Up to 2 Million Freedom Lovers in DC; White House: “Know nothing” of Protest; National Park Service: “It is a record” — Or Is It?

Monday, September 14, 2009 Update: Via AmericanThinker.com:

The truth will out. Despite mainstream media attempts to characterize turnout as in the thousands, a spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, is quoted as saying “It is a record…. We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

Ah, but check out the comment by “Hellspawn“… I thank you, blogosphere, for helping keep everyone on the up-and-up for potential pwnage/mis/disinformation.

Yes, the opposition is going nuts and attempting to stick with a 5-digit number to express the size of the crowd. Funny how the opposition sticks to the size of a crowd versus taking on the expression of the protest.

Another blogger who was at the protest, ThePersistentConservative, claims 1.5 million showed up.

Congratulations, folks — the original tea party movement spawned what LibertarianRepublican is calling the “largest libertarian protest in history:”

It’s official. All major media are now reporting between 1.5 to 2 million marches on Washington D.C. for the Tea Party Protest. Sponsored by libertarian groups such as Americans for Prosperity, Freedom Works, and self-described “libertarian” Fox News Host Glenn Beck, today’s event is now the largest libertarian event in the history of the United States.

TheHopeForAmerica.com posted an excellent music video.

Michelle Malkin has estimated the size of the multitude at 2 million.

The following time-lapse video shows the multitude:

The Atlanta Examiner.com is also reporting on the 2 million figure. @LadyImpactOhio, one of today’s protestors, says the following:

Freedomworks announced (I heard it)  and I asked Capitol police estimates on crowd #s.  Both said 1.5 mil…

What really happened is this. There were really 2 waves of people. Yes probably 2 mil total but not all at the same time. Was the gathering early in the day at Freedom Plaza but not all stayed for the Capitol. Then another wave in early pm for Capitol Rally. I am confident 2 mil is too high. At least for all the same time.

Monday, September 14, 2009 Update: @LadyImpactOhio made the following prescient comment to opposition commenter, “Sue:”

Sue:

Longtime, no see.

I was one of the many of hundreds of thousands of Patriots who had the extraordinary privilege of being a part of history: 912 DC.

Yes, Sue; I was there. I was in the thick of things. I marched down Pennsylvania Ave. from Freedom Plaza and saw the words of the 1st Amendment etched on the side of a building. A pretty awesome site. I saw babes in arms, young children being towed by parents who were teaching them about what “liberty and freedom and the right to peacefully assemble” are all about. I saw elderly folks, who told me they had never dreamed they would ever do anything like this, but felt the future of America was at stake. People who told me they dug into savings accounts to make this trip. It was that important to them.

It’s too bad that folks such as yourself are so full of vitriol and sarcasm; and feel threatened by ordinary Americans such as myself and others who attended. And you know what? There was not one arrest. No one hauled off in handcuffs. No fights. We picked up after ourselves. We behaved and acted responsibly. Disappointed, aren’t you? The only person who DID NOT behave responsibly was the person who phoned in a bomb threat to FreedomWorks, one of the sponsors of the event.

Funny how some people feel threatened at the thought of a little liberty, right Sue?

Have a nice day.

The AmericanPower blog has a good link roundup.

The UK’s DailyMail is also reporting that “a million” [or was that two million, based on the Daily Mail’s article title in the browser tab??] protested today. Besides being a good article, they have some fantastic pictures to boot (including the one I used for this posting):

Tens of thousands of people converged on Capitol Hill on Saturday to protest against government spending

US President Barack Obama sports a mustache famously worn by German dictator Adolf Hitler

Demonstrators hold up banners on Capitol Hill in Washington on Saturday

march

The heated demonstrations were organized by a Conservative group called the Tea Party Patriots

'Parasite-in-chief': The title given to the American President during the demonstrations on Saturday

RedState is running with the Daily Mail’s number of 2 million; they also sport the following excellent pic:

teaparty2.jpg

Whatever the official estimate turns out to be, the New York Times reports that DC authorities were taken “by surprise:”

But the magnitude of the rally took the authorities by surprise, with throngs of people streaming from the White House to Capitol Hill for more than three hours.

And, as FoxNews reports, the Dems had been trying to make political hay over the expectations of the turnout today.

C-SPAN has a 2 1/2 hour video clip of the protest.

Here’s an excellent video to really get the juices flowing:

The AmericanPower blog has a couple of excellent updates. In their first, they present an original crowd estimate of 1.2 million:

The New York Times reports on today’s 9-12 events in Washington, with the title, “Thousands Rally in Capital to Protest Big Government.” But check Doug Powers, “9/12 March on Washington Live Video Link. As he notes at the post, “Unconfirmed reports are that the DC Police are estimating the crowd at 1.2 million and growing.” It turns out, naturally, that crowd size is a political football. See, “Managing Expectations: Crowd Size for D.C. Rally Sparks Fight.”

