanship slick moves to join the leftys for the sake of goodwill.

    We are sick of that crap. Maybe a crash course of one on one time spent with some of the people who make this country work is just what you people need. Get a clue!

  7. 09/13/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    This is amazing….my only regret is that I couldn’t be there as well!!!! Way to go PATRIOTS!!!!

  8. 09/13/2009P. Barnett says:

    well the Obama minions on CNN are already saying that everyone that went to D.C. is a racist…. No rebuttals from them – just them saying we are all racists.. No wonder their ratings suck…

    Obama will probably have to give them a bail out soon to keep them in business.

  9. 09/13/2009David - Patriot says:

    Hooray for the Patriotic Citizens of America and their march on WDC!

    We will Never Allow any Radical Islamic Tyrannt or his Corrupt administration to Surpress or Subdue us and what they saw today isonly a mere smattering of the Total Patriotic Citizens of this Great Nation.

    You don’t P R O V O K E American Patriots without getting your ASS Kicked Real GOOD!!!!! In fact what’s going to happen is that the Radical Islamist/Marxist along with his entire Corrupt Administration is going to get their Asses Nailed to the wall perminently so future generations will know what happens to Traitors who try and destroy our Great Nation!

    You mess with us and you feel our Wrath 10 fold, make no mistake about it!!

  10. 09/13/2009Theodosa says:

    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/12/celebrating-the-912-rallies/

    That amount is not quite correct, Michelle corrected her blog maybe you should do the same in the spirit of full transparecy.

  11. 09/13/2009David says:

    When the left shows up for protesting, they have small crowds with megaphones. They’re a small group, but awfully loud and in your face.

    When the right shows up – even though they typically aren’t public protestors – they seem to have very large crowds and don’t need the added loud-speakers. The message is quite clear basically on the crowd size alone.

    Who ever said that the right could not organize? I think that myth has been laid to rest. Now, we just need to organize at the right places at the right time – like at voting booths on Election Day.

  12. 09/13/2009Poppet says:

    This was absolutely AMAZING”! Our area ran out of Buses going to D.C.,
    otherwise there would have been many more Patriot’s attending.

    Million’s more “protested” across Our Country in their
    own Hometown’s…

    I did NOT see any ACORN Orange prison shirt’s at the event…

  13. 09/13/2009Pete says:

    Phil,
    Just got back from work, again. Thanks for the updates.
    I’m thinking that 2 million is quite a few. I’m also thinking that next time it will be even more. I’m certain that everyone in the White House didn’t notice. Do they ever tell the truth there?

    Pete

  14. 09/13/2009Sue says:

    I believe you are spreading misinformation. The DC law enforcement I spoke with stated there was 50,000 to 60,000 in attendance.

    Not factual regarding mainstream media.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055
    ABC News Was Misquoted on Crowd Size

    “At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as “tens of thousands.”

    Brendan Steinhauser, spokesman for FreedomWorks, said he did not know why Kibbe cited ABC News as a source.

    As a result of Kibbe’s erroneous attribution, several bloggers and commenters repeated the misinformation.”

    But, hey it won’t be the first time “patriots” are caught spreading misinformation.

  15. 09/13/2009Sue says:

    http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0909/Wilson_campaign_Fundraising_breaks_1_million_passes_Miller.html
    Source: Wilson breaks $1 million
    “CORRECTION: He may still trail Democrat Rob Miller, who broke $1 million yesterday.”

  16. 09/13/2009Aristotle the Hun says:

    America! America! God shed his grace on thee!

  17. 09/13/2009Sue says:

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909120013
    Shuster: “Freedomworks says their dc demonstration attracted 30,000 people. Park police official says that is being ‘generous.’ “

  18. 09/13/2009Protest In Washington – Biggest Ever – 2 MILLION – RightSideofLife, Examiner, Michelle Malkin – Dr. Orly Taitz Update – Pelosi Had Doubts of Obama’s Eligibility? – Injust Justice Department – Larry Sinclair says:

    [...] The RightSideofLife has a good article describing this historic event with many photos: Up to 2 Million Freedom Lovers in DC; White House: “Know nothing” of Protest [...]

  19. 09/13/2009Protest In Washington – Biggest Ever – 2 MILLION – RightSideofLife, Examiner, Michelle Malkin – Dr. Orly Taitz Update – Pelosi Had Doubts of Obama’s Eligibility? – Unjust Justice Department – Larry Sinclair says:

    [...] The RightSideofLife has a good article describing this historic event with many photos: Up to 2 Million Freedom Lovers in DC; White House: “Know nothing” of Protest [...]

  20. 09/13/2009nonotes says:

    I read “ten of thousands” on FOX, ABC and NPR News programs. My mother is in DC visiting a family member and she texted me on Saturday afternoon to say that she visited the Smithsonian Postal Museum, took a taxi to eat burgers at Five Guys and then went to see a movie with no traveling problems. Two million folks would have shut the city down.

    The protest had a vibrant crowd but I was honestly expecting more people to show up. Maybe the beginning of college football season caused some conflicts.

  21. 09/13/2009Air Force Brat says:

    Heart-stopping and heart-warming at the same time! The sheer number of people there takes my breath away. And it thrills me to the soul that so many refused to listen to naysayers spouting “it’s no use”, “we can’t win”, and “there’s nothing we can do”.

    Maybe we’re seeing another “Greatest Generation”, encompassing all age groups.

  22. 09/13/2009Oracle says:

    Let’s hope Glenn Beck finds 56 re-founders. The cure of the disease should start from immediate investigation of all 360+ offices and affiliates of ACORN, opening their books, and exposing all politicians and lawyers involved in their illegal and subversive activities. Today, we are not even sure that the Census bureau severed their contacts with all of them.

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2337984/posts

  23. 09/13/2009glsmarlton says:

    Phil,

    Thank you!

  24. 09/13/2009Yephora says:

    Here is an original poster idea for the next rally:

    “Obama: puts the ‘mess’ in Messiah”

    Like it? It’s yours :)

  25. 09/13/2009Oracle says:

    Apparently, ACORN has already been investigated by the Congress, but we have not been informed:

    http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/09/urgent-congress-has-already.html

    And the following up effort by Senator Conyer to investigate ACORN was quashed by the power that be… We the People need to demand that this investigation be undertaken as soon as possible. As Glenn Beck suggested, no more new legislation until they sanitize the corruption in Washington D.C.!

