Stimulus Update: ***DO NOT*** Use Cars.gov (Unless You Don’t Care About Your Personal Files)
I have a number of things that I need to post regarding eligibility, but when I received an email from a concerned citizen about what the federal government is doing via an end-user license agreement by virtue of accessing the Cars.gov site, and realized that FoxNews’ Glenn Beck was reporting on the story, I wanted to help pass on the word and devote an entire posting to the issue.
Many of you may have already been aware of the federal government’s “Cash for Clunkers” program — that little piece of the so-called stimulus bill that authorized $1 billion to be used for approximately $4,500 towards trade-ins that was supposed to have lasted until October — and the sheer bureaucratic nightmare it has become.
If you haven’t, here’s a quick cut-and-paste from Drudge’s site on relevant links to bring you up to speed (you’ll notice that a by-product of the program is that car dealerships absolutely must completely disable the engine of the traded-in car — no matter how well it might otherwise drive — and then must contact or otherwise provide for a salvage yard to come pick up the vehicle to be otherwise incerated before they can be reimbursed by the federal government):
‘Clunkers’ Program Running Out of Cash…
‘If they can’t administer program like this, I’d be concerned about health insurance’…
UPDATE: HOUSE APPROVES $2B MORE…
GOV’T COMPUTERS CRASH IN RACE FOR ‘CLUNKER’ CASH…
SCHUMER SEEKS BILLIONS MORE…
But you haven’t seen anything yet. Check out the following YouTube video that explains the agreement to which you must consent before receiving full access to the site (I will admit to not having actually gone to cars.gov, but after seeing the following, I’m not sure what in the world would compell me or anyone else to do so, except for ignorance):
I’ll even spell it out for everyone:
“This applicationn provides access to the DoT CARS system. When logged on to the CARS system, your computer is considered a Federal government system and is the property of the U.S. Government. Any or all uses of this system and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, DoT, and law enforcement personnel, as well as authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign.” [emphases added]
For those of us in IT (Information Technology), end user license agreements are certainly nothing new (simply take a look at the virtual novel that, say, Microsoft throws at you every time you install Microsoft Office on your system) and will usually restrict you in your use of the software. Not only this, but it’s also true that if you use a VPN (Virtual Private Network) at your workplace and you’re using your office computer, you know (or should have reason to know) that (1) transmissions on that network can be monitored and/or recorded and that (2) what’s on your work computer can be accessed by the company.
To me, it wouldn’t even be that big of a deal if the language were very specific that only the federal Department of Transportation had access to files and what not; after all, I’m using their site, so they would theoretically have the authority to access a user’s transactions on their site.
However, that’s not what concerns me about the above. What concerns me is that the language includes the underlined, emboldened and italicized part. The access isn’t just controlled and authorized by the DoT; it’s conceivably observed by any agency, both domestic and foreign.
I think Mr. Beck and Ms. Guilfoyle described exactly what this means about your computer system well enough for me to not have to belabor that most pernicious of a point.
Instead, I will conclude with the following:
Maybe next time our dear elected federal officials will actually read the bills that come before them. And, if the majority in power is putting up encumbrance after encumbrance to try to stymie the process of reading the bills, it is absolutely in the minority’s best interest to pull out every parliamentary tactic they can in order to make sure that all of the American people are better served. To me, this includes walking off the floor, en masse in order that a quorum is not present sufficient enough to hold a vote.
This has got to stop.
And they want to take over the health insurance industry?
Update: From the above HotAir.com reference, check out this perfectly usable (until the federal government got a hold of it) Volvo being purposefully destroyed because of this program (a warning to mechanics and other car lovers, especially Volvo lovers — this will make you cry). Imagine instead of a car purposefully being put to death its your grandmother or grandfather being put to death by the federal government:
-Phil
Update: Pamela Gellar at AtlasShrugs has more.