No matter. Check Michelle Malkin’s post here, “Celebrating the 9/12 Rallies” (with live-streaming video). Plus, the Wall Street Journal, “Conservatives Gather in Capital.” (Via Memeorandum.)

Here’s an excellent “background” video from the above post:


Watch Taxpayer March on Washington DC, 9-12-2009 in Activism & Non-Profit |  View More Free Videos Online at Veoh.com

Secondly:

Pamela Geller has some great coverage of events, “A Failed Presidency …. And Its Only Six Months, Hundreds of Thousands On the Mall.” Pics at Instapundit! And Michelle Malkin, “Update: Turnout Estimated at 2 Million.”

[Pic from Ms. Geller:]

Tea party dc

Check also Nice Deb. And Vodkapundit has lots of pictures, with updates throughout the day (via Memeorandum). And at Newsbusters, “WaPo Presents 9-12 Event as GOP Danger, Full of ‘Right-Wing Nutballs’ and ‘Freaks’.”

The White House is trying to blow off the event. But as Jennifer Rubin notes:

The long-term consequences of this and the preceding populist gatherings are hard to predict. We may see a more libertarian Republican party. A huge turnout for 2010 may result. New, real outsiders may enter politics. And, of course, these protests may scare the dickens out of lawmakers. But while everyone is decrying the collapse of civility and the resulting harm to the country, it is worth noting that we are witnessing a grassroots outpouring of support for limited government, the rule of law, fiscal sobriety, and generational responsibility. That must be heartening to conservatives, but more than that, it is a tribute to the vitality of our democracy and the energy of its citizenry. And that is a very good thing indeed.

The above AmericanPower posting references a source that goes back to The Wall Street Journal which reported that the White House “professed to know nothing” about the event:

White House officials on Friday professed to know nothing of the planned demonstrations. White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs queried reporters about the planners and their issues. “I don’t know who the group is,” he said with a shrug.

As Breitbart reports on how Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) was a speaker at the party:

…MSNBC opines in a news article about how some GOP “strategists” and “observers” are worried over being associated with “extreme protestors:”

But top Republican strategists and many party observers also worry about the impact that the most extreme protesters might have on the party’s image, including those who carry swastika signs or obsess over the veracity of Obama’s Hawaiian birth.

Mark McKinnon, a former adviser to Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) and other Republicans, said there is an “opportunity for Republicans” to tap into legitimate fears about an overreaching federal government. But he said that “right-wing nutballs are aligning themselves with these movements” and are dominating media coverage.

“It’s bad for Republicans because in the absence of any real leadership, the freaks fill the void and define the party,” McKinnon said. [emphasis mine]

Cry me a river.

As with the original tea parties, CNN once again found themselves in the midst of #iamthemob with the inability to report on the news. HotAir.com’s take on the CNN kerfluffle included the following interesting commentary:

Revenge for the now legendary Susan Roesgen incident via TV Newser. Watch to the end or else you’ll miss the crowd reaction when she asks about Joe Wilson.

Update: To the great surprise of exactly no one, Wilson has now outraised opponent Rob Miller since Wednesday night’s ourburst.

Rounding out my posting, here are some more pictures from this Windows Live site:

Sunday, September 13, 2009 Update: More pics — from Strata-Sphere.com:

From StealthFusion.com:

And, in conclusion, AmericanThinker.com posted an article entitled, “The spark that has triggered rebellion” by Ellen Sauerbrey, the former Minority Leader in the Maryland Houe of Delegates.

Sunday, September 13, 2009 Update: AmericanThinker.com posted another article on the protest entitled, “9/12 was a transformative event.”

Stephanie Jasky, founder of FedUpUSA.org, wrote the following missive concerning the day’s activities:

912 Protest Washington DC FINAL

Regardless of the specific number of individuals who showed up, it appears that the point was made.

Washington, you’re on notice.

-Phil

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91 thoughts on “Up to 2 Million Freedom Lovers in DC; White House: “Know nothing” of Protest; National Park Service: “It is a record” — Or Is It?”

  1. So is the practice if denying people coverage due to prior conditions. Or companies dropping people for no reason. Or companies refusing to pay for treatments that may save your life. This is what is happening currently. Which is definately a frightening thought for me.

    <<< I agree that all these reforms all needed with tort reform added. Palin brought rationed care to the forefront. It was necessary to bring that consideration forward. Change the system; don’t dump it. I think several concessions are being made by the Administration. Thank God the bill didn’t pass as quickly as it would have without the people making a stand. Say what you will about townhalls; it made our government stop in its tracks and consider. Health care legislation is a big issue that needs debated, not rammed through.

