We are ruled (Michelle’s word, not mine) by a fraud, a usurper, a foriegner. That never ends well. Check your history.

I too have researched this statement in the past and found that US citizens could travel to Pakistan in the 1980’s, but that is wasn’t recommended.

However, ‘rumor’ (rumor probably isn’t the best word–more towards fact) appears that Obama did not have a US passport prior to 2004/2006. Obama was clearly in Pakistan, as witnessed by friends, in the 1980’s. The question is how an adult US citizen travels out of the country to Indonesia and Pakistan without a US passport? Further, how did Obama travel to Indonesia in 1990/1991 with his wife without a US passport?

In 1981 the United States agreed to a sizeable military aid package to Pakistan, and in that year Pakistan placed two orders for F-16s, totaling forty jets. Also, the USAID was active in that country.

As for the school attendance issue, again, I’ve looked but never been able to find a source for the contention that Indonesia restricted education to citizens. From the 1960s there has been a vibrant expat community in Jakarta. Would appreciate a citation particularly to the appropriate Indonesian statute, that prohibits access to education.

As for racism, I have not seen or heard one black person who is not for Obama. They surely cannot be in love with him for his record, but this is only racism. I do not tolerate racism, but we sure have it from the black side.

People responsible for the desecration of the FLAG ought to be prosecuted. WHY ARE AMERICAN LAWS BEING SO DISREGARDED TODAY????
GOD HELP THE REAL AMERICANS.

Oh, and BTW. You know that Indonesian school record? The one that is used as proof of an adoption, that he was Muslim, etc.? That also gives his birthplace as Honolulu. Food for thought.

Indonesian law at the time states that an adopted child under the age of 21 can be granted citizenship PROVIDED that the granting of citizenship does not cause dual citizenship. That’s the only age requirement there.

You are right in that an adult can give up their US citizenship. However, we are not talking about an adult. By the time Obama was 19, he had lived in the United States for 9 years and his mother had divorced Lolo Soetoro. Since he couldn’t give up his US citizenship until 18 at the earliest under US law, you’re assuming he gave up his US citizenship, and his mothers soon-to-be ex husband then arranged for him to get Indonesian citizenship, even though he hadn’t lived in Indonesia since 1971 and was both resident AND going to college in the United States. Because that’s the only way he could have gotten Indonesian citizenship and an Indonesian passport, (and there’s no evidence he ever had anything other than a US passport)

Before 18, US law states that a minor US citizen cannot loose US citizenship, nor can an action of a parent take it away either. To cite the portions of the US Nationality Act of 1940.

“(Section 401): ‘A person who is a national of the United States, whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by: (a) Obtaining naturalization in a foreign state, either upon his own application or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, however, That nationality not be lost as the result of the naturalization of a parent unless and until the child shall have attained the age of twenty-three years without acquiring permanent residence in the United States:…..’ “

So that says that if his mother had taken Indonesian citizenship, (the Soetoro-Dunham divorce papers cite US citizenship and they were filed in the US), then Obama would have lost his US citizenship IF he stayed in Indonesia past the age of 23.

“(Section 407):

‘A person having American nationality, who is a minor and is residing in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who loses American nationality under section 404 of this Act, shall at the same time lose his American nationality if such minor has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, American nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of American nationality by the parent unless and until the child attains the age of twenty-three years without having acquired permanent residence in the United States.’“

Same thing here. And bear in mind that again, according to Indonesian law, Lolo Soetoro couldn’t have gotten Obama Indonesian citizenship unless Obama renounced his US citizenship AS AN adult between the ages of 18 and 21 – even if Obama had stayed in Indonesia instead of coming back at the age of ten.

The 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, amended the 1940 Nationality Act.

(Section 349a):

“From and after the effective date of this Act a person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by — (1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application, upon an application filed in his behalf by a parent, or duly authorized agent, or through the naturalization of a parent having legal custody of such person: Provided, That nationality shall not be lost by any person under this section as the result of the naturalization of a parent or parents while such person is under the age of twenty-one years, or as the result of naturalization obtained on behalf of a person under twenty-one years of age by a parent, guardian, or duly authorized agent, unless such person shall fail to enter the United States to establish a permanent residence prior to his twenty-fifth birthday: ….”

Here you see the age according to US law has gone up to 25.

(Section 355) :

‘A person having United States nationality, who is under the age of twenty-one and whose residence is in a foreign state with or under the legal custody of a parent who hereafter loses United States nationality under section 350 or 352 of this title, shall also lose his United States nationality if such person has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state: Provided, That, in such case, United States nationality shall not be lost as the result of loss of United States nationality by the parent unless and until the person attains the age of twenty-five years without having established his residence in the United States.”