  26. 09/13/2009PA Patriot says:

    The American people are tired of taxation without representation. We have enough Tyranny from government at all levels. Obama and the dem’s arrogance and disdain of WE the people is the straw that broke the camel’s back. It is noteworthy to state that like the last oppressor of this nation of OURS, King George, Obama and his crowknees ( or is it crows feet Oh that is Plastic Pelosi)
    are ignoring us and what WE the People want . The last time we all know how that ended….and it is far too late in time not to call an ace an ace, a spade a spade and a liar a liar…looks it is five minutes to midnight. And oh Jim Spellman things probably would not be so dark if the socialists in DC had not turned the lights out! It is time to relight the torch of liberty!

  27. 09/13/2009PA Patriot says:

    Hey lets not forget thet October 1st is National NOBAMA Day! Get your posters up and wear your T shirts and lets try as hard as we can to get the message out to everyone! God Bless America

  28. 09/13/2009SueK says:

    Sue,

    Who the hell cares how big the crowd was…it was BIG, but you can’t seem to wrap your Obot brain around that.

    Why do you bother to post here?

  29. 09/13/2009Anonymous says:

    Sue….No one really cares about your BS numbers……Why are you even concerning yourself with this….your intent is to protect the criminals….that has been obvious from the beginning here….why don’t you clean up the LIES on your side of the aisle instead of trying to discredit the DC authorities who said over 1.5 million they guessed….they didn’t go around counting like YOU did!!!! Biggest crowd in over 20 some years!!!!

  30. 09/13/2009Jacqlyn Smith says:

    Sue says:
    September 13, 2009 at 6:08 am

    http://mediamatters.org/blog/200909120013
    Shuster: “Freedomworks says their dc demonstration attracted 30,000 people. Park police official says that is being ‘generous.
    **********************************************************************

    Like we are going to believe your sources…..you OBOTS can’t ever tell the truth….I guess you take after your FRAUD Communist leader!!! Haven’t your heard….HE IS A LIAR…….Go spin your numbers somewhere else!!

  31. 09/13/2009Sue says:

    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/12/celebrating-the-912-rallies/
    Late update: The misattribution to ABC News came from Freedomworks:

    “Conservative activists, who organized a march on the U.S. Capitol today in protest of the Obama administration’s health care agenda and government spending, erroneously attributed reports on the size of the crowds to ABC News.

    Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, the group that organized the event, said on stage at the rally that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance.

    At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as “tens of thousands.”

    Brendan Steinhauser, spokesman for FreedomWorks, said he did not know why Kibbe cited ABC News as a source.

    As a result of Kibbe’s erroneous attribution, several bloggers and commenters repeated the misinformation.
    Thanks to ABC News for clearing this up.”

  32. 09/13/2009Texas Voter says:

    Rep. Joe Wilson, R-SC, recently took in $1 million in 48 hrs. upon calling the POTUS a liar during a joint session of Congress. Maybe, having seen how bread gets buttered these days, he is in a mood to entertain an audience to discuss Constitutional eligibility?

    Perhaps a group of resident voters from Rep. Wilson’s Congressional District in SC could arrange an appointment to discuss Art. II Sect. 1, Vattel, Pelosi’s duelling DNC certifications, et al?

    Strike while the iron is hot!

  33. 09/13/2009Phil says:

    Sue,

    http://michellemalkin.com/2009/09/12/celebrating-the-912-rallies/
    Late update: The misattribution to ABC News came from Freedomworks:

    “Conservative activists, who organized a march on the U.S. Capitol today in protest of the Obama administration’s health care agenda and government spending, erroneously attributed reports on the size of the crowds to ABC News.

    Matt Kibbe, president of FreedomWorks, the group that organized the event, said on stage at the rally that ABC News was reporting that 1 million to 1.5 million people were in attendance.

    At no time did ABC News, or its affiliates, report a number anywhere near as large. ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as “tens of thousands.”

    Brendan Steinhauser, spokesman for FreedomWorks, said he did not know why Kibbe cited ABC News as a source.

    As a result of Kibbe’s erroneous attribution, several bloggers and commenters repeated the misinformation.
    Thanks to ABC News for clearing this up.”

    In reality, Ms. Malkin had the referenced update in her posting at the time I posted mine.

    Furthermore, as @LadyImpactOhio can attest (as I posted and as she actually asked authorities), there were at least a million individuals during certain points of the protest, and I think that’s the part that everyone’s missing. If you actually go to the Agenda page at 912dc.org, you will see that there were at least two main events that occurred yesterday.

    The point is that those in the opposition to these protests apparently wish to downplay the numbers as much as possible, when, in fact, any pictorial or video testimony of the event clearly shows that a figure such as in the mere 5 figures being a clear understatement of the day. Not only this, but, as of this comment, I don’t think any official numbers have been released.

    And, even so, so what? There were a lot of people that showed up, clearly and obviously at least as many that would show up for any left-wing gathering of protesters.

    Oh, wait — conservatives, independents and the like aren’t supposed to protest in this manner, now, are we?

    -Phil

  34. 09/13/2009Texas Voter says:

    Phil said:
    Oh, wait — conservatives, independents and the like aren’t supposed to protest in this manner, now, are we?

    I say:
    Liberals have declared Conservatives to be radicals.
    They should be careful what they wish for …

  35. 09/13/2009GeorgetownJD says:

    I thought all the Confederate flags and the Obama-as-Hitler signs were a nice touch.

  36. 09/13/2009Observer says:

    As many patriots as were in Wash., there were tons more who were not there but supporting them and agreeing with them.

    As the “mess – iah” flew overhead in his rented helicopter I wonder if his left arm jerked even more than it did when he heard himself called “liar” – and realized that some of the people actually witnessed to the fact that this emperor has no clothes either!

  37. 09/13/2009Roderick says:

    If the imposters white house knew nothing of this protest the imposter needs to hire a new secret service. Sorry imposter you were well informed of the protest, you are from kenya and u hate america.

  38. 09/13/2009Birther Girl in SC says:

    I just returned from the 9-12 Rally in DC! I rode on one of four chartered buses with about 200 Patriots from Columbia, South Carolina! Coming up out of the subway and joining the throng streaming up Pennsylvania Avenue was an unbelievably humbling experience. And every bit as beautiful as your posted images are! Walking shoulder to shoulder with my countrymen and adding my voice to the cheers was an honor.

    Barbara Langdon
    Aiken, South Carolina

  39. 09/13/2009Allan says:

    For once in many years I can say I’m proud to be an American! My grandfather fought in the first world war my father fought in the second world war and both my brother and I fought in the Vietnam war or should I say conflict. I’ve watched this country waste away and witnessed our Constitution cut to ribbons by the last bunch of presidents since JFK. I’ve prayed that America would wake up and answer the call for change and I’m glad that Obama used that slogan and that it has backfired on him. Now Americans are demanding change and that change is to rid itself of the very people that should be our voice in Congress. Please be aware that AARP has run commericals backing Obama’s health reform claiming it’s the greatest thing since Mom’a apple pie and I fully consider AARP to be a bunch of traitors to every senior citizen that is a member of same. Congress take notice because you’re next and citizens will vote you all out and strip you of all the millions you’ve made by lining your pockets with lobbyist money. Once this health care reform is fully defeated lets march against illeal aliens and kick them out of this country so we don’t have to pay for them to live here! It’s odd to me that during the million man march to Washington years back there were people of all colors. Why do all the photos and videos of this event show not a sea of colors?