  2. Sharon 2 says:
    September 16, 2009 at 1:31 pm
    Actually former Gov. Palin did use the word “death panels” in her infamous Facebook post.

    “Nice stab at Palin, but I don’t think she said that the words “Death Panels” were used in the bill. It is the resultant effect for those who ponder the situation.”

    Correct. she did not specifically state that the words “death panels” were in the bill. Instead she implied that the bill would set up death panels and such for the sick and the elderly. And there is no need to “stab at Palin.” She provides enough ammo for her detractors every time she opens her mouth and misspeaks.

    As for the rebuke of Wilson? Even Barney Frank wasn’t down with that.

    Maybe not Barney Frank (who cares) but thank goodness the rest of his colleagues in the House were willing to do something.

    “The office of House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) posted the full text of the resolution condemning Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) to be presented before the House of Representatives.”

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/58841-full-text-joe-wilson-resolution-

    “I don’t know how old you are, or if you have elderly parents, but rationed care is a frightening thought.”

    I do have elderly parents so I would agree with you. Rationed health care is a scary thought. So is the practice if denying people coverage due to prior conditions. Or companies dropping people for no reason. Or companies refusing to pay for treatments that may save your life. This is what is happening currently. Which is definately a frightening thought for me.

  3. Actually former Gov. Palin did use the word “death panels” in her infamous Facebook post.

    Nice stab at Palin, but I don’t think she said that the words “Death Panels” were used in the bill. It is the resultant effect for those who ponder the situation.

    As for the rebuke of Wilson? Even Barney Frank wasn’t down with that.

    I don’t know how old you are, or if you have elderly parents, but rationed care is a frightening thought.

    As for the language in the bill,

    http://www.fairus.org/site/News2/1929724780?page=NewsArticle&id=21337&security=1601&news_iv_ctrl=1012#1

    And then

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/10/rep-wilson-outburst-leads-senate-dems-close-loophole-health-reform/

  4. Sharon 2 says:
    September 15, 2009 at 4:38 pm
    Black Lion,

    SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
    “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    <<< The problem as I understand it is that Republicans wanted an amendment to verify the lawful presence of citizens, and the amendment was voted down. (lip service conerning illegals) It is also my understanding that after this brouhaha, documentation of aliens is now on the table again.

    That may be true but that doesn't change the fact that it was not in the bill so the President did not lie. As of the speech there was no plan for illegal immigrants to get coverage under the bill. To make an accusation that someone is lying you would need direct proof that he/she is. And in this case the fact that what he specifically accused him of lying about is not in the bill. Period. That is what we are discussing.

    <<< I recently heard Ambassador Keyes address this point and I will not be able to replicate his words exactly, but here is my best. That question is an insult to the people's intelligence. Of course the words death panels do not appear. No one ever said they did. When you add millions more people to a health care system with the same number of doctors/nurses, heath care will be rationed. Who will get "rationed out?" The elderly (and other vulnerable people).
    Who will be making the decisions in health care?

    Actually former Gov. Palin did use the word "death panels" in her infamous Facebook post. Secondly the Republicans proposed a plan where all people would be required to get insurance from providers or they would be fined. That would seem to do the same thing and add millions to the system. So where was the outrage then. Either way the bill nowhere indicates that people will be rationed out or dropped due to age or how sick they are. With all due respect to Amb. Keyes his response is a insult to anyone that can read. But the point was did the President lie? And since the bill does not call for whatever was implied about rationing care or dropping the elderly, then he did not. So again Rep. Wilson was wrong.

    As for the AARP, USA Today: AARP loses members over health care stance… http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-08-17-aarp-health-overhaul_N.htm

    You may not agree with CJ GRisham's perspective, but I would hope you would not consider him a racist.

    I do not. He is expressing his opinion, which leads to stimulating debate. I believe calling someone a racist is a serious charge so if you are going to make that comment there had better be a lot of evidence to support you claim.

    "So again where did the President lie? Mr. Wilson broke the rules of decorum and etiquette for the House of Reps."

    I still stand by that statement, where did the President lie? Rep. Wilson either didn't read the bill or was misinformed. Either way he was wrong in accusing the President of lying and saying that in the venue he did.

    <<< Do you REALLY want to go there- the rules of decorum and etiquette were ALWAYS followed for Bush, weren't they?

    Maybe or maybe not. However I am positive that no Democratic Congressperson or Senator ever yelled out any comments while President Bush was speaking. That was the point. You just don't do that. Whether or not you agree with Rep. Wilson's politics he did breach the etiquette rules of Congress and that should be noted.