Update: HotAir.com has a posting on this as well. While they insinuate somewhat that the above may not be as big of a deal as individuals like myself are framing the issue, my question is why would you go about taking the risk of government snooping in your computer if you don’t absolutely have to, or if more information has yet to be provided for this situation?
Twitter: @trsol -=- Facebook (TRSoL) -=- Facebook (Rightside Phil)
Photo courtesy Yahoo!
It was pointed out to me in a conversation today that perhaps the clunkers have an intended use. Under everyone’s radar, Japan was stockpiling scrap metal before the attack on Pearl Harbor.
Phil:
I already did.
http://www.cars.gov
HistorianDude,
Like I always say — show me a source that demonstrates conclusively that Mr. Beck lied and I’ll be happy to consider it.
-Phil
So, uh… Phil.
I was wondering… since this whole article turned out to be pretty much a Glen Beck lie… are you just gonna let it sit here without correction?
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm?
Umm. What idiot-Beck is looking at the site that DEALERSHIPS use submit for reimbursement. It is NOT for consumers, they can’t use if they want to.
The page the idiot-Beack is on is titled DEALER SUPPORT.
They are setting up the complete audit and evidence trail and insuring complete access to the dealership records in the event of fraudulent claim. Basically they are telling the dealership that you won’t be able to hide if anything if you submit false claims. The are including law enforcement so they can can go right into your system to obtain evidence. Every dealership agreed to this.
It is NO issue in the dealership world back in reality.
You should read the rules about the program. http://www.cars.gov/files/amendment.pdf
If the dealer gets reimbursed, the engine must be destroyed at the dealership and he has to certify the car was disabled. Your friends in the auto business are planning to get reimbursed, fake the paperwork that they disabled the engine and then sell the cars? Then your friends are breaking the law. Nice friends. And if you think that’s a clever idea to scam the American people then you are a very bad person.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=a1a286fa71fdf553681663b9f54e5663&rgn=div5&view=text&node=49:6.1.2.3.61&idno=49#49:6.1.2.3.61.3.7.1
In particular CFR 49 Sec 599.300
“To qualify for a credit under the CARS Program, a dealer must sell or lease a new vehicle that meets eligibility requirements to a purchaser, obtain a trade-in vehicle that meets eligibility requirements from the purchaser, satisfy combined fuel economy requirements for both the new and trade-in vehicles, disable the engine of the trade-in vehicle, satisfy the limitations and restrictions of the program, arrange for disposal of the trade-in vehicle at a qualifying disposal facility or through a qualifying salvage auction, and register and submit a complete application for reimbursement to NHTSA, demonstrating that it meets all the requirements of this part.”
earl,
At least we now know that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about.
Let’s just say that I have friends in the industry, both on the new car side and the used car side as well as the junkyard side. What you claim — that “ALL the traded in cars are going to scrapyards” — couldn’t be further from the truth. After all, even if the C4C program weren’t around, how do you substantiate the obvious fact (this doesn’t even take knowing anyone in the industry; simply driving by any car dealership shows this) that traded-in cars get parked on the used car lot at most dealerships?
Do yourself a favor and take your commentary off my site. This is absolutely ridiculous on your part.
-Phil
earl,
I think that if you don’t like how I manage my blog, you can go elsewhere.
-Phil
I just looked at cars.gov using my Linux machine to protect against any monkey business.
http://cars.gov does not resolve, so it was set up so that only http://www.cars.gov works.
From the site:
Consumers should expect that all information collected through the CARS Program will be kept confidential. Social Security numbers are not required for a CARS transaction.
Does the last sentence mean visitors, tourists, and “undocumented entrants” are eligible for the program?
Here is an idea since you feel that the government spending other peoples money is so stimulative, Why not just use all the acorn and census operatives on the payroll to stand on street corners and hand out hundred dollar bills 8 hours a day.(at least the money might get spent buying things instead of just lining a few pockets) Oh wait it would take 10,000 of them, handing out a 1000 of them a day, a few decades to even hand out that much money!