  40. 09/13/2009St. Lucie says:

    Heres my personal favorite of the 912 March on DC Tea Party Rally:

    http://moderateinthemiddle.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/912aerial.jpg?w=490&h=659

    I would be interested in seeing a photo of the National Mall after this amazing turnout. Bet the Mall did not look like this: (the following is after Obama’s Inauguration

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3370/3214523581_0d5be3e9b2_o.jpg

  41. 09/13/2009Ken in Tenn says:

    Do you realize one of your Google ads is for a Pro Obama site that attempts to stop the “smear” of people exposing his birth location?
    http://www.FightTheSmears.com

  42. 09/13/2009MGB says:

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.blackpast.org/files/blackpast_images/obama_inauguration.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.blackpast.org/%3Fq%3D2009-barack-obama-inaugural-address&usg=__D0Ne0hr10JEVQ030NqLAOXBYEVo=&h=276&w=460&sz=72&hl=en&start=115&um=1&tbnid=pqLG2EZZsUCWYM:&tbnh=77&tbnw=128&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dobama%2Binauguration%26ndsp%3D20%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D100%26um%3D1

    At the above link, you will see the crowd for Obama’s inauguration. Now, refer to the LA Times for the estimate for that crowd:

    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan/21/nation/na-inaug-crowds21

    1.2 million. So, compare that photo to the photos of the 9/12 March on Washington. What say you? If the 9/12 march is only 70,000, then only 70,000 were at Obama’s inauguration.

    Why don’t ya just stop tellin’ lies?

  43. 09/13/2009Phil says:

    Ken in Tenn,

    Do you realize one of your Google ads is for a Pro Obama site that attempts to stop the “smear” of people exposing his birth location?
    http://www.FightTheSmears.com

    Another reader has similarly contacted me about that. Regarding Google AdSense, I don’t have control over the ads that show up on my site. They are, theoretically, determined by the verbiage of my postings.

    -Phil

  44. 09/13/2009Carol Greenberg says:

    Sue:

    Longtime, no see.

    I was one of the many of hundreds of thousands of Patriots who had the extraordinary privilege of being a part of history: 912 DC.

    Yes, Sue; I was there. I was in the thick of things. I marched down Pennsylvania Ave. from Freedom Plaza and saw the words of the 1st Amendment etched on the side of a building. A pretty awesome site. I saw babes in arms, young children being towed by parents who were teaching them about what “liberty and freedom and the right to peacefully assemble” are all about. I saw elderly folks, who told me they had never dreamed they would ever do anything like this, but felt the future of America was at stake. People who told me they dug into savings accounts to make this trip. It was that important to them.

    It’s too bad that folks such as yourself are so full of vitriol and sarcasm; and feel threatened by ordinary Americans such as myself and others who attended. And you know what? There was not one arrest. No one hauled off in handcuffs. No fights. We picked up after ourselves. We behaved and acted responsibly. Disappointed, aren’t you? The only person who DID NOT behave responsibly was the person who phoned in a bomb threat to FreedomWorks, one of the sponsors of the event.

    Funny how some people feel threatened at the thought of a little liberty, right Sue?

    Have a nice day.

  45. 09/13/2009Hellspawn says:

    Multiple sources claim “largest gathering ever”, except they lie.
    Here’s the ultimate source.

    Oh, this is SOOOOO rich!

    Repugnuts claim http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/09/912_demonstration_a_record_dc.html that 9/12 is a record turnout.
    To quote “..The truth will out. Despite mainstream media attempts to characterize turnout as in the thousands, a spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, is quoted as saying “It is a record…. We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

    Democrats and their media acolytes may wish this weren’t so, and they may even employ the Ostrich Strategy, burying their collective heads in the sand, pretending that a major important political movement isn’t happening. But they only hasten their own demise in doing so….”

    BUT the actual link they quote is to the BostonGlobe dated 2009-1-12 the OBAMA INAUGURATION!

    BWHAHAHAAA! These people can’t even be smart when they LIE!!
    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2009/01/22/inaugural_crowd_size_reportedly_dc_record/

    Looks like the Kool-aide is selling well on Faux!!

  46. 09/13/2009sus says:

    Phil, There were not a million people at the protest. It’s already been debunked. However, there were about 40,000 more than I thought would be there. So, congratulations on that.

    What is freedomworks supposed to say? Glenn Beck announces this thing back in March. Fox News, as well as Freedomworks, Grassfire/ResistNet, and others, have continually advertised the event. Fox News even followed the “Tea Party Express”.

    Now you want them to say they didn’t get the turnout they expected?

    Regarding your “cry me a river” response to McKinnon’s concern about the Republican Party, I wouldn’t have expected anything different. I think McKinnon is right though.

  47. 09/13/2009Sue says:

    “And, even so, so what? There were a lot of people that showed up, clearly and obviously at least as many that would show up for any left-wing gathering of protesters.

    Oh, wait — conservatives, independents and the like aren’t supposed to protest in this manner, now, are we?”

    Phil,

    I have no idea how many people would show up for a left-wing gathering protest. Of course you can protest. Anybody can protest anything they please. I just don’t understand why people think they need to inflate the numbers but hey, whatever floats your boat.

  48. 09/13/2009St. Lucie says:

    Found an after 912 rally photo on Gateway Pundit.

    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/09/clean-conservatives-filthy-liberals.html

  49. 09/13/2009Sue says:

    “instead of trying to discredit the DC authorities”

    What DC authorities? I called the DC Capitol Police and they stated that they do not keep up with any numbers of people who attend these type of events anymore. Same for DC Park Police.

  50. 09/14/2009eric says:

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but Foxnews.com is reporting “tens of thousands” showed up and not 2 million.

    The early were reports were based on false reports from the likes of Michelle Malkin.

    Here is ABC’s statement on the matter and an apology from Freedomworks.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055

    Not surprised, since you guys lie first and lie hard. Will you change your headline or issue a correction? Probably not.

  51. 09/14/2009Phil says:

    sus,

    Phil, There were not a million people at the protest. It’s already been debunked. However, there were about 40,000 more than I thought would be there. So, congratulations on that.