  5. Concerning the 8:43 comment, I don’t see what “Smith” said, but Orly really should be admonished for trying to tack on two other murders to Sinclair’s testimony; it is only one murder that Sinclair is accusing Obama of.

  6. “Regardless, several eyewitness accounts put the figure for the entire day somewhere between 1 – 2 million.”

    -Phil,

    It appears they need to purchase glasses or learn how to count.

  7. Black Lion,

    SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
    “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    <<< The problem as I understand it is that Republicans wanted an amendment to verify the lawful presence of citizens, and the amendment was voted down. (lip service conerning illegals) It is also my understanding that after this brouhaha, documentation of aliens is now on the table again.

    Sharon2, I respect your opinion and he has an interesting perspective. But I do have one question. Was there language in the bill for the so called death panels? According to people that read it from both sides, there was not and language in the bill regarding that.

    <<< I recently heard Ambassador Keyes address this point and I will not be able to replicate his words exactly, but here is my best. That question is an insult to the people's intelligence. Of course the words death panels do not appear. No one ever said they did. When you add millions more people to a health care system with the same number of doctors/nurses, heath care will be rationed. Who will get "rationed out?" The elderly (and other vulnerable people).
    Who will be making the decisions in health care?

    As for the AARP, USA Today: AARP loses members over health care stance… http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-08-17-aarp-health-overhaul_N.htm

    You may not agree with CJ GRisham's perspective, but I would hope you would not consider him a racist.

    "So again where did the President lie? Mr. Wilson broke the rules of decorum and etiquette for the House of Reps."

    <<< Do you REALLY want to go there- the rules of decorum and etiquette were ALWAYS followed for Bush, weren't they?

  8. Black Lion says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.

    September 15, 2009 at 8:37 am
    Sharon 2 says:
    September 14, 2009 at 10:32 pm
    Black Lion,

    This is another excerpt from A Soldier’s Perspective (CJ Grisham). I think it is a fair point. I have never seen CJ discuss the “birther” issue, but he certainly is in favor of tea parties to protest against our government. He is a member of our military.

    ***

    The MSM was focused on the 4-day old fake controversy surrounding Joe Wilson when he shouted that Obama had told a “lie.” Funny that this is a controversy since the President had just called many of those in the room and a majority of Americans that they were liars.

    “Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.”

    Not a misunderstanding. Not an inaccurate interpretation. He called a lot of people liars right there. Right after he said that, he went to basically call those who read the bill and saw no provision preventing illegal immigrants from seeking health care under this liars as well. After being called liars twice, once specifically and once implicitly, Joe Wilson fired back and said “You lie!” And THAT is the controversy, not that the President used that EXACT same chamber where Pelosi wants to censure Wilson to call the American people and many in that rooms liars!
    ___________________________________________________________________
    Sharon2,

    I just wanted to follow up regarding the article you submitted. The individual that is defending Joe Wilson by saying he was just responding to the “President’s lies” may want to check his facts again. I know I responded earlier regarding this issue but I wanted to provide some actual sources for you to read for yourself.

    For instance in regards to illegal aliens being allowed to have coverage, on page 143 of the bill it says the following…

    SEC. 246. NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS.
    “Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.”

    http://docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf

    That pretty much states that people here illegally are not going to get covered. So where did the President lie?

    And regarding the death panels for senior citizens, the bill actually says the following…

    “The section that some claim is for death panels is “Section 1233 of H.R. 3200, which is titled “Advance Care Planning Consultation.” Factcheck explained a few weeks ago, that it “would require Medicare to pay for some end-of-life planning counseling sessions with a health care practitioner.” What this section actually does in the following “it modifies Section 1861(s)2 of the Social Security Act, defining what services Medicare will pay for. So if a patient receives a counseling session from a doctor or health care practitioner, he or she doesn’t have to pay for it – Medicare will. As we pointed out in our earlier story, Medicare will also pay for prosthetic limbs, but that doesn’t mean that every recipient gets those, too.”

    http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/palin-vs-obama-death-panels/

    Or the following….

    “We have read all 1,000-plus pages of the Democratic bill and examined versions in various committees. There is no panel in any version of the health care bills in Congress that judges a person’s “level of productivity in society” to determine whether they are “worthy” of health care.”

    “The truth is that the health bill allows Medicare, for the first time, to pay for doctors’ appointments for patients to discuss living wills and other end-of-life issues with their physicians. These types of appointments are completely optional, and AARP supports the measure.”

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/aug/10/sarah-palin/sarah-palin-barack-obama-death-panel/

    So again where did the President lie? Mr. Wilson broke the rules of decorum and etiquette for the House of Reps. Whether we agree with him or not. The House has every right to look to censure him if it is in their rules, which it is.