Since he came back from Indonesia at ten and established residence in the US, those elements don’t apply either.

Bottom line. The only way Obama could have lost US citizenship is as an adult, not as a child. And it would not have been easy for him to gain Indonesian citizenship as an adult – his mother was no longer married to Lolo Soetoro and he wasn’t resident in Indonesia since 1971.

Lets look at it this way. Obama would have had to have a passport issued to him as an infant/child to get out of the country with his mother to go live in Indonesia correct? Where are the records of a US passport issued to him at this age? This goes under the theory that he was born in Hawaii, USA. If he were not born here he would not be required a US passport to travel but a passport from the country he was born in. i.e. Kenya/Britian, as Kenya was under British rule at that time.

To get in this country at age 10 he would have had a passport. What did he come into this country with? A US passport or an Idonesian one or a British one?

To travel outside the US he would have been required to use a passport, which one did he use? US, Kenay(as Kenya had declared it soverinty from British by then), British (if he was born in Kenya under British rule, he would/could still have British citizenship at that time), or Indonesian?

Also, if he were not born in the USA to begin with as things may suggest, then the laws of the USA do not apply with him or any type of adoption.

But I think a good avenue to follow is the passport issue. That alone could answer so many questions…but he has had those sealed also.

As for the Indonesian citizenship claim, there’s no way that Lolo Soetoro could have gotten Indonesian citizen for Barack Obama as a minor without violating US and/or Indonesian laws.

You see, under US law, (US Nationality Act of 1940, Sections 401 and 407, and the 1952 Immigration and Nationality Act, Title III, Chapter 3, Section 349(a) and 355), there is no way a minor can give up their US citizenship, nor is there anything a parent can do to remove it either. If the US citizen living overseas fails to repatriate or establish a US residence by their 23rd birthday, (25th after 1952), then they are considered to have given up their US citizenship. But such an action cannot take place while the US citizen is still a minor.

So, according to US law, there’s no way Barack Obama could have lost his US citizenship as a minor, and would have only lost it if his mother renounced her citizenship AND he lived outside the United States until after his 25th birthday.

Which leads into the other side of this, Indonesian law, The law in question is # 62/1958, passed on 29 July 1958. It’s interesting in that it’s based on jus sanguinis or parentage, rather than the US jus soli, place of birth. It does not recognize dual citizenship or no citizenship. It was in effect until 2006.

Indonesian citizenship is given to:

A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian couple;
A child born of the marriage of an Indonesian man and foreign woman — the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
A child born of the marriage of a foreign man and Indonesian woman, both of whom request Indonesian citizenship for their child — the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
A child born to an unmarried Indonesian woman, the status of which does not cause dual citizenship;
A child born in Indonesian territory that is not provided with citizenship by his or her parents;
A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents are unknown;
A child born in Indonesian territory whose parents have no citizenship.

In addition, it states that:

An infant whose father is a foreign citizen and mother is an Indonesian can obtain Indonesian citizenship if it is the wish of their parents. This citizenship, however, must not cause dual citizenship.

Foreigners who contribute to Indonesia — or for a specific reason — can be granted Indonesian citizenship by the President with the consent of the House of Representatives.

Note the part I bolded: “if the process does not cause dual citizenship”. In othe words, an adoptive child would only gain Indonesian citizenship if the process does not cause dual citizenship.

And, according to US law at the time, there is no way for a minor to renounce his or her citizenship before their 21st birthday.

In addition, an Indonesian citizen can lose their nationality if they live overseas for a consecutive period of five years without declaring their will to remain an Indonesian national. Barack Obama lived in Indonesia from 1967 (six years old) to 1971 (ten years old), and then lived in the United States from that point forward.

Which means there is no way Lolo Soetoro could have ever legally had Indonesian citizenship granted to Barack Obama even if he DID adopt him. Lolo Soetoro and Stanley Ann Dunham divorced in 1980 according to papers filed in Hawaii. Barack Obama would have been 19 at that point, and had lived outside of Indonesia for 9 years. Meaning by the point Obama could theoretically renounce his US citizenship, there was no way he could have gained Indonesian citizenship because his mother’s marriage to Lolo Soetoro was null and void.

Bottom line. Neither Barack Obama or his mother could renounce his US citizenship while still a minor, due to US law. Lolo Soetoro, even if he did adopt Barack Obama, could not have arranged for Indonesian citizenship for him without violating Indonesian law. And by the point Obama was old enough to legally renounce his US citizenship if he wanted to, he had lived in the US for over 10 years and his mother and Lolo Soetoro were divorced.

So not only has there never been any credible proof of Indonesian citizenship, (and remember, that school record *also* says he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii), but there’s no way he could have ever been given Indonesian citizenship though Lolo Soetoro without violating Indonesian law.