    What is freedomworks supposed to say? Glenn Beck announces this thing back in March. Fox News, as well as Freedomworks, Grassfire/ResistNet, and others, have continually advertised the event. Fox News even followed the “Tea Party Express”.

    Now you want them to say they didn’t get the turnout they expected?

    Regarding your “cry me a river” response to McKinnon’s concern about the Republican Party, I wouldn’t have expected anything different. I think McKinnon is right though.

    Sorry. Eyewitness accounts already say that figures in excess of 1 million people throughout the entire day was not an exaggeration.

    -Phil

  52. 09/14/2009Phil says:

    Sue,

    I have no idea how many people would show up for a left-wing gathering protest. Of course you can protest. Anybody can protest anything they please. I just don’t understand why people think they need to inflate the numbers but hey, whatever floats your boat.

    There is no inflation of numbers when several eyewitness accounts put the number somewhere between 1 – 2 million.

    -Phil

  53. 09/14/2009Phil says:

    eric,

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but Foxnews.com is reporting “tens of thousands” showed up and not 2 million.

    The early were reports were based on false reports from the likes of Michelle Malkin.

    Here is ABC’s statement on the matter and an apology from Freedomworks.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/protest-crowd-size-estimate-falsely-attributed-abc-news/story?id=8558055

    Not surprised, since you guys lie first and lie hard. Will you change your headline or issue a correction? Probably not.

    Characterize reporting such as mine however you wish; it doesn’t bother me.

    Regardless, several eyewitness accounts put the figure for the entire day somewhere between 1 – 2 million.

    -Phil

  54. 09/14/2009MGB says:

    Again, all you have to do is to compare the photos from Obama’s inauguration to the photos of the 9/12 March on Washington. Nobody should inflate the numbers. Neither should an intellectually honest person DEFLATE the numbers. IfF Obama’s crowd was 1 to 2 million, then the 9/12 crowd was 1 to 2 million. You cannot see it two different ways. Either only 70,000 were at Obama’s inauguration, or 1 to 2 million were at the 9/12 march.

  55. 09/14/2009Paulus says:

    Bummer!

    Fox News (National) reports “Tens of Thousands”:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/12/tea-party-express-arrives-march-washington-protest-government-spending/

    Double bummer!

    Fox News (Local, DC) reports “Thousands – Possibly Tens of Thousands”:

    http://www.myfoxdc.com/dpp/news/dc/091209_Thousands_Rally_Against_Govt_Expansion

    [From Phil: I'm not so sure why these reports are "bumming" to you. Nobody's going to make any absolute claims on crowd sizes until official estimates are retained.]

  56. 09/14/2009Sharon 2 says:

    I don’t know how one could look at the photo above the USA Today image and believe that only 40,000 people were present throughout the day.

  57. 09/14/2009Naught says:

    I was there and while I can’t tell the difference between hundreds of thousands and a million or more, from the ground, I can certainly tell the difference between tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands.

    Easily, hundreds of thousands were there.

    I am so proud to have been one of them.

    Thanks Phil, for everything you do.

    Naught

  58. 09/14/2009siseduermapierda says:

    From US Today interview with FreedomWorks on Friday. Spokesman told US Today 30,000 people were signed up at the site as of Friday, and 450 buses scheduled.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-11-tax-rally_N.htm

    FreedomWorks was expecting 30,000. They couldn’t have ever really believed that 1 million or even 100,000 showed. Excessive exuberance on the part of participants. FoxNews never reported anything but “tens of thousands”.

    30,000 is a decent turn-out for a rally in DC.

  59. 09/14/2009Phil says:

    siseduermapierda,

    From US Today interview with FreedomWorks on Friday. Spokesman told US Today 30,000 people were signed up at the site as of Friday, and 450 buses scheduled.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-11-tax-rally_N.htm

    FreedomWorks was expecting 30,000. They couldn’t have ever really believed that 1 million or even 100,000 showed. Excessive exuberance on the part of participants. FoxNews never reported anything but “tens of thousands”.

    30,000 is a decent turn-out for a rally in DC.

    While I realize that a discussion must be had over the turnout numbers because the protest regarding individual freedoms and liberty is a strange one for statists to seriously consider, I think a mere glance at the time-lapse video near the top of this posting shows that there were clearly more than 30,000. Based on what folks have been saying and pictures around the Internet, one could easily add another zero to that figure and be comfortably low on the exact figure.

    -Phil

  60. 09/14/2009siseduermapierda says:

    Phil says:
    September 14, 2009 at 3:09 pm
    -Video-

    The time lapse video was edited and loops 3 times as the group marches up Pennsylvania Ave toward the Capitol. Advance it manually second by second and you will see it. It’s when the group leaves the park to march to the Capitol. Look several blocks up Pennsylvania as people fill the street. First you see people way up Pennsylvania Avenue, and then the blocks closest to the Capitol are empty again. You can see it in the cloud movement. There’s a jump when it loops.

    People took time out of their life to go to DC. When someone falsifies what actually happened, it takes away from their effort.

  61. 09/14/2009Up to 1.2 Million Strong Attend Rally at Capital in Massive New Movement to Display Their Outrage With Corruption, Debt, Socialism, and Elitism in Washington D.C. « Gospel of Jesus Christ, The Gift of Eternal Life says:

    [...] with the information available from various sources, it is patently obvious that it looks as if there were clearly over 1 million people attending the Washington D.C. rally alone. You can superimpose the crowd size with still photos taken and compare them to the chart I have [...]

  62. 09/14/2009Black Lion says:

    The sections below were taken from the article above. Over the weekend it seemed like Rep. Joe Wilson was a popular person for the people that were at the rally. A kind of hero because he happend to interrupt the President’s speach by shouting “you lie”.

    “Revenge for the now legendary Susan Roesgen incident via TV Newser. Watch to the end or else you’ll miss the crowd reaction when she asks about Joe Wilson.

    Update: To the great surprise of exactly no one, Wilson has now outraised opponent Rob Miller since Wednesday night’s ourburst.”

    It seems like Mr. Wilson has an interesting past. It seems like he is or was a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, which is a pro Confederacy group. He was also one of the so called “gang of seven” that went against their party and voted against removing the Confederate flag from the State house.

    http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/obama-heckler-joe-wilson-member-neo

    “Joe also has been a member of the Columbia World Affairs Council, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Sinclair Lodge 154, Jamil Temple, Woodmen of the World, Sons of Confederate Veterans, ….”

    “The flag came down that year after Republicans in both houses went for a compromise that would put it on Statehouse grounds at the Confederate Soldier’s monument. The “Magnificent Seven” of Senators who voted to keep the flag up included current Congressman Joe Wilson (who I served with in the 218th Infantry Brigade of the National Guard.) The campaign against people like Bauer and the other people who had changed their position on the flag in the legislature was called No Votes for Turncoats.”