  9. Just beautiful. And what was really amazing is how CLEAN they left the place after they left compared to Obama’s inauguration which was a pig sty.

  10. Regarding the crowd estimates and the picture that was circulated regarding the 9/12 rally on Saturday…..

    “So supporters of Saturday’s “tea party” protests against President Barack Obama were quick to highlight their big turnout. To bolster countless claims on blogs and Facebook, many posted a photograph that showed a gargantuan crowd sprawling from Capitol Hill down the National Mall to the Washington Monument.

    It appears that the photo was actually taken in 1997 at a rally for Promise Keepers, a group for Christian men. According to the group’s Web site, nearly 1 million people attended the event. Photos of the Oct. 4, 1997, event that were posted on various Web sites in 2003, 2008 and earlier this year show either the same picture or a similar photo that has identical tents and what appear to be TV screens in the same locations.”

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2009/sep/14/tea-party-photo-shows-large-crowd-different-event/

    The number may have been closer to 70,000…

    http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/09/size-matters-so-do-lies.html

    Not sure what this all means. But if the number was inflated what was the point of doing that begs the question.

  11. Of Allah and the holy cow
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251804570962&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    The severed head of a cow was recently the center of attention in Malaysia as a group of more than 50 Muslim men gathered outside a state mosque and marched to a government office proudly carrying a cow’s head as a symbol of protest while chanting the world-famous praise “Allahu akbar.” The subject of the protest was as strange as the symbol called upon to represent it: The Muslim group was against the construction of a Hindu temple in their district. “I challenge the state to go on with the temple construction. I guarantee bloodshed and the state will be held responsible. Allahu akbar!” said the group’s spokesman.
    Dozens of Malaysian Muslims…

    Dozens of Malaysian Muslims paraded in late August with the head of a cow, a sacred animal in Hinduism, in a dramatic protest against the proposed construction of a Hindu temple in their neighborhood.

    “With a temple in our area, we cannot function properly as Muslims. The temple would disrupt our daily activities,” said another. It is difficult to imagine how a Hindu place of worship could prevent Muslims from functioning properly. More so when such temples do not blare out calls to prayer five times a day beginning at dawn, as is done by mosques across the nation.

    The motivation behind parading a cow’s head for their cause was obvious: Hindus deem the cow a sacred animal. The Muslim protesters spat at the cow’s head and took turns stepping on it as if to display the superiority of their faith. The subject of the protest, and the symbol chosen to represent it, reinforced a common fear among non-Muslim minorities: that religious intolerance is becoming increasingly entrenched in Malaysian [Islamic] society.

    Obama addresses Muslims on Ramadan
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418668609&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    “These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.”

    Obama declares US not at war with Islam
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97CVOMG0&show_article=1

    “We seek broad engagement based upon mutual interests and mutual respect. …We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better, including my own country.”

  12. WSJ: Obama Is Pushing Israel Toward War
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203917304574410672271269390.html

    “…All this only helps persuade Israel’s skittish leadership that when President Obama calls a nuclear-armed Iran “unacceptable,” he means it approximately in the same way a parent does when fecklessly reprimanding his misbehaving teenager. That impression is strengthened by Mr. Obama’s decision to drop Iran from the agenda when he chairs a meeting of the U.N. Security Council on Sept. 24; by Defense Secretary Robert Gates publicly opposing military strikes on Iran’s nuclear facilities; and by Russia’s announcement that it will not support any further sanctions on Iran.

    In sum, the conclusion among Israelis is that the Obama administration won’t lift a finger to stop Iran, much less will the ‘international community.’ ”

    Obama Submits to the Iranian Mullahs
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7hc_CI3f1A

    “My administration is now committed to diplomacy [appeasement] that addresses the full range of issues before us and to pursuing constructive ties among the United States, Iran [Mullahs] , and the international community [57 Islamic States]. This process will not be advanced by threats [except to American infidels who oppose allah and my benevolent administration]. We seek engagement [submission to Islam] that is honest [deceptive] and grounded in mutual respect [deception]…”

  13. Sharon 2 says:
    September 14, 2009 at 10:32 pm
    Black Lion,

    This is another excerpt from A Soldier’s Perspective (CJ Grisham). I think it is a fair point. I have never seen CJ discuss the “birther” issue, but he certainly is in favor of tea parties to protest against our government. He is a member of our military.

    ***

    The MSM was focused on the 4-day old fake controversy surrounding Joe Wilson when he shouted that Obama had told a “lie.” Funny that this is a controversy since the President had just called many of those in the room and a majority of Americans that they were liars.

    “Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.”