Instead of giving away our tax dollars for some people to exchange their five and ten year old Volvos and Subaro outback’s let use this money that we are just pitching in a hole anyway, and try to create some new jobs so people can actually earn enough money to actually buy new cars with the money they earn from making a decent wage?
This program is such a liberal, pie in the sky, feel good BS waste, that it makes me sick. My wife and I are stuck fixing and driving old 1990’s vehicles because we just can not afford to buy a new car. I thought about this program,so glad now that I didn’t log on, but my cars wont qualify, they get over 18 mpg. This farce is not cash for clunkers, its cash for non liberal approved vehicles.
Why are we destroying perfectly good cars and trucks so that some wackos can get that good, tingly, feeling that they are saving the planet. Those perfectly good cars and trucks could be donated to goodwill or the salvation army and could be helping out some poor family that has lost jobs and need an older, safe running vehicle to get to a new job.Is that not what democrats say they want to do, help the poor and downtrodden from the evil money grubbing conservatives?
Heck, you want to know what a real clunker is, take a peek at what I can afford to drive a 1991 chevy cavalier,or a 1998 ford escort. And they are wrecking cars like that volvo, Its a crime. and we are all paying to be robbed.
I own a clasic Volvo. A 1981 262C Bertone Coupe.
http://home.comcast.net/~ssewell29/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
How to Create a Crisis and Steal a Nation
By Aristotle the Hun, The Rev. Big Goon and Good Shepherd Sam
http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/02/how-to-create-crisis-and-steal-nation.html
Phil says:
“Scrapyards go out of business”
You don’t even know the process by which the cars are being disabled? ALL the traded in cars are going to scrapyards. It’s a boon to scrapyards and salvage yards in this country! If you understood the process, which has been described in every paper in the country, you would know the only part of the car that is permanently disabled is the engine, more specifically any part of the engine contacted by lubricating oil. The body parts, the electrical system, the cooling system, the battery, the wheels, the brakes, the interior etc etc, any part not contacted by lubricating oil can be salvaged as parts.
I think it is ironic that you repeatedly post Jacklyn Smith’s obsessive angry posts about the President’s privates but censored my question to the group about their knowledge of 3rd grade geography.
Since WWII there are many examples of extremely successful government programs:
- The Interstate Highway System
- The GI Bill
- The FDIC
- Rural Electrification
- Veterans Administration Health Program
- Head Start
- Social Security, which raised many seniors out of poverty.
( lots of you will say it should be ended, but I bet none of you will turn it down once you’re eligible)
- Safe drinking water
- The National Weather Service
- Public health system that has eradicated polio, cholera and small pox in this country.
“Glen Beck is lying.”
Imagine that!
“Jacqlyn Smith says:
August 1, 2009 at 1:54 pm
FOR EARL, BLACK LION AND ANYONE ELSE WHO DOUBTS LARRY IS TELLING THE TRUTH…..I DARE YOU TO ORDER HIS BOOK AND THEN SUE HIM FOR SLANDER AND LIES AGAINST YOUR FRAUD LEADER…..I DOUBLE DARE YOU….HERE IS THE INFO AND NOTICE THE FRAUD IS GETTING ONE FOR HIS BIRTHDAY!!! LOL!!
Post Larry’s new book to order
http://www.larrysinclair-0926.blogspot.com
He is sending one to BHO for his birthday!!”
Are you stalking Earl and Black Lion? This was just on another thread.
In the event of an EMP blast, all cars with electronic engine controls (i.e. fuel injection) will not work. This started in the early 90s. The only cars that will be unaffected by an EMP blast are those without electronic controls.
The peculiar nature of this law, mandating the destruction of perfectly good engines, is troubling. These engines may come in handy in time of crisis. Why would the government forcibly destroy people’s cars?
Jacqlyn Smith:
Why not triple dare us while you’re at it? Quadruple dare us? Quintuple dare us?