    He has also be know to say the following…

    “Jackie Calmes points to the biography of Mr. Wilson in CQ’s “Politics in America,” which includes this line: “Wilson’s sharp and careless remarks sometimes land him in hot water.” One example listed was Mr. Wilson’s constant criticisms of Senator John Kerry during the Democrat’s presidential campaign, and even includes a reference to Mr. Wilson’s characterization of the news that Strom Thurmond had fathered a daughter with a black woman. Even after the longtime Republican senator’s family acknowledged the paternity, Mr. Wilson called the notion a “smear on the image” of Mr. Thurmond.”

    http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/live-blogging-the-presidents-speech/#t21h32m

    The original comment was made because Rep. Wilson believed that the healthcare bill would provide coverage for illegal immigrants. According to politifact it disagrees….

    “We read all 1,000-plus pages of the health care bill and were struck by the fact that it is largely silent on health care for illegal immigrants. Keep in mind that experts estimated there were 6.8 million uninsured illegal immigrants in the United States in 2007, out of a total of 11.9 million illegal immigrants. Right now, there are laws on the books that require hospitals to treat severely ill people who arrive at the hospital, regardless of immigration status, and we didn’t see anything that would change those laws, either. Most illegal immigrants are also now excluded from Medicaid, the government-run health care for the poor. We didn’t see anything that would change that.”

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/joe-wilson/joe-wilson-south-carolina-said-obama-lied-he-didnt/

    Now some would say that this is “opposition research”. This is not. Just like some would like “full disclosure” for everything regarding President Barack Obama, the same criteria is appropriate for those in the public eye that are in opposition, like Rep. Wilson. Once we have all the information, then we can make an informed decision or form an informed opinion of an individual.

  63. 09/14/2009Anonymous says:

    JeffM says:
    September 12, 2009 at 11:50 pm
    Unbelievable! I haven’t seen a crowd like this in DC since Earth Day 1990. And we all know what happened after that march.

    I don’t know what happened on Earth Day 1990. Fill me in because I didn’t find anything when I googled it.

  64. 09/14/2009Anonymous says:

    [This poster stated the following:]

    if you haven’t seen the animated gif at the bottom of this page, you might want to take a look:

    http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2009/09/912-attendance-metrics-1-million-plus.html

  65. 09/14/2009Benaiah says:

    Phil,

    You forgot to post the following photos from the Progressives who were protesting the Tea Party:

    http://www.mythinglinks.org/HitlerPlatform~newURL~c~R50~TL.JPG

    http://www.orange-papers.org/orange-HJ_Nuremberg.jpg

    Benaiah

  66. 09/14/2009Benaiah says:

    I see the UK has a rich Islamic heritage like the US… Do you think Abdulla Ahmed Ali is a “natural born citizen” of the UK?

    Four UK Muslims jailed for terror plot
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251804571847&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    Obama addresses Muslims on Ramadan
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418668609&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    “These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.”

  67. 09/14/2009Benaiah says:

    New York homes raided in terrorism probe
    http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN1451768020090914

    “A man who identified himself as Amanullah Akbar, a 30-year-old taxi driver, said the FBI raided the apartment he shares with four other Afghan men…”

    Obama declares US not at war with Islam
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97CVOMG0&show_article=1

    Barack Hussein Obama: “We seek broad engagement based upon mutual interests and mutual respect. …We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better, including my own country.”

  68. 09/14/2009Sue says:

    Not even close. BTW, would you mind posting a contact number for the spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, so this information can be verified.

  69. 09/14/2009Phil says:

    siseduermapierda,

    People took time out of their life to go to DC. When someone falsifies what actually happened, it takes away from their effort.

    When you can demonstrate that anyone is falsifying anything about the DC protest, then I might entertain your assertion.

    On the contrary, I have said and will continue to say that “up to 2 million” individuals showed up throughout the day on Saturday to protest, and I have every reason to believe that the figure is absolutely well north of 50,000 individuals.

    So, until someone is willing to go on the record and say in no uncertain terms that they know what the actual number was and show why they can say that, my posting stays as it is.

    -Phil

  70. 09/14/2009Sharon 2 says:

    Excerpt from A Soldier’s Perspective blog: (CJ Grisham)

    Now, you may ask why am I expending all this energy on numbers? It’s easy. There is a story about which NOT ONE media report has written. And it’s a first hand account that was sent to me yesterday.

    One of my roommates is a Volunteer for the event. She was put on Pennsylvania Ave and 13 St. At 10am she got calls from the Volunteers on the lawn that the police had closed the gates and weren’t letting anyone else in. She relayed this message to the senior Coordinator, who was with her, and they happened to be next to the Chief of Police (who had briefed them only hours before.) The Chief of Police argued and said that wasn’t possible because they would only lock the gates if that part of the lawn was full – and that that area held ONE MILLION people and there was no way we had one million people. My roommate said a few seconds later the Chief of Police got a call confirming that the gate was locked. As understood by the police, by 10am there were already 1 million people on the lawn.

    ABC, therefore, is totally incorrect in publishing on the Internet at 7:30pm today that there were “60,000 – 70,000.”

    If you would like to contact my roommate to talk to her about this, let me know. You may know someone else in the planning of the event who can give you the same account. A guy in our group is part of Alabama News Platoon. He’s interviewing her right now and will put an article out. We’re gonna send it to Fox. They, too, have been reporting tens of thousands – rather than millions.

    More at http://www.soldiersperspective.us/2009/09/13/tea-party-post-show/

  71. 09/14/2009Sharon 2 says:

    Black Lion,

    This is another excerpt from A Soldier’s Perspective (CJ Grisham). I think it is a fair point. I have never seen CJ discuss the “birther” issue, but he certainly is in favor of tea parties to protest against our government. He is a member of our military.

    ***

    The MSM was focused on the 4-day old fake controversy surrounding Joe Wilson when he shouted that Obama had told a “lie.” Funny that this is a controversy since the President had just called many of those in the room and a majority of Americans that they were liars.

    “Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.”

    Not a misunderstanding. Not an inaccurate interpretation. He called a lot of people liars right there. Right after he said that, he went to basically call those who read the bill and saw no provision preventing illegal immigrants from seeking health care under this liars as well. After being called liars twice, once specifically and once implicitly, Joe Wilson fired back and said “You lie!” And THAT is the controversy, not that the President used that EXACT same chamber where Pelosi wants to censure Wilson to call the American people and many in that rooms liars!

    http://www.soldiersperspective.us/2009/09/13/tea-party-post-show/

  72. 09/14/2009Anonymous says:

    Anonymous says:
    September 14, 2009 at 5:51 pm
    [This poster stated the following:]

    if you haven’t seen the animated gif at the bottom of this page, you might want to take a look:

    http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2009/09/912-attendance-metrics-1-million-plus.html

    Sorry, folks! Turns out, the base image is not from 9/12; it is from Promise Keepers.