    Not a misunderstanding. Not an inaccurate interpretation. He called a lot of people liars right there. Right after he said that, he went to basically call those who read the bill and saw no provision preventing illegal immigrants from seeking health care under this liars as well. After being called liars twice, once specifically and once implicitly, Joe Wilson fired back and said “You lie!” And THAT is the controversy, not that the President used that EXACT same chamber where Pelosi wants to censure Wilson to call the American people and many in that rooms liars!
    _________________________________________________________________
    Sharon2, I respect your opinion and he has an interesting perspective. But I do have one question. Was there language in the bill for the so called death panels? According to people that read it from both sides, there was not and language in the bill regarding that. It was not true and some people knew that but repeated that because it would scare people against the bill. So if that was not true, then the people that did perpetuate that misinformation were lying. And unless Joe Wilson was one of those people, he should have not been offended.

    Secondly regarding illegal immigrants being covered. Again there was no language that stated that they would be covered. So when the President stated that they would not be covered, he was in essence telling the truth. So unless Mr. Wilson had some direct information that contradicted what the President said, then he was wrong in saying that “you lie”. And so far he has not produced any information that the proposed bill does cover illegal immigrants. So again he was incorrect.

    The essential issue comes down to respect. If Rep. Wilson had an issue with what the President said, that was not the venue to make that statement. That is why the House is considering censure. Can you imagine if a democratic Rep. had yelled out liar to former President Bush when he address congress after no WMD’s were found how that individual would have been vilified?

    Rep. Wilson could have handled the issue in other ways. He could have called a press conference right after the speech and made his case that the President was not telling the truth. But remember he would have needed evidence that was the case. Evidence that would have been sections in the bill that established so called “death panels” and called for illegal immigrants to get coverage. Since that language is not in there, it seems like he was wrong on both counts.

  14. http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2368&start=175#p67712

    A new “official quotation” regarding the crowd size at the DC Tea Party is going viral on the right wing blogs. It is invariably a repost of this paragraph or some minor variation:

    “The truth will out. Despite mainstream media attempts to characterize turnout as in the thousands, a spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, is quoted as saying “It is a record…. We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

    http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/1/419875.html
    http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/ … ment-17842

    “Unfortunately for the Right, there is no such person as “Dan Bana” working as a spokesman for the NPS. There is however a “David Barna” who does, and he has said exactly those words:

    David Barna, a Park Service spokesman, said the agency did not conduct its own count. Instead, it will use a Washington Post account that said 1.8 million people gathered on the US Capitol grounds, National Mall, and parade route.

    “It is a record,” Barna said. “We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic … dc_record/

    The problem, though, is that Barna was not speaking in September of 2009 about the Tea Party. He was speaking in January of 2009 about the Obama Inauguration.

    So not only are the Tea Partiers fraudulently stealing old photographs to pump up their otherwise flaccid performance Saturday, they are also fraudulently stealing old quotations.”

    1. Sue,

      http://www.politijab.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2368&start=175#p67712

      A new “official quotation” regarding the crowd size at the DC Tea Party is going viral on the right wing blogs. It is invariably a repost of this paragraph or some minor variation:

      “The truth will out. Despite mainstream media attempts to characterize turnout as in the thousands, a spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, is quoted as saying “It is a record…. We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

      http://comments.americanthinker.com/read/1/419875.html
      http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/ … ment-17842

      “Unfortunately for the Right, there is no such person as “Dan Bana” working as a spokesman for the NPS. There is however a “David Barna” who does, and he has said exactly those words:

      David Barna, a Park Service spokesman, said the agency did not conduct its own count. Instead, it will use a Washington Post account that said 1.8 million people gathered on the US Capitol grounds, National Mall, and parade route.

      “It is a record,” Barna said. “We believe it is the largest event held in Washington, D.C., ever.”

      http://www.boston.com/news/nation/artic … dc_record/

      The problem, though, is that Barna was not speaking in September of 2009 about the Tea Party. He was speaking in January of 2009 about the Obama Inauguration.

      So not only are the Tea Partiers fraudulently stealing old photographs to pump up their otherwise flaccid performance Saturday, they are also fraudulently stealing old quotations.”

      Old news, my dear opposition commenter. I’ve already changed this posting to reflect what another commenter had already brought to this blog’s attention.

      -Phil

  15. Black Lion,

    This is another excerpt from A Soldier’s Perspective (CJ Grisham). I think it is a fair point. I have never seen CJ discuss the “birther” issue, but he certainly is in favor of tea parties to protest against our government. He is a member of our military.

    ***

    The MSM was focused on the 4-day old fake controversy surrounding Joe Wilson when he shouted that Obama had told a “lie.” Funny that this is a controversy since the President had just called many of those in the room and a majority of Americans that they were liars.