Why would we want to pay Larry Sinclair money when we have you here to tell us all about Obama’s privates for free?
sue,
The only thing more confusing is why individuals such as yourself continue to peruse sites like mine and then go about wondering why in the world we can’t better explain things to you according to your perspective and world-view on issues.
Most individuals who disagree with my view are statists. Generally speaking, they typically want as much government in their lives as possible. On the other hand, I am the complete opposite of that, and it is very unlikely that these opposing views will ever be reconciled.
Therefore, there is going to be at least some confusion on your part.
-Phil
earl,
The only thing more predictable is the tripe from individuals such as you and Mr. Obama who claim that a “success” is spending money. By that definition, everything the federal government has ever done in terms of spending other peoples’ money is a “success.”
I only hope that the dealers will eventually get compensated for putting their butts on the line, that consumers aren’t going to have to pony up $4,500 or more for the vehicles, that consumer credit scores won’t soon tank because of this debacle, and that junkyards will still stay in business after the fact that all traded-in vehicles must be immediately made unusable — hence unable to be resold for scrap.
Aren’t government programs great?
-Phil
earl,
If you did not read my explanation in the post, then that is your problem, not mine.
-Phil
You “patriots” confuse the heck out of me. You say you don’t think elected and appointed officials have any rights to privacy BUT totally go ballistic regarding your “right to privacy.” Heck, some of you patriots won’t even give basic info to a police officer claiming it is an “invasion of their privacy.”
Patriots also claim they oppose the Fairness Doctrine yet yell loudly (DEMAND) that they want equal time in the media to present their side of an issue. Example: Dr. Taitz RE: Rachel Maddow show.
No one is complaining about Cash for Clunkers but the right wing and here is the simple reason:
A Stimulus Project has put $1 BILLION into the economy in a single week! The program is so successful Democrats and Republicans enthusiastically voted (316-109) to add $2 Billion more to extend the program.
Successful Obama Project – Right Wing must Try to Undermine it.
So predictable. This “bureaucratic nightmare” foolishness is an invention. The only nightmare is in your imaginations.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20090731/pl_mcclatchy/3283255_1
This is what we are heading for if we do not stop these congressional crooks and Czars.
Whatever Glen Beck is looking at there, it is not http://www.cars.gov.
There are no applications at all accessible through cars.gov. Not for consumers, and not for dealers.
I just spent a good 20 minutes on the web page trying to find what he was looking at (let alone the statement you quote above that, in case you did not notice, he never actually shed at all) and it is not there.
Glen Beck is lying.
1. Why have you decided to post DO NOT use cars.gov without actually having looked at it yourself. Here is the privacy policy statement. I don’t know anything about them, but if you have experience with privacy policies, read it over and opine.
http://www.cars.gov/ click Privacy at bottom of home page takes you here: http://www.dot.gov/privacy.html
It looks like pretty innocuous stuff to me.
2. The irony of this is just thicker than syrup. Right wingers in an uproar about the government getting your personal information but everything about the birther movement is how to get into someone else’s personal information. Interesting how the perspective changes when the shoe is on the other foot.
3. Of course they are disabling the cars! One of the two major goals of the program is to get low gas mileage vehicles off the road by giving people a financial incentive to get a higher mileage vehicle. You can’t get the low gas mileage vehicles off the road if you turn around and sell them. The second main goal is to get money moving in the economy. This program is seen as a HUGE success for the Obama Administration.
FOR EARL, BLACK LION AND ANYONE ELSE WHO DOUBTS LARRY IS TELLING THE TRUTH…..I DARE YOU TO ORDER HIS BOOK AND THEN SUE HIM FOR SLANDER AND LIES AGAINST YOUR FRAUD LEADER…..I DOUBLE DARE YOU….HERE IS THE INFO AND NOTICE THE FRAUD IS GETTING ONE FOR HIS BIRTHDAY!!! LOL!!
Post Larry’s new book to order
http://www.larrysinclair-0926.blogspot.com
He is sending one to BHO for his birthday!!