  73. 09/15/2009Sue says:

    http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2368&start=175#p67712

    A new “official quotation” regarding the crowd size at the DC Tea Party is going viral on the right wing blogs. It is invariably a repost of this paragraph or some minor variation:

    “The truth will out. Despite mainstream media attempts to characterize turnout as in the thousands, a spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, is quoted as saying “It is a record…. We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

    http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/1/419875.html
    http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/ … ment-17842

    “Unfortunately for the Right, there is no such person as “Dan Bana” working as a spokesman for the NPS. There is however a “David Barna” who does, and he has said exactly those words:

    David Barna, a Park Service spokesman, said the agency did not conduct its own count. Instead, it will use a Washington Post account that said 1.8 million people gathered on the US Capitol grounds, National Mall, and parade route.

    “It is a record,” Barna said. “We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic … dc_record/

    The problem, though, is that Barna was not speaking in September of 2009 about the Tea Party. He was speaking in January of 2009 about the Obama Inauguration.

    So not only are the Tea Partiers fraudulently stealing old photographs to pump up their otherwise flaccid performance Saturday, they are also fraudulently stealing old quotations.”

  74. 09/15/2009Black Lion says:

    Sharon 2 says:
    September 14, 2009 at 10:32 pm
    Black Lion,

    This is another excerpt from A Soldier’s Perspective (CJ Grisham). I think it is a fair point. I have never seen CJ discuss the “birther” issue, but he certainly is in favor of tea parties to protest against our government. He is a member of our military.

    ***

    The MSM was focused on the 4-day old fake controversy surrounding Joe Wilson when he shouted that Obama had told a “lie.” Funny that this is a controversy since the President had just called many of those in the room and a majority of Americans that they were liars.

    “Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.”

    Not a misunderstanding. Not an inaccurate interpretation. He called a lot of people liars right there. Right after he said that, he went to basically call those who read the bill and saw no provision preventing illegal immigrants from seeking health care under this liars as well. After being called liars twice, once specifically and once implicitly, Joe Wilson fired back and said “You lie!” And THAT is the controversy, not that the President used that EXACT same chamber where Pelosi wants to censure Wilson to call the American people and many in that rooms liars!
    _________________________________________________________________
    Sharon2, I respect your opinion and he has an interesting perspective. But I do have one question. Was there language in the bill for the so called death panels? According to people that read it from both sides, there was not and language in the bill regarding that. It was not true and some people knew that but repeated that because it would scare people against the bill. So if that was not true, then the people that did perpetuate that misinformation were lying. And unless Joe Wilson was one of those people, he should have not been offended.

    Secondly regarding illegal immigrants being covered. Again there was no language that stated that they would be covered. So when the President stated that they would not be covered, he was in essence telling the truth. So unless Mr. Wilson had some direct information that contradicted what the President said, then he was wrong in saying that “you lie”. And so far he has not produced any information that the proposed bill does cover illegal immigrants. So again he was incorrect.

    The essential issue comes down to respect. If Rep. Wilson had an issue with what the President said, that was not the venue to make that statement. That is why the House is considering censure. Can you imagine if a democratic Rep. had yelled out liar to former President Bush when he address congress after no WMD’s were found how that individual would have been vilified?

    Rep. Wilson could have handled the issue in other ways. He could have called a press conference right after the speech and made his case that the President was not telling the truth. But remember he would have needed evidence that was the case. Evidence that would have been sections in the bill that established so called “death panels” and called for illegal immigrants to get coverage. Since that language is not in there, it seems like he was wrong on both counts.

  75. 09/15/2009Benaiah says:

    WSJ: Obama Is Pushing Israel Toward War
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203917304574410672271269390.html

    “…All this only helps persuade Israel’s skittish leadership that when President Obama calls a nuclear-armed Iran “unacceptable,” he means it approximately in the same way a parent does when fecklessly reprimanding his misbehaving teenager. That impression is strengthened by Mr. Obama’s decision to drop Iran from the agenda when he chairs a meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Sept. 24; by Defense Secretary Robert Gates publicly opposing military strikes on Iran’s nuclear facilities; and by Russia’s announcement that it will not support any further sanctions on Iran.

    In sum, the conclusion among Israelis is that the Obama administration won’t lift a finger to stop Iran, much less will the ‘international community.’ ”

    Obama Submits to the Iranian Mullahs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7hc_CI3f1A

    “My administration is now committed to diplomacy [appeasement] that addresses the full range of issues before us and to pursuing constructive ties among the United States, Iran [Mullahs] , and the international community [57 Islamic States]. This process will not be advanced by threats [except to American infidels who oppose allah and my benevolent administration]. We seek engagement [submission to Islam] that is honest [deceptive] and grounded in mutual respect [deception]…”

  76. 09/15/2009Benaiah says:

    Of Allah and the holy cow
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251804570962&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    The severed head of a cow was recently the center of attention in Malaysia as a group of more than 50 Muslim men gathered outside a state mosque and marched to a government office proudly carrying a cow’s head as a symbol of protest while chanting the world-famous praise “Allahu akbar.” The subject of the protest was as strange as the symbol called upon to represent it: The Muslim group was against the construction of a Hindu temple in their district. “I challenge the state to go on with the temple construction. I guarantee bloodshed and the state will be held responsible. Allahu akbar!” said the group’s spokesman.
    Dozens of Malaysian Muslims…

    Dozens of Malaysian Muslims paraded in late August with the head of a cow, a sacred animal in Hinduism, in a dramatic protest against the proposed construction of a Hindu temple in their neighborhood.

    “With a temple in our area, we cannot function properly as Muslims. The temple would disrupt our daily activities,” said another. It is difficult to imagine how a Hindu place of worship could prevent Muslims from functioning properly. More so when such temples do not blare out calls to prayer five times a day beginning at dawn, as is done by mosques across the nation.

    The motivation behind parading a cow’s head for their cause was obvious: Hindus deem the cow a sacred animal. The Muslim protesters spat at the cow’s head and took turns stepping on it as if to display the superiority of their faith. The subject of the protest, and the symbol chosen to represent it, reinforced a common fear among non-Muslim minorities: that religious intolerance is becoming increasingly entrenched in Malaysian [Islamic] society.

    Obama addresses Muslims on Ramadan
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418668609&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    “These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.”

    Obama declares US not at war with Islam
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97CVOMG0&show_article=1

    “We seek broad engagement based upon mutual interests and mutual respect. …We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better, including my own country.”