    “Some of people’s concerns have grown out of bogus claims spread by those whose only agenda is to kill reform at any cost. The best example is the claim, made not just by radio and cable talk show hosts, but prominent politicians, that we plan to set up panels of bureaucrats with the power to kill off senior citizens. Such a charge would be laughable if it weren’t so cynical and irresponsible. It is a lie, plain and simple.”

    Not a misunderstanding. Not an inaccurate interpretation. He called a lot of people liars right there. Right after he said that, he went to basically call those who read the bill and saw no provision preventing illegal immigrants from seeking health care under this liars as well. After being called liars twice, once specifically and once implicitly, Joe Wilson fired back and said “You lie!” And THAT is the controversy, not that the President used that EXACT same chamber where Pelosi wants to censure Wilson to call the American people and many in that rooms liars!

    http://www.soldiersperspective.us/2009/09/13/tea-party-post-show/

  16. Excerpt from A Soldier’s Perspective blog: (CJ Grisham)

    Now, you may ask why am I expending all this energy on numbers? It’s easy. There is a story about which NOT ONE media report has written. And it’s a first hand account that was sent to me yesterday.

    One of my roommates is a Volunteer for the event. She was put on Pennsylvania Ave and 13 St. At 10am she got calls from the Volunteers on the lawn that the police had closed the gates and weren’t letting anyone else in. She relayed this message to the senior Coordinator, who was with her, and they happened to be next to the Chief of Police (who had briefed them only hours before.) The Chief of Police argued and said that wasn’t possible because they would only lock the gates if that part of the lawn was full – and that that area held ONE MILLION people and there was no way we had one million people. My roommate said a few seconds later the Chief of Police got a call confirming that the gate was locked. As understood by the police, by 10am there were already 1 million people on the lawn.

    ABC, therefore, is totally incorrect in publishing on the Internet at 7:30pm today that there were “60,000 – 70,000.”

    If you would like to contact my roommate to talk to her about this, let me know. You may know someone else in the planning of the event who can give you the same account. A guy in our group is part of Alabama News Platoon. He’s interviewing her right now and will put an article out. We’re gonna send it to Fox. They, too, have been reporting tens of thousands – rather than millions.

    More at http://www.soldiersperspective.us/2009/09/13/tea-party-post-show/

  17. Not even close. BTW, would you mind posting a contact number for the spokesman for the National Park Service, Dan Bana, so this information can be verified.

  18. New York homes raided in terrorism probe
    http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSN1451768020090914

    “A man who identified himself as Amanullah Akbar, a 30-year-old taxi driver, said the FBI raided the apartment he shares with four other Afghan men…”

    Obama declares US not at war with Islam
    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97CVOMG0&show_article=1

    Barack Hussein Obama: “We seek broad engagement based upon mutual interests and mutual respect. …We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better, including my own country.”

  19. I see the UK has a rich Islamic heritage like the US… Do you think Abdulla Ahmed Ali is a “natural born citizen” of the UK?

    Four UK Muslims jailed for terror plot
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1251804571847&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    Obama addresses Muslims on Ramadan
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1249418668609&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

    “These rituals remind us of the principles that we hold in common, and Islam’s role in advancing justice, progress, tolerance, and the dignity of all human beings.”

  20. JeffM says:
    September 12, 2009 at 11:50 pm
    Unbelievable! I haven’t seen a crowd like this in DC since Earth Day 1990. And we all know what happened after that march.

    I don’t know what happened on Earth Day 1990. Fill me in because I didn’t find anything when I googled it.

  21. The sections below were taken from the article above. Over the weekend it seemed like Rep. Joe Wilson was a popular person for the people that were at the rally. A kind of hero because he happend to interrupt the President’s speach by shouting “you lie”.

    “Revenge for the now legendary Susan Roesgen incident via TV Newser. Watch to the end or else you’ll miss the crowd reaction when she asks about Joe Wilson.

    Update: To the great surprise of exactly no one, Wilson has now outraised opponent Rob Miller since Wednesday night’s ourburst.”

    It seems like Mr. Wilson has an interesting past. It seems like he is or was a member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, which is a pro Confederacy group. He was also one of the so called “gang of seven” that went against their party and voted against removing the Confederate flag from the State house.

    http://crooksandliars.com/david-neiwert/obama-heckler-joe-wilson-member-neo

    “Joe also has been a member of the Columbia World Affairs Council, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Sinclair Lodge 154, Jamil Temple, Woodmen of the World, Sons of Confederate Veterans, ….”

    “The flag came down that year after Republicans in both houses went for a compromise that would put it on Statehouse grounds at the Confederate Soldier’s monument. The “Magnificent Seven” of Senators who voted to keep the flag up included current Congressman Joe Wilson (who I served with in the 218th Infantry Brigade of the National Guard.) The campaign against people like Bauer and the other people who had changed their position on the flag in the legislature was called No Votes for Turncoats.”