  77. 09/15/2009Black Lion says:

    Regarding the crowd estimates and the picture that was circulated regarding the 9/12 rally on Saturday…..

    “So supporters of Saturday’s “tea party” protests against President Barack Obama were quick to highlight their big turnout. To bolster countless claims on blogs and Facebook, many posted a photograph that showed a gargantuan crowd sprawling from Capitol Hill down the National Mall to the Washington Monument.

    It appears that the photo was actually taken in 1997 at a rally for Promise Keepers, a group for Christian men. According to the group’s Web site, nearly 1 million people attended the event. Photos of the Oct. 4, 1997, event that were posted on various Web sites in 2003, 2008 and earlier this year show either the same picture or a similar photo that has identical tents and what appear to be TV screens in the same locations.”

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/sep/14/tea-party-photo-shows-large-crowd-different-event/

    The number may have been closer to 70,000…

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/size-matters-so-do-lies.html

    Not sure what this all means. But if the number was inflated what was the point of doing that begs the question.

  78. 09/15/2009Lawyer from Missouri says:

    Just beautiful. And what was really amazing is how CLEAN they left the place after they left compared to Obama’s inauguration which was a pig sty.

  79. 09/15/2009Black Lion says:

    Black Lion says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    September 15, 2009 at 8:37 am
    Sharon 2 says:
    September 14, 2009 at 10:32 pm
    Black Lion,

    This is another excerpt from A Soldier’s Perspective (CJ Grisham). I think it is a fair point. I have never seen CJ discuss the “birther” issue, but he certainly is in favor of tea parties to protest against our government. He is a member of our military.

    ***

    The MSM was focused on the 4-day old fake controversy surrounding Joe Wilson when he shouted that Obama had told a “lie.” Funny that this is a controversy since the President had just called many of those in the room and a majority of Americans that they were liars.

    “Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.”

    Not a misunderstanding. Not an inaccurate interpretation. He called a lot of people liars right there. Right after he said that, he went to basically call those who read the bill and saw no provision preventing illegal immigrants from seeking health care under this liars as well. After being called liars twice, once specifically and once implicitly, Joe Wilson fired back and said “You lie!” And THAT is the controversy, not that the President used that EXACT same chamber where Pelosi wants to censure Wilson to call the American people and many in that rooms liars!
    ___________________________________________________________________
    Sharon2,

    I just wanted to follow up regarding the article you submitted. The individual that is defending Joe Wilson by saying he was just responding to the “President’s lies” may want to check his facts again. I know I responded earlier regarding this issue but I wanted to provide some actual sources for you to read for yourself.

    For instance in regards to illegal aliens being allowed to have coverage, on page 143 of the bill it says the following…

    SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
    “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

    That pretty much states that people here illegally are not going to get covered. So where did the President lie?

    And regarding the death panels for senior citizens, the bill actually says the following…

    “The section that some claim is for death panels is “Section 1233 of H.R. 3200, which is titled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” Factcheck explained a few weeks ago, that it “would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning counseling sessions with a health care practitioner.” What this section actually does in the following “it modifies Section 1861(s)2 of the Social Security Act, defining what services Medicare will pay for. So if a patient receives a counseling session from a doctor or health care practitioner, he or she doesn’t have to pay for it – Medicare will. As we pointed out in our earlier story, Medicare will also pay for prosthetic limbs, but that doesn’t mean that every recipient gets those, too.”

    http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/palin-vs-obama-death-panels/

    Or the following….

    “We have read all 1,000-plus pages of the Democratic bill and examined versions in various committees. There is no panel in any version of the health care bills in Congress that judges a person’s “level of productivity in society” to determine whether they are “worthy” of health care.”

    “The truth is that the health bill allows Medicare, for the first time, to pay for doctors’ appointments for patients to discuss living wills and other end-of-life issues with their physicians. These types of appointments are completely optional, and AARP supports the measure.”

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/10/sarah-palin/sarah-palin-barack-obama-death-panel/

    So again where did the President lie? Mr. Wilson broke the rules of decorum and etiquette for the House of Reps. Whether we agree with him or not. The House has every right to look to censure him if it is in their rules, which it is.

  80. 09/15/2009Phil says:

    Sue,

    http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2368&start=175#p67712

    A new “official quotation” regarding the crowd size at the DC Tea Party is going viral on the right wing blogs. It is invariably a repost of this paragraph or some minor variation:

    “The truth will out. Despite mainstream media attempts to characterize turnout as in the thousands, a spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, is quoted as saying “It is a record…. We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

    http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/1/419875.html
    http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/ … ment-17842

    “Unfortunately for the Right, there is no such person as “Dan Bana” working as a spokesman for the NPS. There is however a “David Barna” who does, and he has said exactly those words:

    David Barna, a Park Service spokesman, said the agency did not conduct its own count. Instead, it will use a Washington Post account that said 1.8 million people gathered on the US Capitol grounds, National Mall, and parade route.

    “It is a record,” Barna said. “We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic … dc_record/

    The problem, though, is that Barna was not speaking in September of 2009 about the Tea Party. He was speaking in January of 2009 about the Obama Inauguration.

    So not only are the Tea Partiers fraudulently stealing old photographs to pump up their otherwise flaccid performance Saturday, they are also fraudulently stealing old quotations.”

    Old news, my dear opposition commenter. I’ve already changed this posting to reflect what another commenter had already brought to this blog’s attention.

    -Phil

  81. 09/15/2009Sharon 2 says:

    Black Lion,

    SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
    “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    <<< The problem as I understand it is that Republicans wanted an amendment to verify the lawful presence of citizens, and the amendment was voted down. (lip service conerning illegals) It is also my understanding that after this brouhaha, documentation of aliens is now on the table again.

    Sharon2, I respect your opinion and he has an interesting perspective. But I do have one question. Was there language in the bill for the so called death panels? According to people that read it from both sides, there was not and language in the bill regarding that.

    <<< I recently heard Ambassador Keyes address this point and I will not be able to replicate his words exactly, but here is my best. That question is an insult to the people's intelligence. Of course the words death panels do not appear. No one ever said they did. When you add millions more people to a health care system with the same number of doctors/nurses, heath care will be rationed. Who will get "rationed out?" The elderly (and other vulnerable people).
    Who will be making the decisions in health care?

    As for the AARP, USA Today: AARP loses members over health care stance… http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-08-17-aarp-health-overhaul_N.htm

    You may not agree with CJ GRisham's perspective, but I would hope you would not consider him a racist.

    "So again where did the President lie? Mr. Wilson broke the rules of decorum and etiquette for the House of Reps."

    <<< Do you REALLY want to go there- the rules of decorum and etiquette were ALWAYS followed for Bush, weren't they?

  82. 09/15/2009Benaiah says:

    Sign The Resolution Of Support For Congressman Joe Wilson
    http://houseconservatives.com/joewilson&c=2057X

  83. 09/15/2009Sue says:

    The Larry Sinclair Affidavit is on scribd now. It’s 6 pages long.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/19784205/0909 … assic_ui=1

    Edit: Cynthia Davis was there with Orly, Smith and Sinclair.

  84. 09/15/2009Phil says:

    Sue,

    The Larry Sinclair Affidavit is on scribd now. It’s 6 pages long.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/19784205/0909 … assic_ui=1

    Edit: Cynthia Davis was there with Orly, Smith and Sinclair.

    Please repost the link in its full form.

    -Phil

  85. 09/15/2009Sue says:

    “Regardless, several eyewitness accounts put the figure for the entire day somewhere between 1 – 2 million.”

    -Phil,

    It appears they need to purchase glasses or learn how to count.

  86. 09/15/2009Sue says:

    Sinclair affidavit.

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/19784205/090915-LWS-Affidavit-Reducedpx?classic_ui=1

    Hmmm, Sinclair and Smith are saying some not so nice things about Dr. Taitz.

  87. 09/15/2009Sharon 2 says:

    Concerning the 8:43 comment, I don’t see what “Smith” said, but Orly really should be admonished for trying to tack on two other murders to Sinclair’s testimony; it is only one murder that Sinclair is accusing Obama of.

  88. 09/16/2009Black Lion says:

    Sharon 2 says:
    September 15, 2009 at 4:38 pm
    Black Lion,

    SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
    “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    <<< The problem as I understand it is that Republicans wanted an amendment to verify the lawful presence of citizens, and the amendment was voted down. (lip service conerning illegals) It is also my understanding that after this brouhaha, documentation of aliens is now on the table again.

    That may be true but that doesn't change the fact that it was not in the bill so the President did not lie. As of the speech there was no plan for illegal immigrants to get coverage under the bill. To make an accusation that someone is lying you would need direct proof that he/she is. And in this case the fact that what he specifically accused him of lying about is not in the bill. Period. That is what we are discussing.

    <<< I recently heard Ambassador Keyes address this point and I will not be able to replicate his words exactly, but here is my best. That question is an insult to the people's intelligence. Of course the words death panels do not appear. No one ever said they did. When you add millions more people to a health care system with the same number of doctors/nurses, heath care will be rationed. Who will get "rationed out?" The elderly (and other vulnerable people).
    Who will be making the decisions in health care?

    Actually former Gov. Palin did use the word "death panels" in her infamous Facebook post. Secondly the Republicans proposed a plan where all people would be required to get insurance from providers or they would be fined. That would seem to do the same thing and add millions to the system. So where was the outrage then. Either way the bill nowhere indicates that people will be rationed out or dropped due to age or how sick they are. With all due respect to Amb. Keyes his response is a insult to anyone that can read. But the point was did the President lie? And since the bill does not call for whatever was implied about rationing care or dropping the elderly, then he did not. So again Rep. Wilson was wrong.

    As for the AARP, USA Today: AARP loses members over health care stance… http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-08-17-aarp-health-overhaul_N.htm

    You may not agree with CJ GRisham's perspective, but I would hope you would not consider him a racist.

    I do not. He is expressing his opinion, which leads to stimulating debate. I believe calling someone a racist is a serious charge so if you are going to make that comment there had better be a lot of evidence to support you claim.

    "So again where did the President lie? Mr. Wilson broke the rules of decorum and etiquette for the House of Reps."

    I still stand by that statement, where did the President lie? Rep. Wilson either didn't read the bill or was misinformed. Either way he was wrong in accusing the President of lying and saying that in the venue he did.

    <<< Do you REALLY want to go there- the rules of decorum and etiquette were ALWAYS followed for Bush, weren't they?

    Maybe or maybe not. However I am positive that no Democratic Congressperson or Senator ever yelled out any comments while President Bush was speaking. That was the point. You just don't do that. Whether or not you agree with Rep. Wilson's politics he did breach the etiquette rules of Congress and that should be noted.

  89. 09/16/2009Sharon 2 says:

    Actually former Gov. Palin did use the word “death panels” in her infamous Facebook post.

    Nice stab at Palin, but I don’t think she said that the words “Death Panels” were used in the bill. It is the resultant effect for those who ponder the situation.

    As for the rebuke of Wilson? Even Barney Frank wasn’t down with that.

    I don’t know how old you are, or if you have elderly parents, but rationed care is a frightening thought.

    As for the language in the bill,

    http://www.fairus.org/site/News2/1929724780?page=NewsArticle&id=21337&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1012#1

    And then

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/10/rep-wilson-outburst-leads-senate-dems-close-loophole-health-reform/

  90. 09/16/2009Black Lion says:

    Sharon 2 says:
    September 16, 2009 at 1:31 pm
    Actually former Gov. Palin did use the word “death panels” in her infamous Facebook post.

    “Nice stab at Palin, but I don’t think she said that the words “Death Panels” were used in the bill. It is the resultant effect for those who ponder the situation.”

    Correct. she did not specifically state that the words “death panels” were in the bill. Instead she implied that the bill would set up death panels and such for the sick and the elderly. And there is no need to “stab at Palin.” She provides enough ammo for her detractors every time she opens her mouth and misspeaks.

    As for the rebuke of Wilson? Even Barney Frank wasn’t down with that.

    Maybe not Barney Frank (who cares) but thank goodness the rest of his colleagues in the House were willing to do something.

    “The office of House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) posted the full text of the resolution condemning Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) to be presented before the House of Representatives.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/58841-full-text-joe-wilson-resolution-

    “I don’t know how old you are, or if you have elderly parents, but rationed care is a frightening thought.”

    I do have elderly parents so I would agree with you. Rationed health care is a scary thought. So is the practice if denying people coverage due to prior conditions. Or companies dropping people for no reason. Or companies refusing to pay for treatments that may save your life. This is what is happening currently. Which is definately a frightening thought for me.

  91. 09/16/2009Sharon 2 says:

    So is the practice if denying people coverage due to prior conditions. Or companies dropping people for no reason. Or companies refusing to pay for treatments that may save your life. This is what is happening currently. Which is definately a frightening thought for me.

    <<< I agree that all these reforms all needed with tort reform added. Palin brought rationed care to the forefront. It was necessary to bring that consideration forward. Change the system; don’t dump it. I think several concessions are being made by the Administration. Thank God the bill didn’t pass as quickly as it would have without the people making a stand. Say what you will about townhalls; it made our government stop in its tracks and consider. Health care legislation is a big issue that needs debated, not rammed through.