    He has also be know to say the following…

    “Jackie Calmes points to the biography of Mr. Wilson in CQ’s “Politics in America,” which includes this line: “Wilson’s sharp and careless remarks sometimes land him in hot water.” One example listed was Mr. Wilson’s constant criticisms of Senator John Kerry during the Democrat’s presidential campaign, and even includes a reference to Mr. Wilson’s characterization of the news that Strom Thurmond had fathered a daughter with a black woman. Even after the longtime Republican senator’s family acknowledged the paternity, Mr. Wilson called the notion a “smear on the image” of Mr. Thurmond.”

    http://prescriptions.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/09/live-blogging-the-presidents-speech/#t21h32m

    The original comment was made because Rep. Wilson believed that the healthcare bill would provide coverage for illegal immigrants. According to politifact it disagrees….

    “We read all 1,000-plus pages of the health care bill and were struck by the fact that it is largely silent on health care for illegal immigrants. Keep in mind that experts estimated there were 6.8 million uninsured illegal immigrants in the United States in 2007, out of a total of 11.9 million illegal immigrants. Right now, there are laws on the books that require hospitals to treat severely ill people who arrive at the hospital, regardless of immigration status, and we didn’t see anything that would change those laws, either. Most illegal immigrants are also now excluded from Medicaid, the government-run health care for the poor. We didn’t see anything that would change that.”

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/joe-wilson/joe-wilson-south-carolina-said-obama-lied-he-didnt/

    Now some would say that this is “opposition research”. This is not. Just like some would like “full disclosure” for everything regarding President Barack Obama, the same criteria is appropriate for those in the public eye that are in opposition, like Rep. Wilson. Once we have all the information, then we can make an informed decision or form an informed opinion of an individual.

  22. Phil says:
    September 14, 2009 at 3:09 pm
    -Video-

    The time lapse video was edited and loops 3 times as the group marches up Pennsylvania Ave toward the Capitol. Advance it manually second by second and you will see it. It’s when the group leaves the park to march to the Capitol. Look several blocks up Pennsylvania as people fill the street. First you see people way up Pennsylvania Avenue, and then the blocks closest to the Capitol are empty again. You can see it in the cloud movement. There’s a jump when it loops.

    People took time out of their life to go to DC. When someone falsifies what actually happened, it takes away from their effort.

    1. siseduermapierda,

      People took time out of their life to go to DC. When someone falsifies what actually happened, it takes away from their effort.

      When you can demonstrate that anyone is falsifying anything about the DC protest, then I might entertain your assertion.

      On the contrary, I have said and will continue to say that “up to 2 million” individuals showed up throughout the day on Saturday to protest, and I have every reason to believe that the figure is absolutely well north of 50,000 individuals.

      So, until someone is willing to go on the record and say in no uncertain terms that they know what the actual number was and show why they can say that, my posting stays as it is.

      -Phil

  23. From US Today interview with FreedomWorks on Friday. Spokesman told US Today 30,000 people were signed up at the site as of Friday, and 450 buses scheduled.
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-11-tax-rally_N.htm

    FreedomWorks was expecting 30,000. They couldn’t have ever really believed that 1 million or even 100,000 showed. Excessive exuberance on the part of participants. FoxNews never reported anything but “tens of thousands”.

    30,000 is a decent turn-out for a rally in DC.

    1. siseduermapierda,

      From US Today interview with FreedomWorks on Friday. Spokesman told US Today 30,000 people were signed up at the site as of Friday, and 450 buses scheduled.
      http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-09-11-tax-rally_N.htm

      FreedomWorks was expecting 30,000. They couldn’t have ever really believed that 1 million or even 100,000 showed. Excessive exuberance on the part of participants. FoxNews never reported anything but “tens of thousands”.

      30,000 is a decent turn-out for a rally in DC.

      While I realize that a discussion must be had over the turnout numbers because the protest regarding individual freedoms and liberty is a strange one for statists to seriously consider, I think a mere glance at the time-lapse video near the top of this posting shows that there were clearly more than 30,000. Based on what folks have been saying and pictures around the Internet, one could easily add another zero to that figure and be comfortably low on the exact figure.

      -Phil

  24. I was there and while I can’t tell the difference between hundreds of thousands and a million or more, from the ground, I can certainly tell the difference between tens of thousands and hundreds of thousands.

    Easily, hundreds of thousands were there.

    I am so proud to have been one of them.

    Thanks Phil, for everything you do.

    Naught

  25. I don’t know how one could look at the photo above the USA Today image and believe that only 40,000 people were present throughout the day.

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